Character Embargo Discussion

[godisawesome]

So, Arrow fans have been twice denied characters this season; Ray Palmer as the Atom gets to show up because for some reason Ted Kord the Blue Beetle couldn't, and Deadshot makes one last appearance and is apparently officially MIA out of universe as well as in. This isn't the first appearance of this type of character embargo: Batman characters were especially notable for an embargo on appearances in Justice League, and even Aquaman suddenly lost his biggest foe in that show.

Now, we're seeing a similar trend towards some characters in the TV shows, but also inconsistent application. I mean, c'mon guys, Flash is going to have two actors present at the same time, Superman is going to be a hefty part of Supergirl's world, it's hard to see that Titans show escaping connections to Batman, and for a lot of us, the "confusion of the children" is an excuse that lacks any understanding in the actual workings of a child's mind.

So, what do you guys think is causing this inconsistent and frustrating application of embargoes right now, especially in cases where it seems to have a double standard (ie., Flash and Superman vs Blue Beetle and Black Manta)? And how would you resolve this issue if you were in a position of authority at WB?

 

[The Sage]

It was never said Deadshot was out of Arrow's universe. The producer said the character was off the table, which could be interpreted in different ways, especially considering they just "killed" him off. Which would really mean he is off the table since he's supposed to be dead. They could plan to bring him back for a later appearance. Revealing that would spoil the surprise.

 

[DrMylesOBoogie]

TV shows are a separate universe so they shouldn't be allowed use characters that are being developed for films. It will get confusing for people and undermines what's happening in the shows when you have a star the caliber of Will Smith getting cast as a character that is also played by the guy from Arrow.

Amell's aware of it and is probably dreading the day a Hollywood actor is named Green Arrow for a film. I wish they had a shared universe but the TV people are being greedy and impatient and want to use as many comic characters as possible as a cheap way of gaining an audience and not because they are a good fit for compelling storytelling. They are all about gimmicks just like DC comics themselves.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It was only a matter of time when characters start to be divided up with how many DC shows are coming out.

I just dont get why DC would embargo Deadshot so early. I could understand it being around the time the movie starts getting publicity and is about to come out.

 

[Loki882]

This is really dumb. First of all, it's treating the audience like they're idiots. If WB/DC REALLY thinks that people would confuse Arrow Deadshot with Will Smith Deadshot for example, then that's a problem with THEM, not the audience. Give your fans a little more credit, by which I mean ANY credit

Second, their whole reasoning behind keeping the TV and Film-universes separate was so that this DIDN'T happen. You could tell different stories with these characters in different universes, while not stepping on each other's toes (as much as I love Marvel overall, that does happen from time to time with them). However, that appears to be EXACTLY what's happening. So if you're STILL going to step on each other's toes, then you might as well connect the films and TV shows. At least then you'd be getting some of the rewards, instead of ONLY the problems.

And third, where does it end? So when the Flash movie comes out, are we going to cancel show? Or are characters like Barry, or Captain Cold, or Captain Boomerang, or Reverse Flash, etc suddenly going to be off-limits? Because that's where this is heading. Are we never going to see Amanda Waller again on Arrow because she's also appearing in the SS movie, or Deathstroke if he appears in the movie, etc? It just makes no sense.

Basically it's dumb, counterproductive, and frankly insulting to the audience.

 

[Primal Slayer]

DC has been treating us like idiots for the past 15/20 years when they embargoed all of Batmans characters from Justice League.

 

[dude stannis]

On one hand, I hate the idea of the DC universe being limited on both TV and movies. The movie JLA line up looks kind of boring since it's just the New 52 team and on Arrow Slade and Deadshot are great characters.

The one positive here is the CWverse gets to use all different kinds of underused and underrated characters.

 

[Primal Slayer]

People want the same characters used over and over again when we have more then enough characters that they could breathe new life into. Look what Arrow did for Felicity, took a E-list DC character, revamped her into one of the most popular characters on the show.

 

[Marvin]

...people are being greedy and impatient and want to use as many comic characters as possible as a cheap way of gaining an audience and not because they are a good fit for compelling storytelling. They are all about gimmicks just like DC comics themselves.

Really?
DC comics is the first and only thing that comes to mind in this moment?

 

[Cain]

Second, their whole reasoning behind keeping the TV and Film-universes separate was so that this DIDN'T happen. You could tell different stories with these characters in different universes, while not stepping on each other's toes.

That is what I thought as well. Seems pretty stupid otherwise. There is no point.

 

[godisawesome]

I'm thinking that there must be multiple people involved with multiple characters, and that's the reason for the inconsistency. Clearly, the Superman and Flash guys have enough confidence in their iconography to have multiple live-action versions. But Ted Kord, if he's tied to that proposed and failed Blue Beetle tv show, might be axed by someone who's just so far out of the loop but maintains that power because they still want to show Jaime Reyes as the "iconic" version of the character. Same with Deadshot.

In which case, the answer may be to have someone's responsibilities expand to controlling the appearances of all characters through one office with veto power. Johns seems like he'd already be that guy, but it's easy to see why more traditional entertainment powers wouldn't trust him.

 

[The Batman]

The worst was when they embargoed Aquaman on JLU...for a TV pilot that didn't even reach the air.

 

[Docker2.0]

This is really dumb. First of all, it's treating the audience like they're idiots. If WB/DC REALLY thinks that people would confuse Arrow Deadshot with Will Smith Deadshot for example, then that's a problem with THEM, not the audience. Give your fans a little more credit, by which I mean ANY credit

Second, their whole reasoning behind keeping the TV and Film-universes separate was so that this DIDN'T happen. You could tell different stories with these characters in different universes, while not stepping on each other's toes (as much as I love Marvel overall, that does happen from time to time with them). However, that appears to be EXACTLY what's happening. So if you're STILL going to step on each other's toes, then you might as well connect the films and TV shows. At least then you'd be getting some of the rewards, instead of ONLY the problems.

And third, where does it end? So when the Flash movie comes out, are we going to cancel show? Or are characters like Barry, or Captain Cold, or Captain Boomerang, or Reverse Flash, etc suddenly going to be off-limits? Because that's where this is heading. Are we never going to see Amanda Waller again on Arrow because she's also appearing in the SS movie, or Deathstroke if he appears in the movie, etc? It just makes no sense.

Basically it's dumb, counterproductive, and frankly insulting to the audience.

Man! I almost tried to give you a thumbs up or like your comment! I don't get WB/DC.........though I blame WB more than DC. I remember Geoff trying to talk about certain characters and movie and he couldn't and you can see it in his eyes how frustrated he was. These guys don't have a freakin clue and I still say that Nolan is the worst thing that could have happened to the DCCU.

DC has been treating us like idiots for the past 15/20 years when they embargoed all of Batmans characters from Justice League.

They put all their money on Batman and I think it's going to backfire on them when they do the DC spinoffs. Wonder Woman has only been seen in animated crap since the 70's which doesn't make any sense.

 

[Jason Kane]

The worst was when they embargoed Aquaman on JLU...for a TV pilot that didn't even reach the air.

Now they're doing the same with Blue Beetle only they won't do for him anymore than Universal's done for the Sub Mariner.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Second, their whole reasoning behind keeping the TV and Film-universes separate was so that this DIDN'T happen. You could tell different stories with these characters in different universes, while not stepping on each other's toes (as much as I love Marvel overall, that does happen from time to time with them). However, that appears to be EXACTLY what's happening. So if you're STILL going to step on each other's toes, then you might as well connect the films and TV shows. At least then you'd be getting some of the rewards, instead of ONLY the problems.

This here is exactly why it is so incredibly stupid. This is the primary reason why I don't have much faith in WB management. They really don't seem to have any idea what they're doing.

 

[Jason Kane]

This here is exactly why it is so incredibly stupid. This is the primary reason why I don't have much faith in WB management. They really don't seem to have any idea what they're doing.

It's been evident since the 80s. Given the preceding circumstances that once prevented Spider-Man (while still preventing X-Men, F4 and Namor) from being used, Marvel has an excuse for why they can't use certain characters. The WB demonstrated their lack of wisdon time and time again:

*No Joker for the Legion of Doom in the SuperFriends (due to Filmation having access to him)

*No Batman and WW appearances in Smallville (though the latter stems from the Marston estate possibly)

*No Donna Troy in Teen Titans: TAS (see WW)
*+No Nightwing appearance in Birds of Prey
*The duly noted Aquaman-Black Manta absence in JL Unlimited due to the Mercy Reef pilot that never made it past that stage (and that one paved the way for A.J. Curry for Buisek's OYL Aquaman run).

*Green Arrow now back to the Batman wannabe status since the WB wants to keep Batman film bound rather than take a risk in making a proper TV series (Bats '66 on DVD or not)

*Blue Beetle denied a Arrow appearance due to "plans"; Unless the plans mean that Booster Gold TV show that's still in development Hell or a BB show with Jaime Reyes, their "plans" comment means nothing.


The studio lost the right to play the "It'll confuse the audience" Card the moment Google and Wikipedia were born. That excuse lost its momentum in the age of the Internet.

+* = Debatable

 

[dsfjr1190]

I'm dreading the day The Flash movie goes into production. They might decide to prohibit the tv show from using Killer Frost, Captain Cold, and Reverse Flash.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'm dreading the day The Flash movie goes into production. They might decide to prohibit the tv show from using Killer Frost, Captain Cold, and Reverse Flash.

Killer Frost isn't really a Flash villain, so she should be fine. The other two, however, may be in trouble. Which is, as I've previously stated, a bunch of malarkey.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Flash is my favorite superhero show ever, but by the time the movie comes out, theyll be on season 4. thats so many episodes already, it'd be acceptable imo for the show to wrap up around then. from there, CW Flash could make sporadic appearances in team up episodes

 

[batdude]

It does seem horribly random. and I just hope it doesn't wreck the Flash show.

 

[queendarkness12]

When we have more then enough characters that they could breathe new life into. Look what Arrow did for Felicity, took a E-list DC character, revamped her into one of the most popular characters on the show.

This is what the TV Universe should be doing, instead of using the characters that are going to be in the movies. t:

 

[dnno1]

So, Arrow fans have been twice denied characters this season; Ray Palmer as the Atom gets to show up because for some reason Ted Kord the Blue Beetle couldn't, and Deadshot makes one last appearance and is apparently officially MIA out of universe as well as in. This isn't the first appearance of this type of character embargo: Batman characters were especially notable for an embargo on appearances in Justice League, and even Aquaman suddenly lost his biggest foe in that show.

Now, we're seeing a similar trend towards some characters in the TV shows, but also inconsistent application. I mean, c'mon guys, Flash is going to have two actors present at the same time, Superman is going to be a hefty part of Supergirl's world, it's hard to see that Titans show escaping connections to Batman, and for a lot of us, the "confusion of the children" is an excuse that lacks any understanding in the actual workings of a child's mind.

So, what do you guys think is causing this inconsistent and frustrating application of embargoes right now, especially in cases where it seems to have a double standard (ie., Flash and Superman vs Blue Beetle and Black Manta)? And how would you resolve this issue if you were in a position of authority at WB?

Andrew Kriesberg mentioned at SDCC last year that DC Entertainment told them that there were other plans for Ted Kord and Blue beetle, and that was why they couldn't use the. It could be a similar issue with Deadshot since he may appear in the Suicide Squad movie. There is also the possibility of over exposure of a character or brand that has to be considered as well as to why you don't see Batman or someone like that on the show.

 

[Zarex]

I thought that Daredevil provided the perfect template for how to connect a film and TV universe. While Agents of Shield couldn't go five minutes without an Avengers reference in the much maligned first half of season 1, Daredevil played it cool. There were mentions of "The Incident", a few newspaper headlines and a joke about a magic hammer, but DD kept to his own playground.

But unlike Arrow or Flash, DD is an important part of the MCU, and I wouldn't be surprised if Charlie Cox makes an appearance in a future Avengers flick or the Spidey solo feature. Meanwhile, Gustin and Amell are unavailable for use in the DCCU. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Docker2.0]

I thought that Daredevil provided the perfect template for how to connect a film and TV universe. While Agents of Shield couldn't go five minutes without an Avengers reference in the much maligned first half of season 1, Daredevil played it cool. There were mentions of "The Incident", a few newspaper headlines and a joke about a magic hammer, but DD kept to his own playground.

But unlike Arrow or Flash, DD is an important part of the MCU, and I wouldn't be surprised if Charlie Cox makes an appearance in a future Avengers flick or the Spidey solo feature. Meanwhile, Gustin and Amell are unavailable for use in the DCCU. That makes absolutely no sense.

*likes comment*

 

[cleverusername8]

I'm dreading the day The Flash movie goes into production. They might decide to prohibit the tv show from using Killer Frost, Captain Cold, and Reverse Flash.

I'm feeling like the Reverse Flash story will be long wrapped up by the time the Flash movie goes into production. There's only so much they can do with the character after you hit on Flashpoint which all signs seem to be pointing towards. Flashpoint was the end of Eobard Thawne and will likely be the same for the TV universe.