Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[Flint Marko]

I certainly think that's achievable with this film, but unlikely given the circumstances.

 

[The Batman]

Yup. I know a good/great WW film probably won't happen under the current DCEU, but I'm not gonna jump for joy at a mediocre film either.

I'm just gonna look at, say "meh", and keep hoping that they don't find a way to mess up Aquaman or The Batman.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

But so many were fine with mediocre Marvel first timers.

The comic book movie genre has evolved considerably even from the late 00's and early 10's. The standards have risen.

Look at Ant-man. I don't think it's any worse than Thor or Cap and yet was judged harsher than both.

 

[Ivan Drago]

I actually consider Ant-man one of the weaker MCU movies. The first half of the movie has an insane amount of exposition, gets really tiresome after a while. It's scene after scene of a character explaining something.

The movie is just passable to me up until the third act, where exciting things start happening.

I definitely prefer Thor 1 and Cap 1 over it.

 

[Timebomb]

I think origin stories are in themselves pretty generic. It's the flairs and nuances that set them apart as well of story telling execution. However, there are only so many unique ways to tell the story of average person becomes superhero. I agree that as long as the story is great and told well, I can accept an origin movie being somewhat formulaic. I do WW adds enough personal nuances to make it somewhat original but if it's well told and executed then I'm happy. However, I believe the plot will follow the below

Young Amazon trains as elite warrior (the one)
She rescues the good soldier
He shows her the horrors of war
She wants to help save the world
Discovers insidious plot by Ares to perpetrate the war
Stops Ares but loses the good soldier
Returns to exile until some photograph makes her come out of hiding.

 

[2kt09]

Finn Jones just pulled the "not for the critics, for the fans" card.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/12/finn-...ritical-mauling-of-marvels-iron-fist-6504850/

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A good movie with a compelling plot that uses the character, one of the most iconic in genre and not just Ant Man, to her full potential or come as close to it as possible.

Marvel managed to make a high quality film out of Guardians of the Galaxy, I don't think I'm asking for too much. Let's not pretend origin films can't be great, either. Superman: The Movie, Iron Man, Deadpool, and the aformentioned GOTG are some of the most loved films in the genre.

What about this doesn't look to have a compelling plot or doesn't use the character of Diana to her fullest?

Batman Begins is the best origin flick imo. And if we are going to get into how one uses a character, as much as I love Superman: The Movie, that last act is... yeah.

 

[GeckoMoria]

The comic book movie genre has evolved considerably even from the late 00's and early 10's. The standards have risen.

Look at Ant-man. I don't think it's any worse than Thor or Cap and yet was judged harsher than both.

How was it judged harsher? it has better RT critic and audience scores tan the first Thor or Cap films. And it grossed more. Where was the harsh rception?

 

[Ivan Drago]

Finn Jones just pulled the "not for the critics, for the fans" card.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/12/finn-...ritical-mauling-of-marvels-iron-fist-6504850/

Lol it's BvS and SS all over again.

I don't blame him though. If your movie/show is being panned, what else are you supposed to say?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The comic book movie genre has evolved considerably even from the late 00's and early 10's. The standards have risen.

Look at Ant-man. I don't think it's any worse than Thor or Cap and yet was judged harsher than both.

Ant-Man is a lot better then thor and Cap imo. But it was being judged on the fact that they fired one of the best directors on the planet. And that will always be a problem for me. That as much as I like it, it could have been, should have been better.

I actually consider Ant-man one of the weaker MCU movies. The first half of the movie has an insane amount of exposition, gets really tiresome after a while. It's scene after scene of a character explaining something.

The movie is just passable to me up until the third act, where exciting things start happening.

I definitely prefer Thor 1 and Cap 1 over it.

If Ant-Man has a lot of exposition, what does Iron Man and Thor have? Because Iron Man has plenty of scenes dedicated to the art form. Thor is almost all exposition outside of the fight scenes until the Warriors Three and Sif arrive.

 

[Sithborg]

Finn Jones just pulled the "not for the critics, for the fans" card.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/12/finn-...ritical-mauling-of-marvels-iron-fist-6504850/

Well, thats not a good sign.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Never, ever use a DC excuse.

 

[Flint Marko]

I actually thought that excuse originated with Miles Teller and FFINO. Either way... yikes.

 

[TeeKay]

Finn Jones just pulled the "not for the critics, for the fans" card.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/12/finn-...ritical-mauling-of-marvels-iron-fist-6504850/

Smh. That's a cop out excuse. Why do actors/directors always use this excuse whenever their project is not reviewed well?

I think origin stories are in themselves pretty generic. It's the flairs and nuances that set them apart as well of story telling execution. However, there are only so many unique ways to tell the story of average person becomes superhero. I agree that as long as the story is great and told well, I can accept an origin movie being somewhat formulaic. I do WW adds enough personal nuances to make it somewhat original but if it's well told and executed then I'm happy. However, I believe the plot will follow the below

Young Amazon trains as elite warrior (the one)
She rescues the good soldier
He shows her the horrors of war
She wants to help save the world
Discovers insidious plot by Ares to perpetrate the war
Stops Ares but loses the good soldier
Returns to exile until some photograph makes her come out of hiding.

I think that's why Dr Strange worked so well despite having a predictable and generic plot (yes it was subverted at the end with the clever use of time). The visuals and performances made up for what was a rather mediocre script if we're being honest.

 

[Ivan Drago]

Ant-Man is a lot better then thor and Cap imo. But it was being judged on the fact that they fired one of the best directors on the planet. And that will always be a problem for me. That as much as I like it, it could have been, should have been better.


If Ant-Man has a lot of exposition, what does Iron Man and Thor have? Because Iron Man has plenty of scenes dedicated to the art form. Thor is almost all exposition outside of the fight scenes until the Warriors Three and Sif arrive.

The exposition bits are better spread out in Thor or Cap. Sometimes in Ant-man it just feels like scene after scene of Hank Pym explaining something to Scott.

The movie doesn't really hit it's groove for me until the heist actually starts.

 

[Timebomb]

Well, thats not a good sign.

Never is. The fans will have their say in a week.

 

[The Batman]

What about this doesn't look to have a compelling plot or doesn't use the character of Diana to her fullest?

Seeing as how I've made no actual judgment on the film we're getting, I don't understand the point of this question. All I've essentially said is that I wouldn't be satisfied with a mediocre WW film. Never said that the film itself would be mediocre or that it looks mediocre.

 

[TeeKay]

Never is. The fans will have their say in a week.

I have a suspicion the IF fans will be in agreement with the critics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The exposition bits are better spread out in Thor or Cap. Sometimes in Ant-man it just feels like scene after scene of Hank Pym explaining something to Scott.

The movie doesn't really hit it's groove for me until the heist actually starts.

I didn't mention Cap, though Cap has its own problems. Like missing a second act. What you just described is actually what happens in Thor. Everyone is explaining things. Thor, Odin, Loki, Jane, Selvig, Frigga, Laufey, heck even the Warriors and Sif. Which is crazy when you consider the movie has a prologue.

The best thing about Ant-Man exposition is the brilliance in which it is delivered a lot of the time. Luis is great at this. The training montage is great. Well written comedy helps, a lot imo.

Also how they handle Hope and her relationship with Hank makes me interested when they delve into her past.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Seeing as how I've made no actual judgment on the film we're getting, I don't understand the point of this question. All I've essentially said is that I wouldn't be satisfied with a mediocre WW film. Never said that the film itself would be mediocre or that it looks mediocre.

So then why address mediocrity?

 

[Tony Stark]

Just to clarify what I said, I wasn't talking about story wise this being a Thor + Cap TFA, I'm talking visually it's the same friggin movie. In Thor we see Odin with Child Thor talking about his destiny with a shot of Mjolnir in the background, here we have child Diana with her Mother talking about her destiny to wield the sword of Athena. Plus not only does she have her "Mjolnir" shots, she's also got her own round CA type shield shown doing the same type of moves, including the "superhero landing" with the Shield. The scenes of her riding the horse through the forest are straight out of TFA.

This film from what I've seen is so visually unoriginal it's not even funny. Whatever similarities Iron Man, Ant-man and Doctor Strange have they are visually in completely different worlds.

This film looks terrible to me, and that's sad because we've needed a Wonder Woman movie for a long time and this just seems disappointing.

 

[harryoscop]

Finn Jones just pulled the "not for the critics, for the fans" card.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/12/finn-...ritical-mauling-of-marvels-iron-fist-6504850/

 

[DarthSkywalker]

One thing I do wonder about casting Gal. Did they not have her run lines beyond the basics? Because for some reason, her English seems to be getting worse. I don't know if her problem is emoting or that she doesn't really speak English very well. There were these adorable videos of her Isla Fisher when their movie came out. She had such a hard time and I getting that here as well.

They are going with a sincere Diana here and I am not getting that from Gal with her lines in the trailers.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just to clarify what I said, I wasn't talking about story wise this being a Thor + Cap TFA, I'm talking visually it's the same friggin movie. In Thor we see Odin with Child Thor talking about his destiny with a shot of Mjolnir in the background, here we have child Diana with her Mother talking about her destiny to wield the sword of Athena. Plus not only does she have her "Mjolnir" shots, she's also got her own round CA type shield shown doing the same type of moves, including the "superhero landing" with the Shield. The scenes of her riding the horse through the forest are straight out of TFA.

This film from what I've seen is so visually unoriginal it's not even funny. Whatever similarities Iron Man, Ant-man and Doctor Strange have they are visually in completely different worlds.

This film looks terrible to me, and that's sad because we've needed a Wonder Woman movie for a long time and this just seems disappointing.

In terms of visuals, I'd say Wonder Woman easily "looks better" then any of those films. In terms of things that match up, it looks a lot better. You bring up the sword scene. Compare that to the obvious set in Thor. It looks a lot better. Paradise looks a lot better then Asgard. Diana in action looks a lot better.

 

[TeeKay]

Just to clarify what I said, I wasn't talking about story wise this being a Thor + Cap TFA, I'm talking visually it's the same friggin movie. In Thor we see Odin with Child Thor talking about his destiny with a shot of Mjolnir in the background, here we have child Diana with her Mother talking about her destiny to wield the sword of Athena. Plus not only does she have her "Mjolnir" shots, she's also got her own round CA type shield shown doing the same type of moves, including the "superhero landing" with the Shield. The scenes of her riding the horse through the forest are straight out of TFA.

This film from what I've seen is so visually unoriginal it's not even funny. Whatever similarities Iron Man, Ant-man and Doctor Strange have they are visually in completely different worlds.

This film looks terrible to me, and that's sad because we've needed a Wonder Woman movie for a long time and this just seems disappointing.

To be fair you can draw a lot of similarities and comparisons with most of these CBMs coming out today. It's inevitable. Most recent was BvS and CW. One did the premise better which made the other's flaws stick out like a sore thumb. If WW is a good movie. Critics won't care. However, if it isn't, they;ll draw the "well CA:TFA / Thor did this better" etc etc.