Captain America Origin: Scrawny thin soldier or art student?

[chiefchirpa]

I don't like the way the origin tells of an overeager art student gets pick by the SuperSoldier Program just because he is patriotic. A lot of people those days could be very eager to fight Hitler, but do they have the skills? SuperSoldier serum only instilled physical upgrades, not smarts and skills. He should have proven to have some skills and ingenuity first before being selected as a candidate.

My take for the Movie: Steve Rogers is a very slim army runner who has one of kind of accurate throwing skills and the best chess player in his company. Rogers has the skill all along by himself. He get bullied everytime because of this gift. His commanders notice this and call on Rogers to join the program.

How about it?

 

[Spider-Fan]

No, he has to be a thin soldier. Remember, he joined during a patriotic period. Him trying to enlist is more realistic to the time.

 

[warren_sparta27]

all i care about is that this film actually does get made in the very near future, and it's the best Marvel movie ever made, otherwise i don't mind too much.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Why can't he be a soldier that's also an art student?

 

[CaptainCanada]

I prefer he be a weak artist who tries to enlist but is rejected for physical reasons; it establishes his desire to serve his country in spite of all his medical problems and poverty.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What is his reason for joining as an art student or runner? It isn't as strong. I think them rejecting him gives him better motivation to undergo the experiment.

Plus, I don't want to see Cap making paintings in sequels.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think the overall idea is that he's an art student who got rejected, and thus undergoes the experiment.

He joins because he feels patriotic and that he could do something in the war cause.

Which is why I think they need to "modify" the origin somewhat (I propsed my idea in the above post).

I think Cap's patriotism needs to be in full swing when he undergoes the experiment. If his feelings toward America are already dwindling, then that makes his disatisfaction with today's world less extreme and interesting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think having his patriotism dwindle in WWII is against the character. He sacrificed his life for this country. He was a true patriot up until the end (which turned out not to be his end, but he gave his life no less). The thing with Steve is he is the strongest minded person around, but he was trapped in a weaklings body.

I don't think he should question his patriotism until the modern day. Cap reflects the American attitude. In WWII, Americans were more than willing to enlist and fight (because of Pearl Harbor). Today, people are not willing to do so, and question our reason for fighting. The same should apply to Cap, with him eventually accepting today's world and fighting for it.

I think it is a stronger message this way, and more reflective of the time periods.

I am very familiar with Bane (read Knightfall), also. However, I do not see Bane and Cap being any similar other than being weaklings getting powers.

Captain America is a great character, and I think him being a rejected enlister is much more true to the character and time period in which he became Captain America.

 

[Cadetak4712]

I know I'm going to take some flack for this but I don't think Capt. should be a skinny kid trying to enlist. I just don't find it realistic to see a skinny kid turn into a body builder overnight because of a serum. When he enlists I think he should be thin or lean build and maybe the reason he can't get into the army is because he has some kind of condition(something small like asthma) that makes it impossible for him to enlist. Then have the serum cure him of the disease and have him build up his frame over a rapid but not instant time frame.

I just don't want to see a sequence like in Spider-man where the hero instantly recieves a perfect body instantly.

 

[Majik1387]

Steve Rogers is born on July 4, 1917 in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, New York City, to Irish immigrants Sarah and Joseph Rogers.[15] By the early 1940s, before America's entry into World War II, Rogers is a tall (6 ft 2 in) but scrawny fine arts student specializing in illustration. Disturbed by the rise of the Third Reich, Rogers attempts to enlist, only to be rejected due to his poor constitution. A U.S. Army officer looking for test subjects offers Rogers the chance to serve his country by taking part in a top-secret defense project — Operation: Rebirth, which seeks to develop a means of creating physically superior soldiers. Rogers volunteers for the research and, after a rigorous selection process, is chosen as the first human test subject for the Super-Soldier serum developed by the scientist "Dr. Reinstein,"[16][17] later retroactively changed to a code name for the scientist Abraham Erskine.[18]

What's wrong with this origin? I see no need to change it. I don't even read his comics and this is good to me.

 

[deathshead2]

I think it should be some cripple kid. Like his legs don't work very well so he wheres a metal brace on them. You know from polio or something. The gov has alot of people inlist for the program alot of top miltiray school people sigh up and then this cripple kid. But they decided to have the cripple get the formula just in case it might not work. But to there surprise it works.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Why can't he be a soldier that's also an art student?

Can.

But he needs to be a soldier first when gets assigned to the supersoldier program. See below.

 

[chiefchirpa]

I prefer he be a weak artist who tries to enlist but is rejected for physical reasons; it establishes his desire to serve his country in spite of all his medical problems and poverty.

Here lies the problem:

SuperSoldier serum doesn't give Steve Rogers a tactical genius mind and his legendary accurate throwing skills. SS serum makes Rogers stronger, durable, run faster but it doesn't increase the subject's intelligence. Now for the US Army to pick the right candidates, it is better to have the candidates show promising inherent talents because as I said before, SS serum doesn't create the man's talent as it only improves the guy's physical quality.

Patriotism is just one of the qualities needed for a Captain America, but it's not all. What makes Captain America survives for another day is his smart and skill, not blind Zeal to fight the Nazi. That's what Rogers has along since he's born and the Army Generals should notice this in the line of duty (think Robocop).

 

[chiefchirpa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America



Having that... I would change the origin some.

To me, Steve Rogers is a slightly scrawny enlisted soldier, who has suffered some rigors of war, and has become weak and torn down. His patriotricness is wearing down and the war effort seems to be a waste of time.

He is then captured by the opposition, as a prisoner of war. He is practically starved to death and beaten down like a rat. His mind is becoming tortured and his body is showing the marks of war.

He is rescued by other soldiers after that town is liberated.

His family is never told of this rescue.

He is put into "Operation: Rebirth," a program designed to take soldiers and using a special "Super Soldier Serum," turn them into muscular men of superior strength and speed.

As I said before, I agree that Rogers should be in the US Army before he goes into the SuperSoldier program. This is a Top Secret, high level US Arny project whose experiment should likely be given to a PROVEN, battle tested subject: a soldier. Rogers is an exceptional soldier who likes to draw with highly accurate throwing arm and a knack to read the enemy's movement. However, because of his frail constitution (add asthmatic condition if you want), he's only given the position of a runner or supply coordinator. I don't want him to get captured though to prove that he's skilled enough to evade the enemy. His platoon commander notices his skill and he's given the opportunity to join the SuperSoldier program.

If Rogers is already in the Army:
1. Agrees with the fact that most of top secret US Army subjects are their own soldiers.
2. He doesn't need basic Army training after injected by the Serum, and ready for a Mission ASAP
3. He's already well versed in battle tactics and Army chain of commands.
4. More soldiers knew and admire him. He's not just one of the guys who gets luck out of the draw, but he earns it through his proven skills and intelligence.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Oh yeah, I don't want Rogers to lose Hope, Patriotism and Zeal during the war, even though perhaps his platoon almost gets wiped out by an Elite SS force commanded by Red Skull.

His army commanders also notice his strong sense of morality and justice other than his combat skills. Not gonna happen if you just fish people out from the street and given test papers on morality to determine if he's a good person.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't like the idea of him being a soldeir before the experiment. I like the idea of him being to weak, but his will to serve is strong enough to where he will do anything to help. He is a strong, noble man in the body of a weakling. It is much more interesting, and a metaphor that even the weakest of individuals can be strong.

It is a much stronger message. There is no reason to mess with Captain America's origin. It is fine as is, and doesn't need updated.

 

[chiefchirpa]

I don't like the idea of him being a soldeir before the experiment. I like the idea of him being to weak, but his will to serve is strong enough to where he will do anything to help. He is a strong, noble man in the body of a weakling. It is much more interesting, and a metaphor that even the weakest of individuals can be strong.

A strong will doesn't do much if the guy doesn't have the smarts and skill. It's more realistic that he has something special, yet hindered to achieve greatness because he has a frail body. Realism, you ask? This is a comic book movie. Well, movie audiences come in every form and some are not just comic book enthusiasts that will readily believe everything fed to them. Why would a joe fine arts student from out of nowhere has the knack of throwing a shield accurately, has a tactical genius mind and can command other soldiers with authority?

 

[Spider-Fan]

A strong will doesn't do much if the guy doesn't have the smarts and skill. It's more realistic that he has something special, yet hindered because he has a frail body. Realism, you ask? This is a comic book movie. Well, movie audiences come in every form and some are not just comic book enthusiasts that will readily believe everything fed to them. Why would a joe fine arts student from out of nowhere has the knack of throwing a shield accurately, has a tactical genius mind and can command other soldiers with authority?

I am not asking for realism, I am asking for being true to the time period. The way people were back then. Remember, he is a man of the era, and should be treated as such. Anyway, he would be trained once he got the powers. Cap's strength is his will. It always has been. Part of the program should be training him to use his powers and the shield. Not just the experiment.

Rogers does have something special, and that is an unyielding will. That is what I don't think people are getting. You want him to be a soldier to give him something special, but he already has it and could be trained after. Skill can be attained, as can knowledge. Will is something that can't, however. You either have it, or you don't. That is what makes Steve special. He has more will than anyone else. He is a man that will stand up to Thanos (with the Infinty Gauntlet) by himself.

It is more true to the character of Captain America to do it the comic way. There is nothing wrong with it, and it doesn't need an update.

 

[DawnWarrior]

I think having Steve rejected for being too scrawny is pretty important. The main sticking point here seems to be how to establish realistically his unmatched skills on the battlefield. I'm not sure how to do that, but I agree that it should be in there somehow.

This part of Captain America's life is a little hazy for most of us, just like the training period of Bruce Wayne's life before he became Batman. This could be an opportunity for the filmmakers to do something brilliant and inventive, like Chris Nolan and Dave Goyer did with Batman Begins.

 

[Artistsean]

I say make Rogers a young scrawny enlisted soldier who happens to also be a fine artist. Or Have him be a scrawny artist who enlists.
It gives his character more definition. Makes Rogers not just a soldier and nothing more, shows he is also creative and had a life and personality before becoming Captain America.
I say keep it in, it rounds out his character.

Wish they would have shown that side of him more in the comics too.
Could have shown Captain America and Colossus taking a painting class together.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Yeah, I think in Cap's Civil War issue of New Avengers, you see him trying to paint and it was sort of jarring for me because that part of him is used so rarely (like never).