Chadwick Boseman is Black Panther! - Part 5

[Silvermoth]

If Andy Serkis is Klaw, do you think we'll see him in this film as the main villain, or at least one of the main villains (the other hopefully being Man Ape)?

I'm hoping he's not the main villain. I want to see him as a winter soldier type character with Moses magnum being the puppet master

 

[RockSP]

Yeah, I'd have to imagine that Klaw is the villain of a first Black Panther movie. It's hard to imagine otherwise.

Agreed.

 

[Six]

With Marvel Studios doing a press event on tuesday, I wonder if they will announce their future slate of films, Black Panther being one of them. Now would be the perfect time. Everyone is buzzing about Andy Serkis's character in AoU, DC just announced their slate, etc

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm hoping he's not the main villain. I want to see him as a winter soldier type character with Moses magnum being the puppet master

Tom Selleck for Moses Magnum! He can be Magnum P.M.

 

[Mike Murdock]

How many Black Panther movies do you guys envision? A trilogy? Or more like one solo film, then just a key Avenger?

I tend to always envision a trilogy until shown otherwise. I'd envision more, but, with the exception of Thor, things haven't quite worked that way. But, if Guardians can get a sequel, Black Panther can certainly get two films. And I don't see any reason why three is hard to believe.

That's in addition to him being an Avenger.

 

[The Guard]

Historically, what is Black Panther's role in The Avengers?

Is he more of a leader, or just a member of the team, or an occasional member, a la Aquaman?

 

[Dark Raven]

He has leadership capabilities but hasn't historically been the leader of the Avengers. Everyone's an occasional member after they've served for a while, so that's not really saying much.

 

[terry78]

He's always kind of been there as the guy that's the contrarian or the aloof one. Like he'll assist with whatever trouble is happening but makes it clear that his loyalty is first and foremost to Wakanda, and only helps out by extension of the possibility of their being endangered.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

How many Black Panther movies do you guys envision? A trilogy? Or more like one solo film, then just a key Avenger?

I would like to see a trilogy, one that roughly follows the model set by Captain America. First film set (at least primarily) in Wakanda, followed by an Avengers film, a solo sequel set primarily in the United States, another Avengers film, and a third film that does something totally different.

 

[tamron]

I say to Marvel to look for an UNKNOWN.

Someone like Tongayi Chirisa.

I know it's HIGHLY unlikely at this point, but until we get official casting news, I'm gonna keep banging the drum. He'd be fantastic as good and natural a fit as Hemsworth is to Thor, imho.

BP deserves nothing less than a trilogy.

 

[Silvermoth]

Historically, what is Black Panther's role in The Avengers?

Is he more of a leader, or just a member of the team, or an occasional member, a la Aquaman?

As well as the stuff mentioned above he also has a fantastic rivalry with iron man which I would love to see explored more.

Yeah that press conference sounds intriguing doesnt it? It could either be something a bit underwhelming like a new theme park ride or digital platform or it could be the big one, an announced movie slate and maybe even a casting announcement for doc strange and (hopefully) the big guy himself black panther!

 

[seahammer]

I appreciate the response, guys. I've always loved T'Challa as a character, but for me he's always been one of those characters who I know of, and I'm aware of his mythology, etc., but haven't read in depth... if you know what I mean.

I'd hope for a franchise, he would bring a unique brand of espiniogue film that would stand out.

I tend to always envision a trilogy until shown otherwise. I'd envision more, but, with the exception of Thor, things haven't quite worked that way. But, if Guardians can get a sequel, Black Panther can certainly get two films. And I don't see any reason why three is hard to believe.

That's in addition to him being an Avenger.

I would like to see a trilogy, one that roughly follows the model set by Captain America. First film set (at least primarily) in Wakanda, followed by an Avengers film, a solo sequel set primarily in the United States, another Avengers film, and a third film that does something totally different.

This was helpful. Does anyone else have an idea of what kind of stories they'd like to see in a trilogy? I know he's had a bit of a rivalry with Namor, and that would be neat and unique to see in a BP 2 or 3 IMO. I know his relationship with Storm was headline news, but since that's off limits, what other big stories/conflicts/dynamics should be adapted?

Like to see more than one. Don't really know enough about his comic stories though.
Maybe they can do some teamup and crossovers. Cap/BP Hawkeye/BP etc...

^This is where I am, sadly. I have read some stand alone issues of his solo titles, but never a full run or anything. I've mostly encountered him in Avengers books or guest appearances in other books ad in other media (games, cartoons). Looking at his entry on Comicvine, I realize there is a lot more out there that I haven't read than I realized.

I could easily see a franchise because there have been quite a few really good runs or runs where they were limited in their time because of what they could do but there's still some good ideas there

Any suggestions for where to start if I wanted to get caught up/read some definitive stories (when I find the time)?

 

[Dark Raven]

As well as the stuff mentioned above he also has a fantastic rivalry with iron man which I would love to see explored more.

Yeah that press conference sounds intriguing doesnt it? It could either be something a bit underwhelming like a new theme park ride or digital platform or it could be the big one, an announced movie slate and maybe even a casting announcement for doc strange and (hopefully) the big guy himself black panther!

Any rivalry has only really been in later years. Black Panther, during his classic stint on Avengers, and during the Bronze Age of Marvel, wasn't really portrayed as a techie guy and didn't have any rivalry. There was a rivalry between Iron Man and Cap, particularly after IM's stint as chairman just before the whole GOTG/ Korvac incident, but Shellhead and Panther seemed to get along just fine.

Half the time though, you didn't even get the impression that Panther was King of Wakanda. He certainly didn't go round with a regal cape or pronounced claws, and it's questionable whether his costume was even made of some kind of Vibranium weave.

Look at this:

Does that big tear in his costume seem like something that should happen to someone with a Vibranium-enhanced costume if they just throw a flaming pitchfork at it? I think back then it must've been just ordinary cloth.

 

[Lilbaz]

Hope if they do a couple of sequels they keep him mostly in Africa, with only short trips to US or America. Being a leader you can make it a bit more political. Talking to the UN, other leaders etc... haven him be a cross between Nelson Mandela and James Bond.
Have him stop wars, assassinations etc...

 

[Mike Murdock]

I could see a film with him traveling. He does do that quite a bit. The problem with keeping him in Wakkanda is Wakkanda is isolated and fairly secure. To me, it comes off a bit like Asgard. Maybe just have him come to the United Nations or something like that would be sufficient.

I'd like the first film to be Wakkanda-heavy just because the audience hasn't seen it before. After that, there's no reason they can't explore other places.

 

[Lilbaz]

I could see a film with him traveling. He does do that quite a bit. The problem with keeping him in Wakkanda is Wakkanda is isolated and fairly secure. To me, it comes off a bit like Asgard. Maybe just have him come to the United Nations or something like that would be sufficient.

I'd like the first film to be Wakkanda-heavy just because the audience hasn't seen it before. After that, there's no reason they can't explore other places.

Not Wakkanda. But Africa. The continent is so vast. Bigger than the US, China and Europe put together. Bring in some Indiana Jones elements/Tarzan elements etc... Will give BP a unique flavour in the Marvel universe.

 

[E-Man]

If you guys are interested in the Panther, the best story to get into him is The Client. It basically breaks down who he is from the perspective of a bureaucrat who has to document everything that T'Challa does when he comes to America to investigate the death of a child related to one of his charities. It ties up the history of Black Panther very well.

There is also Reginald Hudlin's Who Is the Black Panther story, but....let's just say that Hudlin has a lot of detractors for a reason. I'm one of them.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I'm familiar with Hudlin's story through the BET cartoon. If that's faithful, it's not exactly subtle in many ways. But I do think it at least it's a good quasi-reboot and introduction to the character.

I don't know how much you've read overall. Would you say Priest's work is the best of Black Panther? Most definitive? Any silver age stories worthwhile? Actually, did he have his own series? I'm mostly familiar with him appearing in Fantastic Four.

 

[DrCosmic]

I'm hoping he's not the main villain. I want to see him as a winter soldier type character with Moses magnum being the puppet master

That'd be a weird reversal for me. Not that Moses Magnum can't be a led villain, but he seems inherently less mastermind-y than Klaw.

How many Black Panther movies do you guys envision? A trilogy? Or more like one solo film, then just a key Avenger?

I envision two specifically, but I'd like trilogy.

The first one is the "War for Vibranium," where we see what makes T'Challa Black Panther and pretty much just explore his abilities and motivations. This would naturally have Klaw as a main villain. It can feature M'Baka or Moses Magnum as a secondary villain in alliance with Klaw, or you can use a mercenary crew not unlike in Who Is the Black Panther storyline, which is a good storyline to adapt, minus a little slang and political 'take thats.' You also may want to consider having some heroes be the secondary "villains" and having someone like Hawkeye or even Hulk playing the role the Fantastic Four played in Black Panther's first appearance, an idea/scene which has been adapted in Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Ultimate Avengers 2 cartoons where Black Panther whoops our heroes. In fact, other heroes jobbing for him was one of the biggest innovations Black Panther had going for him. That needs to be a big part of his first appearance. It is necessary for him to have that "sixth Ranger" type of appeal. After winning this war T'Challa should be established as an all around badarse superhero and master of Vibranium and it's applications.

The second is the "War for Wakanda," where we sort of get gritty with what Wakanda is and is not and we have our messiest political storyline. This is where combat mastermind and archnemesis Eric Killmonger comes in to play. The secondary villains are largely unimportant. Essentially, you are adapting the groundbreaking Rage of the Black Panther storyline that kind of invented the long-form comic book storytelling we enjoy today. This is where we strip T'Challa down a bit and force him to confront the darkest reflection of himself in Killmonger. You can throw in Wakandan mutates, but if he's making one of his famous trips to New York here, you open up room for everyone from Red Ghost to Stilt Man. If you throw in shades of Doomwar, you could use Count Nefaria to stand in for Dr. Doom and have him in a third place with Killmonger playing Shuri's role as a temp ruler and warmonger.

The third film can go a number of directions, but at it's heart it really should be the the "War for the Black Panther" where T'Challa has to fight for his very core essence. The villain here could be his brother White Wolf, or Achebe, or both.

As suggested below, while Wakanda would always be an important location in the story, there's no reason Wakanda needs to have the majority of the screen time in any of the films.

Historically, what is Black Panther's role in The Avengers?

Is he more of a leader, or just a member of the team, or an occasional member, a la Aquaman?

He was kind of a sixth ranger, sort of on the edges, and coming through in the clutch. In recent times, with the New Avengers, which I suspect the MCU AVengers might be more like post A3, I think he's kind of a board chairman. Not so much a leader, but a facilitator in a group of leaders.

Hope if they do a couple of sequels they keep him mostly in Africa, with only short trips to US or America. Being a leader you can make it a bit more political. Talking to the UN, other leaders etc... haven him be a cross between Nelson Mandela and James Bond.
Have him stop wars, assassinations etc...

Not Wakkanda. But Africa. The continent is so vast. Bigger than the US, China and Europe put together. Bring in some Indiana Jones elements/Tarzan elements etc... Will give BP a unique flavour in the Marvel universe.

That's actually pretty inspired. I'd really love them to get into the diversity of Africa. Endless Savannas, Lost Kingdoms, bustling metropolises, brutal dictatorships, third world marketplaces, mountain vistas, crowded streets, hopless deserts. Don't think they will, but it'd be pretty fracking awesome. Also action-political has potential. Sort of a throwback to the warrior-kings of ancient times, both figuratively and thematically, and literally I think, but also literarily. But I digress. Aggressive negotiations, played straight, for the win.

 

[Dr. Evil]

If you guys are interested in the Panther, the best story to get into him is The Client. It basically breaks down who he is from the perspective of a bureaucrat who has to document everything that T'Challa does when he comes to America to investigate the death of a child related to one of his charities. It ties up the history of Black Panther very well.

There is also Reginald Hudlin's Who Is the Black Panther story, but....let's just say that Hudlin has a lot of detractors for a reason. I'm one of them.

Hudlin will likely be not involved in the film anyways so I don't think anyone has to worry about it.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Doing a quick search, it seems that Panther's Rage (Jungle Action #6-18) is considered to be a great Marvel masterpiece. Unfortunately, even with the followup storyline included, it isn't worth the $90 I'm seeing it on sale for (Marvel Masterworks: Black Panther). [ETA: It's apparently also Essential Black Panther Vol. 1 for $60, which is better, but still a lot).

But it does seem that storyline, Priest's run, and Hudlin's Who Is the Black Panther (along with the initial Fantastic Four appearances) would provide a wealth of material to draw from.

It does seem, in addition to Ulysses Klaw, Erik Killmonger and White Wolf are two other villains who might provide fruitful storylines.

 

[seahammer]

If you guys are interested in the Panther, the best story to get into him is The Client. It basically breaks down who he is from the perspective of a bureaucrat who has to document everything that T'Challa does when he comes to America to investigate the death of a child related to one of his charities. It ties up the history of Black Panther very well.

There is also Reginald Hudlin's Who Is the Black Panther story, but....let's just say that Hudlin has a lot of detractors for a reason. I'm one of them.

Yeah, I've seen the BET version that Mike Murdock mentioned. It... had it's merits, but there was so much I had to ignore to enjoy it.

I'll have to check out "The Client," though. Sounds awesome. (in addition to some of the other stories suggested here. Thanks guys!)

I envision two specifically, but I'd like trilogy.

The first one is the "War for Vibranium," where we see what makes T'Challa Black Panther and pretty much just explore his abilities and motivations. This would naturally have Klaw as a main villain. It can feature M'Baka or Moses Magnum as a secondary villain in alliance with Klaw, or you can use a mercenary crew not unlike in Who Is the Black Panther storyline, which is a good storyline to adapt, minus a little slang and political 'take thats.' You also may want to consider having some heroes be the secondary "villains" and having someone like Hawkeye or even Hulk playing the role the Fantastic Four played in Black Panther's first appearance, an idea/scene which has been adapted in Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Ultimate Avengers 2 cartoons where Black Panther whoops our heroes. In fact, other heroes jobbing for him was one of the biggest innovations Black Panther had going for him. That needs to be a big part of his first appearance. It is necessary for him to have that "sixth Ranger" type of appeal. After winning this war T'Challa should be established as an all around badarse superhero and master of Vibranium and it's applications.

The second is the "War for Wakanda," where we sort of get gritty with what Wakanda is and is not and we have our messiest political storyline. This is where combat mastermind and archnemesis Eric Killmonger comes in to play. The secondary villains are largely unimportant. Essentially, you are adapting the groundbreaking Rage of the Black Panther storyline that kind of invented the long-form comic book storytelling we enjoy today. This is where we strip T'Challa down a bit and force him to confront the darkest reflection of himself in Killmonger. You can throw in Wakandan mutates, but if he's making one of his famous trips to New York here, you open up room for everyone from Red Ghost to Stilt Man. If you throw in shades of Doomwar, you could use Count Nefaria to stand in for Dr. Doom and have him in a third place with Killmonger playing Shuri's role as a temp ruler and warmonger.

The third film can go a number of directions, but at it's heart it really should be the the "War for the Black Panther" where T'Challa has to fight for his very core essence. The villain here could be his brother White Wolf, or Achebe, or both.

As suggested below, while Wakanda would always be an important location in the story, there's no reason Wakanda needs to have the majority of the screen time in any of the films.

Wow, awesome in-depth response. I could definitely get behind those storylines in a BP franchise.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Doing a quick search, it seems that Panther's Rage (Jungle Action #6-18) is considered to be a great Marvel masterpiece. Unfortunately, even with the followup storyline included, it isn't worth the $90 I'm seeing it on sale for (Marvel Masterworks: Black Panther). [ETA: It's apparently also Essential Black Panther Vol. 1 for $60, which is better, but still a lot).

But it does seem that storyline, Priest's run, and Hudlin's Who Is the Black Panther (along with the initial Fantastic Four appearances) would provide a wealth of material to draw from.

It does seem, in addition to Ulysses Klaw, Erik Killmonger and White Wolf are two other villains who might provide fruitful storylines.

Personally, I'd rather Hunter (The White Wolf) be a good guy in the films, at least at first. I picture him, after Klaw takes over and while T'Challa is still oversees, trying to organize a rebellion, but failing due to a lack of trust in him, as an "outsider".

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, I could see that.

 

[E-Man]

I'm familiar with Hudlin's story through the BET cartoon. If that's faithful, it's not exactly subtle in many ways. But I do think it at least it's a good quasi-reboot and introduction to the character.

I don't know how much you've read overall. Would you say Priest's work is the best of Black Panther? Most definitive? Any silver age stories worthwhile? Actually, did he have his own series? I'm mostly familiar with him appearing in Fantastic Four.

I've read all of Black Panther's solo series, and I own all of the issues except about 4 trades. I'm a fanboy to say the least, but I think of myself as a fair fanboy. Priest's work on Panther isn't only my favorite Black Panther series, but it's my favorite comics run of all time. His series has pretty much all that you need. It has some great political commentary without hitting you over the head with it, great Black Panther moments, great struggle, cool villains, and stories that are built well. It's just simply a great comic that appeals to most people. That's why it has such a cult following. It's basically the definitive version of Panther in many people's eyes because it ties up a lot of continuity and is just plain great.

Some people like Hudlin's work, and it is a decent introduction if you aren't in to comics much. His writing is poorly refined to me, and he has a tendency to write people down to build Panther up instead of the other way around. The BET cartoon is basically a motion comic straight from the pages with a few changes. If you like that then you'd probably like most of his run. I hate it, but it can be fun. Too many older stories had Black Panther getting beat up too often, so Hudlin's Panther at least kicks a lot of ass like he should.

As for Silver Age stuff Panther came out during the Bronze Age if my numbers are correct, so he doesn't have anything there. Stan Lee wrote him with Jack Kirby in two issues of FF, then they wrote him in appearances in other titles before having him on the Avengers during Roy Thomas' run. Panther didn't do much in the Avengers, and he really tore down a lot of the cool stuff Stan the Man wrote. Stan's version of Panther was basically a genius fighter with cool gadgets. Thomas' version was just a dude in a catsuit that jumped around, and he designed the Quinjet that one time. I don't think you'd miss much.

If you want an old story that defined a lot of T'Challa's history then Jungle Action is a great start. Since Stan only wrote BP in a few appearances T'Challa and Wakanda wasn't really defined because Thomas had other characters to write. Jungle Action is Black Panther's first solo, and it's a very good story. T'Challa takes a lot of punishment in the series, but Don Mcgregor is a very good writer. His scripts are long as hell, but they are worth it. He has a very poetic way of telling action, and you really get hooked on the storyline. Black Panther doesn't use any gadgets because this is based more on the Roy Thomas vision than Stan's, but it's a great piece of work that sets up a lot of Wakanda and its villains. The whole run is collected in Marvel Masterworks. You can find it around $20 sometimes on eBay. Don McGregor, the writer of Jungle Action, does come back and writes a 4 issue miniseries call Panther's Prey that's just as good as Jungle Action.

Jack Kirby has a run that's....all over the place. It's kinda weird in terms of what happens, but the art is fantastic to say the least. Kirby isn't much of a writer IMO, but he definitely knew how to tell a story through pictures. Some like it because it's fun. This run really shows you the difference between Stan Lee and Jack Kirby because T'Challa is much different. Kirby did bring Wakanda back to being more tech based there. It's kinda like Hudlin's run, but with more of that old school craziness that happens.

Priest's run ties up that disconnect with the wild variations of Black Panther up, so it's a great start. Unfortunately it's only been collected in two trades of the first 12 issues, so if you want to read the whole thing you would have to search single issues or read them digitally.

As for modern stuff there is David Liss' Man Without Fear run. T'Challa for a very dumb reason fills in for Daredevil to "prove himself," but god damn if it isn't a great series. When you get past the silly premise the story is amazing. The art is top notch too. It's a good example of how a writer can take a bad assignment and make a good story regardless.