Captain America: The Winter Soldier - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 1

Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by Thread Manager, Apr 4, 2014.

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  1. Infinity9999x Registered

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    No problem man. I've been in similar situations. I never got the love for Spider-man 2, even though most people did. I still have a lot of issues with that film as a Spider-man film, but I was able to realize that as a movie on it's own it's pretty good.

    Another thing I liked at TWS was that it took risks. I've liked all the Marvel films since the first Iron Man. While some of them have been a bit lackluster, none of them were what I would consider bad. But I was started to get a little annoyed with some of them because they all felt very safe. They didn't take many risks. The first Iron Man did, and I think Avengers did, but besides that they were very cookie-cutter. TWS actually shook up the Marvel world a bit, which was nice to see.
     
  2. Axl Van Sixx Comrade

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    Nice! :up: Hopefully my spoiling that major plot twist for you in the BvS forum didn't affect your enjoyment of it too much.
     
  3. Loki882 Registered

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    Not really, you've still got the other fantastic performances, the tight narrative, the masterful tension and atmosphere, and amazing visuals. So basically, Ledger wasn't everything to that movie.
     
  4. Whiskey Tango Registered

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    Sorry, I don't feel the same way. I know it must be frustrating but I hope you can find a way to deal with it.
     
  5. titansupes Registered

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    You are correct.
     
  6. Venus i used to have nothing, then i got this family.

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    When I watched the trailer, I wasn't that interested. But when I had to go to the cinemas with family friends, I had to choose this movie over the others. Boy did I make the right choice. This movie was a great action film and Stan Lee's cameo is the icing on the cake. One of my faves. :D
     
  7. scatterax Presented in Technicolor

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    It's because the quality of the movie doesn't quite sink in the first time you watch it. At least for me. It came out at a time when everyone was hyped off of iron man and tdk, which were two sides of the same coin, (one being more serious, the other more fun) and people were expecting more of the same, even though the hero was totally different. Instead of a guy taking the on the world head on we got a more personal journey of a man hiding from the world and what he has to give up to stay hidden. A bit more mature IMO.and the action only gets better with repeat viewings.

    I like CA:TWS a bit better though, because I feel it's both instantly enjoyable and better over time. in this movie it's still him taking on the world, but he's a bit less sure of himself because he feels like an outsider still trying to figure out how to relate to everyone around him. This makes him a more courageous hero because he doesn't hesitate to do what he feels needs to be done dispute his self doubt. While he might come across as stuck in his ways to some viewers cap isn't a true narcissist like batman or tony. Which makes the viewers better able to relate to the character.
     
  8. scatterax Presented in Technicolor

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    Stan's cameo was ok in this, but he's had much better.TIH, Iron man 1 and 2, both fantastic 4 movies and the Spider-Man movies come to mind.
     
  9. PunyGod Astronomer

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    You *really* don't want to play that game...

    1. How did the Joker rig an entire hospital for demolition without anyone knowing.
    2. How did the Joker get 100 barrels of explosives onto two ships without anyone knowing.
    3. How could the police not have a few cars scouting ahead and closing roads for the convoy (they do this for freaking funeral processions in real life).

    Those are just the ones I remember. And you don't even want to get started on TDKR...

    I'm not trying to say this makes them bad films. I'm saying that when you start nitpicking realism in a superhero movie you are just going down an endless rabbit hole.
     
  10. scatterax Presented in Technicolor

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    Yeah if you're going to compare TDK to CA:TWS on a technical level TWS wins for editing alone. I like the TDK better for its characters and story, but if someone thinks it's more realistic simply for the lack of super powers then that someone is missing the big picture.
     
  11. DorkyFresh Sum Dum Goy

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    Thing is I'm not playing a game and I'd rather not pit TDK against WS because I don't feel they're on the same level. But if you insist, 1 & 2 can easily explained because the Joker had cronies EVERYWHERE. It's not like he did everything by himself.

    Besides, I know that Marvel's movies aren't supposed to feel as realistic as Nolan's Batman films. Marvel's movies are kind of tongue in cheek/winkwinknudgenudge but the sense of verisimilitude in WS wasn't consistent enough for my liking. I don't need everything to feel real but I would like everything to be believable within the cinematic world.
     
  12. The Guard Registered

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    He was dressed as a nurse, and no one was the wiser. He had obviously done it prior to issuing his threat somehow. Not an impossibility.

    Same thing as above. Hard to believe, but not impossible. What's worse about this is that the soldiers never checked the ferries after a terrorist threat. Bad soldiers.

    If there had been such, they were probably horribly murdered, like most of the convey members.

    Anyway, I don't think Dorky was talking about strict realism so much...in terms of "now that's not even possible..."

    I think he's referring more to the, shall we say, somewhat clichéd and convenient nature of the "escapes" and some of the plot elements that allowed people to get out of a seemingly impossible/dangerous situation, elements that just showed up out of nowhere (wing tech, I'm looking at you) VS say, something that had been set up previously in the film, was part of the worldbuilding, or had been tangibly developed previously in the franchise.
     
    #987 The Guard, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  13. marcvader Lurker #1

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    Well actually the device Fury uses for his escape is set up in Agents of Shield.
     
  14. Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

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    In TDK, Joker's plan doesn't make much sense (it's explained why in the cinemasins video) that doesn't make it any less enjoyable.
     
  15. hafizbat Registered

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    Oh, similar to Bruce and Rachel surviving a fall from a skyscraper in TDK right? Or Batman and Gordon being totally fine walking on the ice that they had previously shown people falling into in mere seconds?
     
    #990 hafizbat, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  16. Whiskey Tango Registered

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    Jokers plan relied on far too many contrived coincidences and what if scenarios to be even remotely plausible. He's a great villain but there is nothing NOT comic book-y about his entire shtick in that film. And yet TWS is being derided for 'cliched and convenient' escapes and plot elements and for lacking verisimilitude? Please. :whatever:

    Anyway, enough about TDK, there's a whole subforum around here dedicated to Nolan worship.
     
  17. Anita18 DANCE FOR ME, FUNNY MAN!

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    Yuppers.

    Sometimes the suspension of disbelief is a bit too much, but that's usually in combination with other, more blatant weaknesses in the movie. For me, it usually takes an unbelievable character motivation that's shoe-horned in for convenience. I'm looking at you, SM3...

    Do the details of how Cap and BW escape the bunker (or how Bruce gets back to Gotham in TDKR or how Joker gets those barrels onto the ferries) REALLY matter for the story?

    TWS is earnest (as is TDK) and its strength is not in the plausibility of its plot.
     
  18. DorkyFresh Sum Dum Goy

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    Yay! Someone gets me :)

    Batman has the power to glide with his cape. Why is it unbelievable that they could survive that fall? I'm more concerned that they didn't show the Joker leaving Bruce's place.

    These are not from TDK, but from TDKR which isn't regarded as nearly the masterpiece that TDK is. Besides, I don't see why you guys keep bringing up problems about Nolan's Batman rather than telling me/us why the criticisms about Winter Soldier are unwarranted.

    Yes...because Winter Soldier's convenient plot holes are glaring, obvious, and momentarily bring me out of the cinematic world that they are portraying.

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    Actually, it does. How am I supposed to believe these characters are in real danger if I know that they can easily escape from near capture with minimal trace? Not only that, but again...it momentarily brings me out of the cinematic universe.
     
    #993 DorkyFresh, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  19. Whiskey Tango Registered

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  20. Tony Stark Armored Avenger!

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    To me it's more, how does a guy blow up a hospital, hold two ships filled with explosives and the full US government not get involved?

    As you said, don't get me started on TDKR.
     
  21. The Guard Registered

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    No, because again, we're not arguing the physics of a superhero movie. We're talking about the use of plot elements structurally within the film.

    Whereas some of the plot elements in Cap come out of pretty much nowhere (Zola now a computer, the Falcon's wing tech, Widow undercover, etc) and are kind of played for surprise/shock value more than anything. I don't think you can argue that's really been the case with similar elements in the Nolan Batman movies.

    Batman and Rachel surviving that fall, while requiring some serious suspension of disbelif, because while we know the physics of it all are absurd after witnessing it visually, has nontheless previously been set up via an entire key sequence in the franchise that Batman has a glider cape that can slow his fall or allow him to glide. The concept of a glider cape doesn't just come out of nowhere there. Nor is that the first time we see it in the film.

    Batman and Gordon were fine walking on the ice because Gordon didn't go out far enough on the ice to fall through, as evidenced by the fact that...he doesn't fall through. And Batman is basically a ninja, who actually trained on ice in BATMAN BEGINS.
     
    #996 The Guard, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  22. Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

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    The point most of us are trying to make is that every CBM has problems, but we suspend our disbelief and enjoy them anyway. People are using Nolan's Batman movies as examples of great CBMs where a lot of ridiculous things occur.

    TDK is more comic-booky to me than TDKR strangely enough.
     
  23. Whiskey Tango Registered

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    The Joker’s plans rely on so many coincidences and so much knowledge that he couldn’t possibly have that they all stick out like a gaggle of sore thumbs upon re-watches. He knows what streets cop cars are going to turn down during chases, what direction helicopters are going to come from, which boat guards are going to evacuate prisoners with. He sets up a scheme to get himself arrested that he couldn’t possibly have known would end in his arrest, and then performs an escape that relies on his ludicrously being left alone with one guard, void of restraints. The list goes on.

    http://filmschoolrejects.com/featur...-fervor-surrounding-the-dark-knight-nadam.php
     
  24. Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

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    Did Batman Begins also explain how it's possible for someone like Two-Face to be alive and talk clearly?
     
  25. Anita18 DANCE FOR ME, FUNNY MAN!

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    In TWS, the first improbable escape from a car is a pleasant surprise and a true escape from real danger. When the second improbable escape from a car happens, our protagonists are already in good hands with Maria Hill. At that point, we already know they're going to be okay.

    As for the bunker escape, I don't think watching Cap fight it out with the mercs at that point would have added anything to the plot. The point of the scene was that they were betrayed by SHIELD, nearly killed, and hunted ruthlessly by the people they once worked side-by-side with. It's one thing to try and get the drop on Cap in an elevator, it's quite another to hunt him down like a wounded animal.

    The big confrontation would come later.
     
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