Christopher Nolan's Inception

[JL Unlimited]

Spoiler

I think it was because Saito died on the first level while Cobb didn't die he was still in limbo in the present, thus their time lines would be drastically different.

Thanks Hunter! That makes total sense.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

What?

It connected to the film's theme of an objective "reality".

Spoiler

It goes against what was established already because it was established that he couldn't see his children's faces in his dreams due to the fact that he didn't see their faces before he fled the country. It goes against what was established because he had escaped limbo, and the dream world and was now all of a sudden back in it? It just really screamed of "shock value" to me, more than substance. I appreciate the film for how much it made me think, but I do believe that you can outsmart yourself. Sometimes, complex does not equal better, and it seemed like Nolan put in an unnecessary ambiguous ending to try to keep the notion of being "smart" in the movie, because a straight forward ending is too "dumbed down". I think that all these theories about Cobb being the mark instead of Fischer or what have you are thinking way too deeply into it because I didn't find any of this stuff to be actually supported by anything that was actually in the movie.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I haven't been really keeping up with discussions in her, so I don't if anyone has speculated this kind of idea sorry, but a friend of mine had an interesting idea for what Inception was really about plot-wise. I kind of thought it was far-fetched when he detailed it at, but now that it's simmered a bit...I can see it. I don't think it's 'correct' myself, I think the story was meant to be a little more straightforward than this, but found it an interesting theory.

Spoiler

The 'Inception' wasn't an Inception, but an unorthodox Extraction to basically extract this excess guilt Cobb was feeling. He speculated that Cobb was never actually wanted, all of it stemming for that single idea of guilt at the Inception he did of his wife (maybe he even planted the idea himself by accident, since they were so connected at the time). Mostly he picked up on this through the self-aware nature of the film. They brought attention to the convenience of the faceless corporation chasing Cobb, the fact that Sadio just happened to be a guy who could magically clear Cobb, they just happened to find a prodigy of an architect easily, etc.

He put forth that the whole thing was an elaborate play of sorts by the rest of the crew to get him out of that. The only problem was West's character in his theory, but later he elaborated that she probably wasn't in it, but was kind of pushed into involvement with Cobb to make sure the progression was more natural (like how Arthur was the one to inform of his wife's death, for example).

Of course, it brings up a big question of why? Well, they said he was the best at what he did, but he was obviously screwing up the work. We're lead to believe the other crew members don't suspect that his feelings of his wife are as significant to screw around with the missions, yet we see it happen at the very beginning (and it's implied it's happened before). You would think someone would at the very least start suspecting this. They wanted to get him back on track, and the best way to do this would be to Extract without him realizing it, since he was basically lost to his delusion. Of course, Cobb refers to it as 'one last mission', but we really have no way of knowing if the other crew members felt this way or not, and it would probably be of the best interest to a lot of people to keep Cobb in the game.

The biggest question being why wouldn't they have told this twist at the end? Why keep it a secret? Well, they mention several times that an idea can spread like a virus. If Cobb knew that he didn't overcome this by himself and was pushed into it, the idea of guilt and doubt would be replanted and spread like disease, making those things resurface.

So, his basic theory was that the Inception of Fischer was a dummy mission, or it was actually a dual of Inception and Extraction, which the Extraction aspect being very low key.

Like I said, I don't really subscribe to this one myself, but I think it's an interesting theory. Not sure if it holds up under scrutiny or not, but felt it was intriguing considering the film was all about reality and dreams fooling you and such.

Anyway, I can understand some of the complaints of character depth. I never felt like the characters outside Cobb had much depth, but I never felt like they were cardboard or anything; they all had distinct personalities, even if they weren't as flushed out as the lead.

I don't think this movie will be completely 'forgotten' in a few years time as someone said earlier. I think it'll have good legs to be remembered on. However, I don't know it'll leave a huge impact on cinema overall, like some suggest. I know there's been comparisons to The Matrix, but I just don't see it being as defining and impactful as that was. It was unique, and I can see some trying to ape it's use of dream logic in the future, but I don't know, just don't think it's going to become a defining classic for the ages. Of course, only time will tell in that regard.

Having said that, I really did love the movie. First big time, action blockbuster that stayed firmly in my mind when I stepped out of the theater in a good while. I'm very interested in dreams and things, so it was a massive treat for myself. I didn't have a problem with the ending, either, like some apparently did. I thought the ambiguity wasn't unwarranted at all. I might go back to see it again, which is a rarity for me (the last movie I watched more than once in the theater was The Matrix).

 

[Avengers-Report]

I like how every other post is nothing but spoilers on this thread, lol.

 

[Sharkboy]

9/10 on my first viewing last night, just watched it 2 hours ago and things were completely clear and i knew what to expect, ramped it up to 10/10. Just mind-blowing all around, the action was superb, im glad Nolan has gotten the hang of it. The zero G fight was superb.

 

[Solidus]

I haven't been really keeping up with discussions in her, so I don't if anyone has speculated this kind of idea sorry, but a friend of mine had an interesting idea for what Inception was really about plot-wise. I kind of thought it was far-fetched when he detailed it at, but now that it's simmered a bit...I can see it. I don't think it's 'correct' myself, I think the story was meant to be a little more straightforward than this, but found it an interesting theory.

Spoiler

The 'Inception' wasn't an Inception, but an unorthodox Extraction to basically extract this excess guilt Cobb was feeling. He speculated that Cobb was never actually wanted, all of it stemming for that single idea of guilt at the Inception he did of his wife (maybe he even planted the idea himself by accident, since they were so connected at the time). Mostly he picked up on this through the self-aware nature of the film. They brought attention to the convenience of the faceless corporation chasing Cobb, the fact that Sadio just happened to be a guy who could magically clear Cobb, they just happened to find a prodigy of an architect easily, etc.

He put forth that the whole thing was an elaborate play of sorts by the rest of the crew to get him out of that. The only problem was West's character in his theory, but later he elaborated that she probably wasn't in it, but was kind of pushed into involvement with Cobb to make sure the progression was more natural (like how Arthur was the one to inform of his wife's death, for example).

Of course, it brings up a big question of why? Well, they said he was the best at what he did, but he was obviously screwing up the work. We're lead to believe the other crew members don't suspect that his feelings of his wife are as significant to screw around with the missions, yet we see it happen at the very beginning (and it's implied it's happened before). You would think someone would at the very least start suspecting this. They wanted to get him back on track, and the best way to do this would be to Extract without him realizing it, since he was basically lost to his delusion. Of course, Cobb refers to it as 'one last mission', but we really have no way of knowing if the other crew members felt this way or not, and it would probably be of the best interest to a lot of people to keep Cobb in the game.

The biggest question being why wouldn't they have told this twist at the end? Why keep it a secret? Well, they mention several times that an idea can spread like a virus. If Cobb knew that he didn't overcome this by himself and was pushed into it, the idea of guilt and doubt would be replanted and spread like disease, making those things resurface.

So, his basic theory was that the Inception of Fischer was a dummy mission, or it was actually a dual of Inception and Extraction, which the Extraction aspect being very low key.

Like I said, I don't really subscribe to this one myself, but I think it's an interesting theory. Not sure if it holds up under scrutiny or not, but felt it was intriguing considering the film was all about reality and dreams fooling you and such.

Anyway, I can understand some of the complaints of character depth. I never felt like the characters outside Cobb had much depth, but I never felt like they were cardboard or anything; they all had distinct personalities, even if they weren't as flushed out as the lead.

I don't think this movie will be completely 'forgotten' in a few years time as someone said earlier. I think it'll have good legs to be remembered on. However, I don't know it'll leave a huge impact on cinema overall, like some suggest. I know there's been comparisons to The Matrix, but I just don't see it being as defining and impactful as that was. It was unique, and I can see some trying to ape it's use of dream logic in the future, but I don't know, just don't think it's going to become a defining classic for the ages. Of course, only time will tell in that regard.

Having said that, I really did love the movie. First big time, action blockbuster that stayed firmly in my mind when I stepped out of the theater in a good while. I'm very interested in dreams and things, so it was a massive treat for myself. I didn't have a problem with the ending, either, like some apparently did. I thought the ambiguity wasn't unwarranted at all. I might go back to see it again, which is a rarity for me (the last movie I watched more than once in the theater was The Matrix).

I am writing a further idea. But yea for the past 10 pages I've posted a similar idea. I think some got tired of me repeating it lol.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Thanks Hunter! That makes total sense.

Spoiler

It goes against what was established already because it was established that he couldn't see his children's faces in his dreams due to the fact that he didn't see their faces before he fled the country. It goes against what was established because he had escaped limbo, and the dream world and was now all of a sudden back in it? It just really screamed of "shock value" to me, more than substance. I appreciate the film for how much it made me think, but I do believe that you can outsmart yourself. Sometimes, complex does not equal better, and it seemed like Nolan put in an unnecessary ambiguous ending to try to keep the notion of being "smart" in the movie, because a straight forward ending is too "dumbed down". I think that all these theories about Cobb being the mark instead of Fischer or what have you are thinking way too deeply into it because I didn't find any of this stuff to be actually supported by anything that was actually in the movie.

Spoiler

Cobb couldn't see their faces because he refused to look until he saw them again in the real world. The question the ending leaves you was did the spinner drop? if yes then there is no issue, if no it means he is looking at them because he no longer realizes the difference between reality and the dreamworld.

 

[JL Unlimited]

what i don't understand is how

Spoiler

a car flipping over several times doesn't create the sensation of falling when a simple tip of a chair (even to its side) was shown to be effective in waking someone up.

overall, i thought the movie was terrific in a lot of ways. i haven't seen many movies released in 2010 that i thought were memorable; this movie has been the exception.

Spoiler

They were in a dream within a dream. The car flipping over several times wouldn't have woke them up since they were in another dream (the hotel sequence). That's why Arthur had to synchronize the kick in the hotel dream with Yasif's kick in the car.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Spoiler

They were in a dream within a dream. The car flipping over several times wouldn't have woke them up since they were in another dream (the hotel sequence). That's why Arthur had to synchronize the kick in the hotel dream with Yasif's kick in the car.

Spoiler

Plus they rolled and were strapped in, it's not the same feeling as free falling backwards.

 

[Solidus]

I did not have any cool dreams last night. Anyone else? Lol.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I did not have any cool dreams last night. Anyone else? Lol.

I can never remember my dreams after I've been awake for an hour or so, I did wake up with a splitting headache though, maybe I'd been in a zero g battle.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

Thanks Hunter Rider for saying pretty much all the things I would have said, because now I don't have to. Keep up the good work. But yeah, I really liked this movie and every possible thought has been stated already so I won't bother. But I witnessed something for the first time ever watching a film in a theater.

Spoiler

When that top was spinning, I could honestly feel the tension in the theater grow and people started whispering to themselves. And then it wobbled and the screen went dark, there was a collective gasp and then people clapped. I never once witnessed that at the theater before and my brother brought it up on the car ride home too. It was intense. So I guess Nolan did his job with this audience.

that reaction happened in my theater....

Spoiler

everyone in the theater was vocal both times when the ending happened...everyone was happy and some people were actually sweating...only the girls in the front row didnt get it...but they were dumb...but attractive.

 

[Solidus]

I can never remember my dreams after I've been awake for an hour or so, I did wake up with a splitting headache though, maybe I'd been in a zero g battle.

Now that you mention it I do have a sore back since I woke up. Maybe we both got in some kind of big battle. Or I was just the idiot that rolled my van. lol.

 

[Solidus]

And I do think this movie will go down as remembered. Blade Runner did nothing really new with SFX at the time, it was amazing but nothing new. So I don't think a classic needs to have some new SFX or style like The Matrix to be remembered. I just think the brilliant editing, and story layering, and just the unique idea of the dream world will be enough to keep it in the books. But true only time will tell.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Now that you mention it I do have a sore back since I woke up. Maybe we both got in some kind of big battle. Or I was just the idiot that rolled my van. lol.

 

[The Spawn]

Spoiler

If you were in a subconscious that had extractor defenses and was already after you, would you put aside the whole 'holding back changing things dramatically to avoid being sought out by the projections?' rule?

This thread really would be better if we just put SPOILERS in the topic title.

 

[Hunter Rider]

And I do think this movie will go down as remembered. Blade Runner did nothing really new with SFX at the time, it was amazing but nothing new. So I don't think a classic needs to have some new SFX or style like The Matrix to be remembered. I just think the brilliant editing, and story layering, and just the unique idea of the dream world will be enough to keep it in the books. But true only time will tell.

While Blade Runner didn't do anything groundbreaking action-wise with it's SFX, the near future world created for the film was groundbreakingly stunning and has stood the test of time IMO.

 

[The Guard]

What I like most about INCEPTION...is that it was simple. But it made people think. Which tells me people are ready to think about film again. That alone is very exciting to me.

That said, INCEPTION is exactly what I thought it would be. Every moment. It's a movie that sprinkles some dream logic and info into a pseudo heist storyline, with a few interesting cuts between realities, and asks you to have fun with it.

Spoiler

And behind that is an incredibly interesting and powerful story about a man and his wife who lost sight of reality that is almost glossed over, and treated with flashbacks. And maybe, just maybe, that's the movie that should have been made, and to hell with all the heist and getting Fischer to quit stuff. The more I think about INCEPTION, the more I come to that conclusion. Because to me, that's the interesting part of the story. That, and what happened becuase of it.

The acting is solid across the board. A little over the top sometimes, but with concepts like this, you'll have that. Leo has moment of brilliance, and that's really all that needs to be said. He's solid the rest of the time.

I'm already tired of seeing Marion Cotillard in noirish, femme fatale, broken and beaten down roles. Surely she has more range than this. Her performance, until the end, struck me as very one note.

Ellen Page was pretty good, with almost nothing to work with other than stating the obvious to Dom. I didn't really see her namesake Ariadne capitalized on here, unless telling Dom to confront his wife and let her go was her "leading him out of the maze", which is tenuous connection at best. The Greek Ariadne didn't build mazes, she helped people find their way out with a ball of golden yarn. Did we ever see

Spoiler

her totem again?

Joseph Gordon Levitt was good. Performancewise though, he was MUCH better in 500 DAYS OF SUMMER, and almost anything else he's been in, yes, including GI JOE, ostensibly because he has more to work with elsewhere. He seems to be in this movie for

Spoiler

his acrobatics and combat, which are definitely cool, but beyond that, and setting up the dream a little bigger and stairs gags (and helping them wake up), he's just a cog (or a chess piece). That disappointed me quite a bit. There was no real exploration of his friendship or alliance with Cobb. There just wasn't much going on for his character in this movie. People were saying he stole scenes. He didn't steal scenes...because he wasn't ALLOWED to. He had his OWN scenes where he did cool stuff, but I felt like he deserved a bit more as a character.

Cillian Murphy, on the other hand, was fantastic with relatively little to do, and I really, by the end of the film, thought

Spoiler

maybe he should have been the lead actor, and played Dom Cobb instead of DeCaprio..

Tom Hardy was apparently meant to fill Heath Ledger's shoes since Ledger couldn't be there. That isn't mean to be snide, just an observation. I really enjoyed watching him.

Tom Berenger was just sort of there.

Michael Caine was ok, and served to introduce the idea that .

Spoiler

Dom was losing touch with reality

The story is interesting enough, and has a few wonderful elements, although it's very straightforward, despite attempts to make it seem complex. The Nolans are FANTASTIC idea men. They are not great writers. Oh, the writing is ok. The dialogue is fairly average, with a few fantastic moments. I'm a little surprised it took him ten years to write this. Actually it's really surprising. I thik maybe it took ten years to attain success and get the funding.

I thought the action, while good, wasn't anything precedent setting. A lot of it was fairly standard, though Levitt's

Spoiler

zero gravity fight scene was fantastic. Ditto the special effects. I was actually really disappointed there wasn't more of the moving cities, playing with dream reality, etc. It seemed like after the initial scenes, they kind of forgot to do anything along those lines, except for the flashbacks, and a couple of crumbling buildings..

The score is okay. It's powerful and memorable, to be sure, but that's mostly becase 90 percent of the time it's blaring insistently at you no matter what is going on onscreen. There were several great themes, though, especially toward the end.

I felt like the science of this movie, if it was going to explain everything else, needed some work. How exactly are they sharing dreams/ideas again? Oh. .

Spoiler

The army..

INCEPTION has three flaws/disappointments in my mind:

-A TON of exposition. This isn't a flaw because it breaks screenwriting convention, but because it's clumsily handled much of the time.

-No character development for the supporting cast. Even Fischer and

Spoiler

his father's relationship.

, while beautifully acted, was very thin and generic. The potential of actors like Page and Leviltt were almost wasted, and could have been used to strengthen the themes and heighten Cobb's own character arc. No one's saying we need to know every detail about every character, but something would have been nice. I don't see them being defined by their personalities, because they had no personalities. They were just actors, cogs, or chess pieces.

-Other than Dom's issue, there's no puzzle or mystery about what's going on, and as such, the tension feels artificial and manufactured (I know it always is, but this really felt that way). Everything is explained and overtly set up, and as a result, INCEPTION, unlike a dream, is incredibly predictable. It broadcasts every single thing it's about to reveal. Every. Single. Thing. The fact that they broadcast

Spoiler

the nigh-climactic "kick" sequence is a CRIME. I was sitting there going "Why the hell did you TELL me what's going to happen on the bridge an hour before the end of the film?".

There's been a lot of talk about how layered and complex this movie is. There are layers, but they're not that complex.

Spoiler

The dream layers aren't really layers of meaning, they're scenes/plot points designed to set up the "multiple kicks". Essentially, they're just other scenes designed to raise the stakes (which are higher regarvdless in the lower dream levels), where the characters are sleeping and there's a couple bad guys trying to kill them. That isn't, to me, particulary deep or interesting. Far more interesting was the nature of time as they went into deeper dreamstates, and the stakes they faced therein.

As such, I'm not sure what people mean when they say their mind was blown (granted, I had a headache from the music at the end). Could the average person really not follow this movie? It was pretty straightforward, the movie almost blantantly sets up and hints at every single element before its revealed...and it even slowed down and cut back and forth to show you what was going to happen. I'm not just not seeing what was so hard to understand or follow about it.

This movie isn't THAT intelligent or deep. It's not a movie that some people shouldn't "get". This isn't, for instance, something on the level of WATCHMEN that can be deconstructed to any real degree. There are some obvious moments there, and the other meanings you get out of it are the meanings you put into it, which is a nice approach. With those lines about filling dreamspace, Nolan is going 2001, and commenting on the nature of film interpretation. Or is he? Luckily it wasn't a pretentious film, though I didn't expect it to be.

Spoiler

The "was it all a dream" ending, though we've seen it so many times before, is exactly what it had to be. Believe what you want to believe, about the nature of reality, dreams, life and death, etc.

What makes this movie special is its emotional relevance. Not its emotions, neccessarily, but its relevance to real life by means of fantastical exploration. That's what movies have largely been missing since, oh, the 80's, ever since they became steeped in realism. The movie is a commentary on

Spoiler

letting go of things we care about and cling to, and dreaming and wishing and life and death. .

And therein lies its brilliance. It's simplicity and accessibility to almost anyone. That's what movies, regardless of the characters being utilized, should be. Equalizers. An exploration of our common qualities even as some of the characters have fantastic elements.

 

[bane]

God damn, just came back from the cinema...The 3rd act was just, WOW.
People should go see it, just to see that cinema still has something original to offer!

 

[The Spawn]

The movie was 2 hrs and 28 minutes long. Character development for Adrianne AND Arthur would have added at least an hour to that.

The film was already on thin ice with the average movier goer and their inability to hang on for a mental ride going 160 mph.

Nolan didn't need to get them antsy sitting in their chair for that long too.

You really think the lack of character development for the rest of the team hurt the movie? Or do you think it was a missed opportunity?

Maybe they can make you a web comic or something.

 

[Heretic]

Regarding people saying it is impossible for a viewer to truly "get" the movie.

Here's the deal...

The film is straightforward in it's approach. There is NEVER a moment during the climax section where you should be wondering where you are or who is dreaming or anything like that.

Then the very last scene comes. That scene is ambiguous and open to interpretation. So, you can "get" the film completely and have a totally different view of the ending (and all that would include) than someone else.

We can have a never-ending discussion about the impact of the last scene and how it plays on the hour before it...but there is NO need to debate "were they asleep" or "who was dreaming when they were in the snowy part" or anything like that. If we take the movie for what it says (disregarding the last scene) then there is absolutely no debate that needs to be done, and any confusion a person has about who is where and what is happening is entirely their own fault.

But of course...that last scene does throw everything for a loop...if you interpret it that way (which I don't). There is no right or wrong answer regarding that final scene and it's implications, until and if Nolan clarifies. It is a reasonable and potentially fun debate topic.

But seriously...the rest of this "it was too confusing" garbage needs to stop.

NOTE: I am referring mainly to the public at large who I am speaking with in real life, not one particular person on this board.

 

[Heretic]

The movie was 2 hrs and 28 minutes long. Character development for Adrianne AND Arthur would have added at least an hour to that.

The film was already on thin ice with the average movier goer and their inability to hang on for a mental ride going 160 mph.

Nolan didn't need to get them antsy sitting in their chair for that long too.

You really think the lack of character development for the rest of the team hurt the movie? Or do you think it was a missed opportunity?

Maybe they can make you a web comic or something.

Every character in the movie got enough time for the viewer to understand basically who they are. This was not an origin story about the concept. When the movie begins, the ability to enter dreams is not a secret, it is a profitable business known about worldwide. There is a school that helps teach people to do it. Ellen Page's character does not need extra time devoted to why she is doing what she is doing because clearly it was her goal in life to do it or she wouldnt be in school learning how to do it. Yes, the character part was a bit rushed...but it didnt need to be slow.

 

[The Spawn]

Just tell them that Nolan is a straightforward director/writer...then, tell them to Netflix The Prestige.

 

[bane]

Actually my brother was dissapointed that Inception wasn't as min****ing as he wanted the movie to be, LOL

 

[Hunter Rider]

I thought the action, while good, wasn't anything precedent setting. A lot of it was fairly standard, though Levitt's

Spoiler

zero gravity fight scene was fantastic. Ditto the special effects. I was actually really disappointed there wasn't more of the moving cities, playing with dream reality, etc. It seemed like after the initial scenes, they kind of forgot to do anything along those lines, except for the flashbacks, and a couple of crumbling buildings..

Spoiler

Despite your usual unfortunate knack for never presenting your admittedly well written review as an opinion as opposed to a dissertation to the rest of us scrubs, I will say I agree with you on this part, I thought that when things got crazy later on we'd see more examples of the world changing and shifting as part of the action sequences.