Chadwick Boseman is Black Panther! - Part 5

[Mike Murdock]

Thanks for the followup. I had read a little more into it and saw some of the suggestions you made as clear choices. Unfortunately, the Marvel Masterworks is closer to $90 right now instead of $20 (I saw $120 on ebay). I'll keep an eye out, but my goal is to not spend more than $30 a month on comics (and I'm sticking mostly to Daredevil until I've caught up). Who knows, maybe if we're lucky, they'll re-release all that cool stuff when they announce a movie.

Good to hear that David Liss's Man Without Fear run is good. From a Daredevil fan perspective, it felt so weird and out of left field. Although would you say it's fitting with the core of his character? If a reader wanted to know what makes Black Panther Black Panther, would it be helpful to read those stories?

 

[E-Man]

Thanks for the followup. I had read a little more into it and saw some of the suggestions you made as clear choices. Unfortunately, the Marvel Masterworks is closer to $90 right now instead of $20 (I saw $120 on ebay). I'll keep an eye out, but my goal is to not spend more than $30 a month on comics (and I'm sticking mostly to Daredevil until I've caught up). Who knows, maybe if we're lucky, they'll re-release all that cool stuff when they announce a movie.

Good to hear that David Liss's Man Without Fear run is good. From a Daredevil fan perspective, it felt so weird and out of left field. Although would you say it's fitting with the core of his character? If a reader wanted to know what makes Black Panther Black Panther, would it be helpful to read those stories?

Seems as though the rumors of a Black Panther announcement has got some sellers holding on to their copies. Tales of Wonder on eBay frequently sells Marvel Masterworks trades far cheaper than what the suggested retail price is. I got my copy of Jungle Action last year for $35, and then about a few weeks later it was going for $20.

I looked on their website, and they aren't listing the Jungle Action trade for now. Maybe in a couple of weeks it will be listed. When it comes to big announcements some sellers tend to do this, so when Marvel doesn't announce Black Panther Tuesday you might see it pop up.

Liss' Man Without Fear gets T'Challa's core right. T'Challa is basically the world's greatest poker player, and he's very resourceful. The Man Without Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive run gets that at the core. The only problem with it is the fact that a king shouldn't leave the nation that just lost its most precious resource to go prove himself in a hero's shoes in another country. That was a Marvel editorial decision to put T'Challa there, but Liss and Francavilla made it work. It's the best Black Panther run in my opinion since Priest's, and I'd personally put it third place behind Priest and McGregor. If you like Daredevil, like I do, then you'd probably like that run because it fits the same vein, but T'Challa is pretty much the same man there. It sucks Liss didn't get to write T'Challa in Wakanda because that would have been great.

Edit: talesofwonder.com is the website that sells cheap Masterworks trades. They're great all around.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Thanks for the link. I had another source I used for individual issues (midtowncomics.com), but it's good to have something for TPB besides Amazon. Of course, if Marvel does announce Black Panther on Tuesday, I'm screwed

I guess what I meant by the core was more about whether Black Panther is best when he's in Wakkanda as King, outside of Wakkanda but still King, or on the streets fighting crime. For a newbie, what would the best experience be to see what makes him unique compared to other Marvel heroes?

What are your thoughts on Everett K. Ross? From what I saw in the BET cartoon, I think it's fair to say that Hudlin didn't like him. I know when I was glancing at plot synopses from Preist's, I got kind of tired of seeing his name (which seemed to pop up as much as T'Challa's). I think there's some merit to the idea that he's there so as not to scare the white people away from reading the comic. Is that an unfair criticism? Would you say he's a good addition to the Black Panther mythos and should a Black Panther movie include him as a major supporting character?

 

[Dr. Evil]

I don't see the need to introduce Everett K. Ross in a Black Panther movie. My suggestion was Hawkeye, but he may be in Cap 3 so.....

Coulson maybe?

 

[Mike Murdock]

Well, Ross is specifically a Black Panther character. He's at least less transparently ("we need a white person" compared to Clint Barton).

 

[T"Challa]

This may be an unpopular opinion but i've always seen Everett Ross as a very pointless character. I guess he supposed to be BP's version of Ben Urich in a way but unlike that character, he never really does anything that amounts to anything significant. And Priest pretty much admitted that he was just a crutch to make white people more comfortable with reading BP.

 

[E-Man]

Thanks for the link. I had another source I used for individual issues (midtowncomics.com), but it's good to have something for TPB besides Amazon. Of course, if Marvel does announce Black Panther on Tuesday, I'm screwed

I guess what I meant by the core was more about whether Black Panther is best when he's in Wakkanda as King, outside of Wakkanda but still King, or on the streets fighting crime. For a newbie, what would the best experience be to see what makes him unique compared to other Marvel heroes?

What are your thoughts on Everett K. Ross? From what I saw in the BET cartoon, I think it's fair to say that Hudlin didn't like him. I know when I was glancing at plot synopses from Preist's, I got kind of tired of seeing his name (which seemed to pop up as much as T'Challa's). I think there's some merit to the idea that he's there so as not to scare the white people away from reading the comic. Is that an unfair criticism? Would you say he's a good addition to the Black Panther mythos and should a Black Panther movie include him as a major supporting character?

I think that T'Challa is at his best when he's in Wakanda, but Marvel usually tries to find a way for all of their heroes to be in New York. Unfortunately due to that T'Challa has gone and played hero in America while his country needs him. For a newbie though Priest's series is best because T'Challa is great everywhere.

I love the Ross character because the idea of him was basically to answer questions about how Black Panther can go from "that guy being in the back of the Avengers photos" to being the baddest man on the planet. Ross is there to be the voice of the fanboy who might notice that Black Panther was a guy that didn't do much in the Avengers. He's the voice of the fan reading the comic that wants to know more about the Panther. Early on he asks T'Challa, "Do you want me to call the Avengers?" He doubts that he's worth much, and would need the Avengers to do the real work. By the time that Black Panther gets into it with Iron Man later in the series Ross is the guy that tries to warn everyone that T'Challa is not to be messed with. At that point in the series we've seen how great Black Panther is, so we're rooting for him along with Ross. He was a great voice that served to poke fun at the need of a white character in a book featuring tons of black characters. He's very funny too. The dude once said something like Namor angrily has permanently arched eye brows.

Hudlin didn't really seem to care for the character, so Ross is just there to be there. Hudlin's writing voice doesn't really have room for a Ross character. Hudlin included some humor there because he's a comedic director, but Ross is a different type of humor. I'm glad Hudlin didn't use Ross much because he's not very good IMO at writing social commentary. Priest basically tells his social commentary in small doses, and nobody is perfect. While Ross does make many assumptions about Wakanda based on his small knowledge of black people it's not built up as if Wakanda is this perfect land full of nobles. It's not bashed over your head, but you get the feeling that everyone is a little dirty in poltics in the comic. I don't think that Hudlin's Ross would have evolved beyond being the "good white man" trope had he used him more.

 

[Nokio]

Someone like Tongayi Chirisa.

I know it's HIGHLY unlikely at this point, but until we get official casting news, I'm gonna keep banging the drum. He'd be fantastic as good and natural a fit as Hemsworth is to Thor, imho.

BP deserves nothing less than a trilogy.

Well he looks good, Have do some research on him although I highly doubt this man is even on Marvel's radar. I'd rather an actor from abroad play BP then an American.

 

[Nokio]

BP is a great character and when he's written well he shines. Christopher Priest's run was great and I loved it. I hated Reginald Hudlin's run with a passion. This is same man who help run BET into the ground both creative and quality wise, making it a network or Trash tv. His writings on BP were inconsistent and he put way to much into BP that was just out of character for me and Wakanda as a whole. I felt like he was injecting to much Urban Americanism into BP, when their shouldn't have been the place for it. Hudlin just didn't get or understand that non American blacks rather from Africa or any other country have a vastly different culture then we do here in the states. His take on BP and Wakanda just screamed the outlook of an American writing about a culture he don't understand and know. I love BP and supported the run but I couldn't stomach Hudlin's writings. When he made Doom a racist I stopped reading. I'm not sure why Marvel editors let that slide. Hudlin apparently isn't smart enough to understand Doom. The man is vastly intelligent and things like racism is beneath him Doom feels he's superior to everyone, doesn't matter your race or creed or nationality. Doom actually had respect for Tchalla and vice versa. Hudlin tore all that down when he was allowed to use Doom. I can go on but please for the LOVE OF GOD MARVEL DO NOT LET REGINALD HUDLIN CONTRIBUTE TO A BLACK PANTHER MOVIE IN ANY CAPACITY WHAT SO EVER!!!

If Marvel want to bring in some writers to asset with story and script or a producer then get Chris Priest.

 

[T"Challa]

BP is a great character and when he's written well he shines. Christopher Priest's run was great and I loved it. I hated Reginald Hudlin's run with a passion. This is same man who help run BET into the ground both creative and quality wise, making it a network or Trash tv. His writings on BP were inconsistent and he put way to much into BP that was just out of character for me and Wakanda as a whole. I felt like he was injecting to much Urban Americanism into BP, when their shouldn't have been the place for it. Hudlin just didn't get or understand that non American blacks rather from Africa or any other country have a vastly different culture then we do here in the states. His take on BP and Wakanda just screamed the outlook of an American writing about a culture he don't understand and know. I love BP and supported the run but I couldn't stomach Hudlin's writings. When he made Doom a racist I stopped reading. I'm not sure why Marvel editors let that slide. Hudlin apparently isn't smart enough to understand Doom. The man is vastly intelligent and things like racism is beneath him Doom feels he's superior to everyone, doesn't matter your race or creed or nationality. Doom actually had respect for Tchalla and vice versa. Hudlin tore all that down when he was allowed to use Doom. I can go on but please for the LOVE OF GOD MARVEL DO NOT LET REGINALD HUDLIN CONTRIBUTE TO A BLACK PANTHER MOVIE IN ANY CAPACITY WHAT SO EVER!!!

 

[Mike Murdock]

Nokio, I know I went back and forth on this with you previously regarding the use of "urban speak" in his run, but let me ask you this: Have to seen the BET cartoon? If so, would you say the dialogue is faithful to his run in the comic? I'll give you Dr. Doom being racist. Dr. Doom wasn't specifically there, but it fits with everything else I saw with other Marvel characters. But I didn't see anything at all that seemed like "urban" speech as you've called it before.

 

[Dr. Evil]

BP is a great character and when he's written well he shines. Christopher Priest's run was great and I loved it. I hated Reginald Hudlin's run with a passion. This is same man who help run BET into the ground both creative and quality wise, making it a network or Trash tv. His writings on BP were inconsistent and he put way to much into BP that was just out of character for me and Wakanda as a whole. I felt like he was injecting to much Urban Americanism into BP, when their shouldn't have been the place for it. Hudlin just didn't get or understand that non American blacks rather from Africa or any other country have a vastly different culture then we do here in the states. His take on BP and Wakanda just screamed the outlook of an American writing about a culture he don't understand and know. I love BP and supported the run but I couldn't stomach Hudlin's writings. When he made Doom a racist I stopped reading. I'm not sure why Marvel editors let that slide. Hudlin apparently isn't smart enough to understand Doom. The man is vastly intelligent and things like racism is beneath him Doom feels he's superior to everyone, doesn't matter your race or creed or nationality. Doom actually had respect for Tchalla and vice versa. Hudlin tore all that down when he was allowed to use Doom. I can go on but please for the LOVE OF GOD MARVEL DO NOT LET REGINALD HUDLIN CONTRIBUTE TO A BLACK PANTHER MOVIE IN ANY CAPACITY WHAT SO EVER!!!

If Marvel want to bring in some writers to asset with story and script or a producer then get Chris Priest.

Hudlin will not be involved in Black Panther. It will instead be the usual crop of Marvel producers: Kevin Feige, Joe Quesada, Victoria Alonzo, Alan Fine and Jeremy Latcham. They in turn will hire someone (regardless of race) who can come up with the best story to fit their vision.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I agree he won't be a producer (although Quesada is one the TV side of things, if I'm not mistaken), but he is a writer and director, which is what Marvel looks towards. I'm not saying there's any reason to believe it'll be him, but I also don't think it's clear it categorically won't be him.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I agree he won't be a producer (although Quesada is one the TV side of things, if I'm not mistaken), but he is a writer and director, which is what Marvel looks towards. I'm not saying there's any reason to believe it'll be him, but I also don't think it's clear it categorically won't be him.

Hudlin just signed on to write a Static Shock TV series.

 

[E-Man]

BP is a great character and when he's written well he shines. Christopher Priest's run was great and I loved it. I hated Reginald Hudlin's run with a passion. This is same man who help run BET into the ground both creative and quality wise, making it a network or Trash tv. His writings on BP were inconsistent and he put way to much into BP that was just out of character for me and Wakanda as a whole. I felt like he was injecting to much Urban Americanism into BP, when their shouldn't have been the place for it. Hudlin just didn't get or understand that non American blacks rather from Africa or any other country have a vastly different culture then we do here in the states. His take on BP and Wakanda just screamed the outlook of an American writing about a culture he don't understand and know. I love BP and supported the run but I couldn't stomach Hudlin's writings. When he made Doom a racist I stopped reading. I'm not sure why Marvel editors let that slide. Hudlin apparently isn't smart enough to understand Doom. The man is vastly intelligent and things like racism is beneath him Doom feels he's superior to everyone, doesn't matter your race or creed or nationality. Doom actually had respect for Tchalla and vice versa. Hudlin tore all that down when he was allowed to use Doom. I can go on but please for the LOVE OF GOD MARVEL DO NOT LET REGINALD HUDLIN CONTRIBUTE TO A BLACK PANTHER MOVIE IN ANY CAPACITY WHAT SO EVER!!!

If Marvel want to bring in some writers to asset with story and script or a producer then get Chris Priest.

Heh. Pretty much this. I was just trying to be nice, but Hudlin really doesn't understand the difference between black Americans and Africans. The dude said that he wrote Black Panther with Spike Lee and P. Diddy in mind. WTF? T'Challa would be nothing like that considering his upbringing vs. theirs. I kept reading the whole run, and while he got better he just wasn't the guy to be writing a good Black Panther. He sadly left T'Challa chumped out very badly by not even lifting a finger to fight Doctor Doom while Doom was attacking. He did all that just to shoe horn in Shuri for finally being Black Panther, and I'm glad he left the comic after that.

 

[DarKush]

^
E-Man,

I have to disagree with you a little. While I wouldn't have used P. Diddy and Spike Lee as role models for Black Panther I think Hudlin did it to make Black Panther more relevant for readers of that time. These were two black, successful public figures who had their fans, as well as their detractors, to be fair. Just like T'Challa. However people knew who they were and it could be easy to name check them for the general/casual reader or a person who hadn't read comics before.

During his run, I read a great deal of it, I thought that it was just okay, but looking back after seeing what his successors or Marvel Editorial have done to the Panther I see Hudlin's run as a golden age. I see he had a respect for Panther that Editorial doesn't.

Granted he did leave Panther in a tough spot, but at the same time perhaps it was in response to the criticism that his Panther was a Mary Sue. One of my criticisms of his run was that his Panther won too easily.

We don't know what role Editorial played in the decision to waylay the Panther. And I also have to wonder if Hudlin wasn't swayed by the prospect of elevating Shuri to Black Panther status.

As for Liss's run, I don't look at it as fondly as you do. I think Liss is a good writer, evidenced by his Mystery Men series and his work on The Spider, but his Panther work was too hamstrung by Editorial (I'm assuming). It wasn't bad, and it ultimately wound up being better than Maberry's run (I can't forgive him for DoomWar), but it never escaped the asinine situation Editorial put T'Challa in for me to fully accept the series.

Regarding Hudlin and African culture vis-a-vis African American culture, Wakanda is a fictional country and culture. Perhaps Hudlin was writing for an American audience, but how is this any different than Judd Winick's Batwing? To be fair to Winick I did read where he went to an African history (?) professor for consultation and I don't know what kind of research-if any-that Hudlin did for Black Panther, but still I would argue that you have two Americans writing an African character. No one pillories Winick on this point or but Hudlin has been criticized for years. I think Hudlin had a proper respect for the Panther and show how many American blacks respected him and that was cool with me.

 

[Nokio]

Nokio, I know I went back and forth on this with you previously regarding the use of "urban speak" in his run, but let me ask you this: Have to seen the BET cartoon? If so, would you say the dialogue is faithful to his run in the comic? I'll give you Dr. Doom being racist. Dr. Doom wasn't specifically there, but it fits with everything else I saw with other Marvel characters. But I didn't see anything at all that seemed like "urban" speech as you've called it before.

I thought that we've been through this already. As a black american I can tell the style of speak and the way things were worded with Hudlin as writer. It was very Urban American Black. Now you are probably thinking ebonics is what i mean and it's not. I'll I've you an example. When T"challa and Storm were fighting Doom, Doom made a remark "Tchalla I suggest check your woman or put her in place or something of that nature. WTF? Doom doesn't speak like that. Then the response from Storm and BP and it was just ughh! Man there were a bunch of examples I can list. It's pointless.

Hudlin was writing from an American perspective about an African culture that he doesn't understand despite it being fictional. His writing was more his fantasy of how he felt a powerfully wealthy black man would be in an America that has oppressed the black population for years. It's probably hard for you maybe to understand. We'll just agree to disagree. In my opinion Hudlin was a sub par writer for BP. Some of his stuff on BP was just decent but the quality wasn't there. Hudlin is not the man to work on a black Panther movie and script. I don't like his writing for the character.

 

[Nokio]

Heh. Pretty much this. I was just trying to be nice, but Hudlin really doesn't understand the difference between black Americans and Africans. The dude said that he wrote Black Panther with Spike Lee and P. Diddy in mind. WTF? T'Challa would be nothing like that considering his upbringing vs. theirs. I kept reading the whole run, and while he got better he just wasn't the guy to be writing a good Black Panther. He sadly left T'Challa chumped out very badly by not even lifting a finger to fight Doctor Doom while Doom was attacking. He did all that just to shoe horn in Shuri for finally being Black Panther, and I'm glad he left the comic after that.

Oh god, please don't even remind of that comment. I remember going going WTF!

 

[Nokio]

Hudlin will not be involved in Black Panther. It will instead be the usual crop of Marvel producers: Kevin Feige, Joe Quesada, Victoria Alonzo, Alan Fine and Jeremy Latcham. They in turn will hire someone (regardless of race) who can come up with the best story to fit their vision.

Yeah but the problem is things like race is so touchy. Disney would probably feel out of fear that a black creative team should be put on a Black Panther movie as to not to be accused of White washing. I can see Hudlin lobbying for a spot on the team somewhere. I really want the best team in place and not be beholden to just blacks having say creatively. Their is a lot of so so talented people out there who are in position to shoe horn themselves into this production, with Hudlin being one of them.

 

[Nokio]

^
E-Man,

I have to disagree with you a little. While I wouldn't have used P. Diddy and Spike Lee as role models for Black Panther I think Hudlin did it to make Black Panther more relevant for readers of that time. These were two black, successful public figures who had their fans, as well as their detractors, to be fair. Just like T'Challa. However people knew who they were and it could be easy to name check them for the general/casual reader or a person who hadn't read comics before.

During his run, I read a great deal of it, I thought that it was just okay, but looking back after seeing what his successors or Marvel Editorial have done to the Panther I see Hudlin's run as a golden age. I see he had a respect for Panther that Editorial doesn't.

Granted he did leave Panther in a tough spot, but at the same time perhaps it was in response to the criticism that his Panther was a Mary Sue. One of my criticisms of his run was that his Panther won too easily.

We don't know what role Editorial played in the decision to waylay the Panther. And I also have to wonder if Hudlin wasn't swayed by the prospect of elevating Shuri to Black Panther status.

As for Liss's run, I don't look at it as fondly as you do. I think Liss is a good writer, evidenced by his Mystery Men series and his work on The Spider, but his Panther work was too hamstrung by Editorial (I'm assuming). It wasn't bad, and it ultimately wound up being better than Maberry's run (I can't forgive him for DoomWar), but it never escaped the asinine situation Editorial put T'Challa in for me to fully accept the series.

Regarding Hudlin and African culture vis-a-vis African American culture, Wakanda is a fictional country and culture. Perhaps Hudlin was writing for an American audience, but how is this any different than Judd Winick's Batwing? To be fair to Winick I did read where he went to an African history (?) professor for consultation and I don't know what kind of research-if any-that Hudlin did for Black Panther, but still I would argue that you have two Americans writing an African character. No one pillories Winick on this point or but Hudlin has been criticized for years. I think Hudlin had a proper respect for the Panther and show how many American blacks respected him and that was cool with me.

You don't have to try and make BP relatable to American culture specifically black american culture. It just isn't the same. We all know what American culture is and BP has been around for decades. The guide line should be followed on how Wakanda was introduced and not change it. It does;t need to be Americanized to be understandable.

 

[Boom]

This had better be one of Marvel's 2017 films.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Yeah but the problem is things like race is so touchy. Disney would probably feel out of fear that a black creative team should be put on a Black Panther movie as to not to be accused of White washing. I can see Hudlin lobbying for a spot on the team somewhere. I really want the best team in place and not be beholden to just blacks having say creatively. Their is a lot of so so talented people out there who are in position to shoe horn themselves into this production, with Hudlin being one of them.

Hudlin is working on the Static Shock web series, so I doubt he'll be involved in this movie at all.

 

[DrCosmic]

You don't have to try and make BP relatable to American culture specifically black american culture. It just isn't the same. We all know what American culture is and BP has been around for decades. The guide line should be followed on how Wakanda was introduced and not change it. It does;t need to be Americanized to be understandable.

But it does need to be Americanized to be popular amongst Americans, which is kinda the point of American comics like Black Panther. What Hudlin did was make BP accessible. He even brought something as academic and historically divisive as African Colonialism and made it not just understandable, but valuableto people who still haven't quite figured out Africa is not a country. No amount of Doom being a racist or quotes from Diddy Dirty Money will take us back to the 2004 where BP wasn't even appearing in comics anymore, beyond guest spots in Disassembled, with no plans to revive him. What we have now: cartoons, being constantly in print, long term editorial angles, people of all ethnicities asking Feige about a BP film, all that flows from Hudlin inviting everyone into the BP experience. I think Priest's run was better, but because it wasn't as accessible, it wasn't as popular, so when Wesley Snipes tried to make a film of it, no one wanted to back it and assume the American audiences would leave things catered to them and go for things that are more catered to African audiences. Hudlin made great calls in framing the story. That should be commended, even if we have to condemn some of his other decisions as well, I don't know why we have to pretend like that didn't happen.

Its so crazy to me when people think that just because the GA understands something that they give a crap. The GA understands the dictionary. They're not going to spend 2 hours and $12 reading it though, even if the illustrations are nice. Do they give a crap about what's happening? Is it important to them, them being people largely unfamiliar with African history beyond it being a large desert/rural area where slaves came from?

 

[E-Man]

^
E-Man,

I have to disagree with you a little. While I wouldn't have used P. Diddy and Spike Lee as role models for Black Panther I think Hudlin did it to make Black Panther more relevant for readers of that time. These were two black, successful public figures who had their fans, as well as their detractors, to be fair. Just like T'Challa. However people knew who they were and it could be easy to name check them for the general/casual reader or a person who hadn't read comics before.

During his run, I read a great deal of it, I thought that it was just okay, but looking back after seeing what his successors or Marvel Editorial have done to the Panther I see Hudlin's run as a golden age. I see he had a respect for Panther that Editorial doesn't.

Granted he did leave Panther in a tough spot, but at the same time perhaps it was in response to the criticism that his Panther was a Mary Sue. One of my criticisms of his run was that his Panther won too easily.

We don't know what role Editorial played in the decision to waylay the Panther. And I also have to wonder if Hudlin wasn't swayed by the prospect of elevating Shuri to Black Panther status.

As for Liss's run, I don't look at it as fondly as you do. I think Liss is a good writer, evidenced by his Mystery Men series and his work on The Spider, but his Panther work was too hamstrung by Editorial (I'm assuming). It wasn't bad, and it ultimately wound up being better than Maberry's run (I can't forgive him for DoomWar), but it never escaped the asinine situation Editorial put T'Challa in for me to fully accept the series.

Regarding Hudlin and African culture vis-a-vis African American culture, Wakanda is a fictional country and culture. Perhaps Hudlin was writing for an American audience, but how is this any different than Judd Winick's Batwing? To be fair to Winick I did read where he went to an African history (?) professor for consultation and I don't know what kind of research-if any-that Hudlin did for Black Panther, but still I would argue that you have two Americans writing an African character. No one pillories Winick on this point or but Hudlin has been criticized for years. I think Hudlin had a proper respect for the Panther and show how many American blacks respected him and that was cool with me.

Hadn't seen you around in a while. Howdy.

Sounds to me like you've been keeping up with things in New Avengers. I am giving Hickman the benefit of the doubt that there's a nice endgame, but having Wakanda destroyed like that does not make me happy. This after having the other Panthers desert him makes me hate seeing them tear down T'Challa and Wakanda yet again. Hickman at least gets T'Challa's voice though, so I'm still along for the ride.

There's no issue with writing for an American audience. The issue is with writing someone like two guys who act very different from the way T'Challa has acted. P. Diddy and Spike Lee are outspoken guys, and in the case of Diddy he's flashy as all hell. Panther has either been written as an eloquent guy that's low key about his emotions, or someone who is possibly too humble to a fault. That's nothing like the two that Hudlin had in mind, and it shows. Had T'Challa been a new character it might not have been so bad, but T'Challa has been an established character since 1966. Winnick's Batwing was a brand new guy that could be built around any personality, and even then Winnick is just a much better writer than Hudlin is. Batwing was my favorite new 52 book up until the changed from David to Luke as Batwing, and a lot of that had to do with Winnick's writing. Hudlin's writing just isn't very good to cover up his mistakes. Liss' run was hamstrung by editorial, but he at least wrote a very nice story the best way that he could. I hated T'Challa stepping in for Daredevil, but the plot progression and villains were still pretty good. Hudlin on the other hand had all that he needed. He could take the Panther pretty much wherever he wanted, but he just isn't a good writer in this medium. He doesn't define his characters well enough for my liking, and there's other stupid stuff like having Black Panther walk around with the cursed Ebony Blade like it was nothing.

 

[chamber-music]

I thought that we've been through this already. As a black american I can tell the style of speak and the way things were worded with Hudlin as writer. It was very Urban American Black. Now you are probably thinking ebonics is what i mean and it's not. I'll I've you an example. When T"challa and Storm were fighting Doom, Doom made a remark "Tchalla I suggest check your woman or put her in place or something of that nature. WTF? Doom doesn't speak like that. Then the response from Storm and BP and it was just ughh! Man there were a bunch of examples I can list. It's pointless.

Hudlin was writing from an American perspective about an African culture that he doesn't understand despite it being fictional. His writing was more his fantasy of how he felt a powerfully wealthy black man would be in an America that has oppressed the black population for years. It's probably hard for you maybe to understand. We'll just agree to disagree. In my opinion Hudlin was a sub par writer for BP. Some of his stuff on BP was just decent but the quality wasn't there. Hudlin is not the man to work on a black Panther movie and script. I don't like his writing for the character.

I agree. Thankfully I doubt a Black Panther movie would have characters speak or behave in that way Hudlin wrote them.