Cindy Sheehan has really lost her mind.

[War Lord]

are you on crack? I had to ask, because this will increase the value of your home. when you sold your home you would get that money back. dude just go back and read the plan. under my plan within a couple decades it would be on every single building in America, and it would be very, very, very cheap. it wouldn't matter where you lived. there would always be free energy. yes it's an investment in the future. kind of like NASA. actually my plan would use less tax dollars than the Mars Mission or even what the total cost of the war in Iraq will be.

There is no guarentee that homes are alwas going to increase in value. Many people think that homes in many parts of the country are already over priced and when they start to lose value, it'll be a steep dive.

And you want people to risk an extra $70 grand when they might lose their shirts as is?

 

[Spider-Bite]

oh geez, forget it.

 

[Spider-Bite]

There is no guarentee that homes are alwas going to increase in value. Many people think that homes in many parts of the country are already over priced and when they start to lose value, it'll be a steep dive.

And you want people to risk an extra $70 grand when they might lose their shirts as is?

oh please. are you doing this on purpose?

oh my god. I can't believe this. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm not explaining it simple enough. I don't know. the solar panels themselves are worth money. you charge the person buying your home the cost of those.

dude what is wrong with you?

how old are you?

 

[War Lord]

OMG!

I have been saying the whole time, that our govenrment needs to drive down the costs. Read my plan. nothing in there is a lie. it's a plan to make the cost go down! It would happen.

You can't drive down costs by government fiat. Costs of solar power will only go down when the technology improves and the material costs come down. The only thing the government has been known for are $12,000 dollar hammers and 5 grand toilet bowls.

 

[War Lord]

oh please. are you doing this on purpose?

oh my god. I can't believe this. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm not explaining it simple enough. I don't know. the solar panels themselves are worth money. you charge the person buying your home the cost of those.

dude what is wrong with you?

how old are you?

Doesn't matter how old I am. I've studied economics in general and have a pretty good idea on how it works. It is only worth the money if you can make the money back in its entirety. The only way to get $70,000 in solar panelling back is if you stay in the same home for 25 years. If you move sooner, you've lost whatever money you haven't gotten back yet.

 

[War Lord]

Oh look, interest rates are set to climb, so your 70 grand mortgage will go from a $386 payment to $494.

 

[Spider-Bite]

You can't drive down costs by government fiat. Costs of solar power will only go down when the technology improves and the material costs come down. The only thing the government has been known for are $12,000 dollar hammers and 5 grand toilet bowls.

they aren't currently on a scale of mass production. the governemnt puts them on that scale with a government contract. the governement should buy 4 million of them to be built over the coursre of the next 4 years. they just put them on house for middle class home owners. those homeowners get them for free.
we announce that 4 years from now we will offer another government contract to whoever can meet the same standards but with the lowest price.
once that date arrives and we sign this new governemtn contract with whatever company wins it, we announce that again 4 years from now we will do it again. That should be the last government contract for this.

not to mention that what I proposed about car energy standards would promote the sale of solar panel roofing.

8 years from now we pass a law that goes into effect 4 years after that, that all buildings manufactured after that date have to come with this. by then the cost should be half of what it is now. their incresaed house payment will be made up for by their lack of an electric bill. not to mention if they buy one of those cars they wont have to buy gas anymore either.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Doesn't matter how old I am. I've studied economics in general and have a pretty good idea on how it works. It is only worth the money if you can make the money back in its entirety. The only way to get $70,000 in solar panelling back is if you stay in the same home for 25 years. If you move sooner, you've lost whatever money you haven't gotten back yet.

that's not how it works. this would only give you a more valuable house. when you sell your house you don't lose all that money. you get what you paid for it. you would get what you paid for the solar panel roofing.

 

[War Lord]

they aren't currently on a scale of mass production. the governemnt puts them on that scale with a government contract. the governement should buy 4 million of them to be built over the coursre of the next 4 years. they just put them on house for middle class home owners. those homeowners get them for free.
we announce that 4 years from now we will offer another government contract to whoever can meet the same standards but with the lowest price.
once that date arrives and we sign this new governemtn contract with whatever company wins it, we announce that again 4 years from now we will do it again.

not to mention that what I proposed about car energy standards would promote the sale of solar panel roofing.

8 years from now we pass a law that goes into effect 4 years after that, that all buildings manufactured after that date have to come with this. by then the cost should be half of what it is now.

The only cost savings in such a situation would come from forcing manufacturers into cutting their profits not because they're cutting the costs of the materials, because they can't until the costs of the material comes down on it's own.

So, basically your plan entails forcing manufacturers to cut their profits and force taxpayers to pay for a very expensive program, despite the fact that most would receive no material benefit of the program for many years, not to mention that government programs are almost always hugely beareaucratic and slow-moving.

Well, good luck.

 

[War Lord]

that's not how it works. this would only give you a more valuable house. when you sell your house you don't lose all that money. you get what you paid for it. you would get what you paid for the solar panel roofing.

It's only a more valuable house if somebody is willing to pay a higher price. Many people think houses are currently over priced.

 

[Spider-Bite]

The only cost savings in such a situation would come from forcing manufacturers into cutting their profits not because they're cutting the costs of the materials, because they can't until the costs of the material comes down on it's own.

So, basically your plan entails forcing manufacturers to cut their profits and force taxpayers to pay for a very expensive program, despite the fact that most would receive no material benefit of the program for many years, not to mention that government programs are almost always hugely beareaucratic and slow-moving.

Well, good luck.

your right we wouldn't benefit for years. We can't always live in the here and now. That gets you nowhere! We have to invest in the future. That is the difference between democrats and republicans. republicans live in the here and now, and democrats look to build a better future.

and no I wouldn't be forcing anybody to do anything against their will. they don't have to accept the contract if they don't want to. they can sit by and let somebody else make all the profit. Why they would do that is beyond me. Most businesses prefer to make as much money as possible.

MASS PRODUCTION WILL LOWER THE PRICE!
THINK ABOUT CALCULATORS, DVD PLAYERS, COMPUTERS.

None of them cost what they used to. Especially computers. A computer like the one I got for a grand, would have costed as much as a house 20 years ago.

and this plan would cost less tax dollars than the Iraq war, but with actual benefits besides death and destruction. if you want change you invest in it.

 

[Spider-Bite]

It's only a more valuable house if somebody is willing to pay a higher price. Many people think houses are currently over priced.

they still buy them. your grasping now. your totally grasping. I have only lived in this house for 2 years. down the street a house was just bought. downt he other street another house was just bought. people don't like sleeping outside. they usually live indoors in America.

 

[Spider-Bite]

If we don't offer these government contracts Enron will buy the rights and take it out of production. yes that is what republicans want to happen. that's not what I want to happen.

energy companies and oil companies don't want this on the market.

 

[War Lord]

your right we wouldn't benefit for years. We can't always live in the here and now. That gets you nowhere! We have to invest in the future. That is the difference between democrats and republicans. republicans live in the here and now, and democrats look to build a better future.

and no I wouldn't be forcing anybody to do anything against their will. they don't have to accept the contract if they don't want to. they can sit by and let somebody else make all the profit. Why they would do that is beyond me. Most businesses prefer to make as much money as possible.

MASS PRODUCTION WILL LOWER THE PRICE!
THINK ABOUT CALCULATORS, DVD PLAYERS, COMPUTERS.

None of them cost what they used to. Especially computers. A computer like the one I got for a grand, would have costed as much as a house 20 years ago.

and this plan would cost less tax dollars than the Iraq war, but with actual benefits besides death and destruction. if you want change you invest in it.

Mass production only lowers the price because the manufacturer agrees to lower his profit margin in hopes of increasing distribution. It's a balance that by selling lots of things, the manufacturer hopes to make a sufficient net profit overall.

The reason why calculators, dvd players, computers, etc, cost so little is because the manufacturer is not making a ton of profit on each item and each item is manufactured through automation.

As technology improves, the costs of solar power will come down, but it's not going to go into mass production until the manufacturers see that the costs of making it has come down sufficiently. There's no point in setting up multi-billion dollar factory to mass produce solar power conduits until solar power itself has reached mass appeal.

There is no way that any company is going to spend the billions setting up a factory for just a four year contract from the government with no guarentee of anything beyond that four years.

 

[War Lord]

they still buy them. your grasping now. your totally grasping. I have only lived in this house for 2 years. down the street a house was just bought. downt he other street another house was just bought. people don't like sleeping outside. they usually live indoors in America.

What is happening currently is not a guide to the future. People will buy the houses, but if the housing market has slowed down, they won't buy the houses at ever-increasing prices. They will buy them with the expectation that the current owner will take a margin of loss.

 

[War Lord]

If we don't offer these government contracts Enron will buy the rights and take it out of production. yes that is what republicans want to happen. that's not what I want to happen.

energy companies and oil companies don't want this on the market.

Enron is more or less out of business.

Let me explain oil companies to you. Oil companies are little more than energy carriers. They carry energy in a form that is usuable to you and I and they sell this energy in a place that is convenient for you to buy. That's it.

Oil companies don't really care about what form that energy comes in, as long as they can sell it to you. So, whether it's oil, natural gas, biofuel, hydrogen, or whatever, it's all the same to the oil companies.

 

[The Overlord]

Every American, except convicts in some states has the right to vote.

Thanks to the New York Times, any terrorists on our soil is no longer using the telephone or internet to communicate. In other words, thanks to the New York Times, the terrorists will have an easier time launching the next terrorist attack, because we now have less access into what they are doing.

Just so you know, while congress in general was not knowledgeable about the wire tapping, the members that needed to know, knew. Also, just so you know, it is the president's perogative when it comes to national security, not congress.

Just as the Fore Fathers determined.

If the last PM (Paul Martin) had that kind power, you would have likely screamed blue murder.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I missed that part. What bush did was against the VISA laws passed in the 70's. The people that needed to know were the judges on the VISA court and they did not know.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Enron is more or less out of business.

Let me explain oil companies to you. Oil companies are little more than energy carriers. They carry energy in a form that is usuable to you and I and they sell this energy in a place that is convenient for you to buy. That's it.

Oil companies don't really care about what form that energy comes in, as long as they can sell it to you. So, whether it's oil, natural gas, biofuel, hydrogen, or whatever, it's all the same to the oil companies.

they do care about profit. under my plan within 40 or 50 years every individual American would be energy inependant from the energy companies. they would be out of business. they don't want american homes powering themselves and the cars parked in the driveway at the same time.

 

[The Overlord]

Enron is more or less out of business.

Let me explain oil companies to you. Oil companies are little more than energy carriers. They carry energy in a form that is usuable to you and I and they sell this energy in a place that is convenient for you to buy. That's it.

Oil companies don't really care about what form that energy comes in, as long as they can sell it to you. So, whether it's oil, natural gas, biofuel, hydrogen, or whatever, it's all the same to the oil companies.

It would be cheaper for them to maintaim the status quo and all its problems rather than invest in new enegry terchnologies.

 

[War Lord]

If the last PM (Paul Martin) had that kind power, you would have likely screamed blue murder.

The Prime Minister of Canada has more power in his country than the POTUS.

 

[War Lord]

I missed that part. What bush did was against the VISA laws passed in the 70's. The people that needed to know were the judges on the VISA court and they did not know.

It's FISA.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008091
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110007944
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007940

 

[War Lord]

they do care about profit. under my plan within 40 or 50 years every individual American would be energy inependant from the energy companies. they would be out of business. they don't want american homes powering themselves and the cars parked in the driveway at the same time.

Businesses do care about profit, because another word for profit is income and you're telling businesses to cut their income, which means to ultimately lay off workers or outsource or hiring illegals to work for $3.5, if they want your business.

No business is going to want your offer and you'll find very, very few takers because a government contract that runs out within five years with little profit showing for it is not worth having.

Under your plan a government beareaucracy would grow beyond any recognizable dimension and be a law unto itself.

 

[War Lord]

It would be cheaper for them to maintaim the status quo and all its problems rather than invest in new enegry terchnologies.

It can be only cheaper for so long. The costs of solar power and hydrogen have been dropping, while the costs of fossil fuels have been rising. At some point, they will become equal and then the alternatives will become desirable.

This kind of change has happened before. Before petroleum, there was whale oil and before whale oil, there was coal. We will move from petroleum to other alternatives, probably within our lifetimes.

 

[roach]

they do care about profit. under my plan within 40 or 50 years every individual American would be energy inependant from the energy companies. they would be out of business. they don't want american homes powering themselves and the cars parked in the driveway at the same time.

and you want Energy companies to roger up to a plan that would render them obsolete in 40-50 years??????
You expect any american to take it in the rear for a pay off that will be 40-50 years down the road?????