Co-producer Stefan Brunner interview about Wolverine and The X-Men

[Carlo Comicus]

http://www.comicus.it/view.php?section=interviste&id=191

Italian and english version

 

[TheVileOne]

Great interview, thanks for the link.

When and how did the project for this new series start?

After agreeing to produce a key property from the Marvel catalogue, the producers mutually agreed upon a version of the X-Men in which Wolverine would take the center stage. From there, the literary development phase began under the direction of First ServeToonz producers and creative director, working alongside story editor Greg Johnson.

Is there any connection between this new cartoon and the previous Marvel Mutants animated series?

In terms of story, this series stands independently, although new connections between certain characters are revealed in this series which don't come to light in any other series or movies. The intent was to stylistically return to the spirit of the first animated series aired on Fox in the early 90's, in which the stories and characters followed the literary tradition closely.

As it seems from the trailers, the series begins immediately with a real cliffhanger. What kind of consequences will this tragic prologue have on the series characters?

Indeed, the series starts with a bang setting the scene for the upcoming war between the X-Men and the brotherhood leaving the series protagonists struggling to look for meaning in their lives as X-Men and reunite following the mysterious disappearance of Professor X. All characters will need to grow responsibility and understand their importance for mankind; above all, it will be up to Wolverine to take charge and fill their mentors shoes, until they can find a way to bring him back.

Who was responsible for the graphic definition of the various characters and what directives did you receive from Marvel?

The production worked naturally very close with its contacts at Marvel, allowing Marvel to be involved in every step of the development and production of the series. The series itself has been produced/designed by Kickstart Entertainment and Toonz India, with top U.S. action/adventure artists and key artists from Toonz, with the animation work having been located in South Korea and Singapore.

What kind of stories and atmosphere are we going to experience?

Whereas the episodes will feature an action-packed, fast-paced and rather dark atmosphere throughout the series, the X-Men’s efforts to reunite, their fight against Magneto and the Brotherhood and thus the characters individual development following the loss of Professor X will act as emotional counterweight.

Will the episodes be self-standing or there will be a general subplot relating all of them?

The episodes will be told in a horizontal fashion with an ongoing story development over the season; notwithstanding, individual vertical story lines will also be part of most episodes.

What will be the main differences between this project and the comic series it inspires to?

If one follows the original comic books, we know that Wolverine is a very unlikely leader for the X-Men, since he operated outside of their rules, while logically Cyclops would take control. In this series, we have Wolverine as an uncertain leader, who develops leadership qualities along the way, while trying to bring a "destroyed Cyclops" back into the fold again. We simultaneously remain very faithful to the overall treatment of the characters in the comic series, but break new ground through plot constructs that allow for more character conflict and drama that major fans haven't seen before. New fans will be able to experience the X-Men in a new way, with a rebel as its leader and a story arc that brings us from chaos to order.

What is your reference target?

We are targeting the boys’ audience between 8 and 14, harmonizing to the college-level comic book fans. We keep the content suitable for the teen/twen audience, without denying them the drama that made the X-Men movies a big hit among the very same target.


[by Redazione Comicus] [20-06-08]

 

[Slim_X]

I really liked reading this:
"In this series, we have Wolverine as an uncertain leader, who develops leadership qualities along the way, while trying to bring a "destroyed Cyclops" back into the fold again."

 

[Retroman]

http://www.comicus.it/view.php?section=interviste&id=191

Italian and english version

Nice interview

Only two months to go...

I really liked reading this:
"In this series, we have Wolverine as an uncertain leader, who develops leadership qualities along the way, while trying to bring a "destroyed Cyclops" back into the fold again."

Sounds like something they could (maybe should) have done in X-Men 3.

 

[dsfjr1190]

Cyclops.... get well soon. The world needs you.

 

[TheVileOne]

That's why I'm cool with the concept of the series. Because Wolverine is basically the last person you want leading the X-men. And in this series . . . he is the last person. Part of it is that he's not a good leader.

 

[Angamb]

that sounds better.

I hope Cyclops ends being a leader too, at least in a later season.

 

[Dread]

The interview seems pretty good so far. I'm glad the show is embracing a more interconnected serial storytelling format like SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN. It is the best way to do a serial storyline, and all the anime imports do it.

Stefan Brunner does neglect one detail; that Storm has led the X-Men for incredibly long stretches of time when neither Xavier or Cyclops were available. Whedon in AXM even made it a point to quickly suggest that unlike Scott, Storm actually "earned" her right to be leader. Granted, I like Cyclops more than Storm, but it is a slight quibble. The teaser seemed to imply that while Xavier and Jean are seemingly "killed" in the explosion at the Mansion, that Ororo is wounded. There were times in the comics where Logan respected Storm's leadership a lot more than he did Cyclops'.

He does bring up a point that it will be a new thing. Of course, people attuned to the movies will figure that a "cool man" Logan seeming to have more leadership chops than Cyclops is hardly something new; Movie Wolverine was showing up Cyclops pretty much by the time they all went in the jet. And I doubt that Wolverine's leadership tenure will end, otherwise, as I have said elsewhere, the show's title won't make sense. It is like in SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS, you presumed that Spider-Man was the leader of the "Spider-Friends", and he was.

The reality of Logan trying to coax back a "destroyed Cyclops" is that it will naturally cause the audience to believe that Logan is a better X-Man than Scott is, because he's not a whiner or a quitter. Granted, most of the target audience probably believes that anyway, so it isn't a major deal. The new thing of course is that Logan and Cyclops' roles will be switched and neither of them cater to the character's strengths, although Logan has usually proved to be a more flexible character than Cyclops.

In the end, the show will provide what the movies have and the comics have for a while; that Wolverine is the be-all to the X-Men and without him at the center, the team is literally not worth continuing. The trick of course will be to see how the show handles it. They at least have hindsight to see where the movies stumbled, and a smaller audience to please.

 

[The Weather God]

Stefan Brunner does neglect one detail; that Storm has led the X-Men for incredibly long stretches of time when neither Xavier or Cyclops were available. Whedon in AXM even made it a point to quickly suggest that unlike Scott, Storm actually "earned" her right to be leader. Granted, I like Cyclops more than Storm, but it is a slight quibble. The teaser seemed to imply that while Xavier and Jean are seemingly "killed" in the explosion at the Mansion, that Ororo is wounded. There were times in the comics where Logan respected Storm's leadership a lot more than he did Cyclops'.

I'm a bit skeptical about Storm's role in the series. My guess is their trying to find a way to keep Cyclops and her busy or broken enough so that no one will notice their supposed roles in the series. Storm didn't do much in the trailer but I'm guessing she wasn't back with the team because, she wasn't present when the x-team went to find Xavier, she wasn't present when Xavier explained what could happen in the future, and several other points where they showed the whole team she wasn't present. But she wasn't the only one missing so i haven't put too much worry into it. Probably by the time wolverine gets a decent leadership role, only then will they have her come back to the team.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well Storm is taken out of the fold early in the series. And that's kind of the point. The two most likely leaders of the team and Professor Xavier, are gone.

Besides that, in the comics, Cyclops has shown whining and quitting tendencies. He is a whiner and a quitter. He did quit the X-men when he thought Jean was dead.

 

[MoPlaYa]

Great interview..Cant wait for this show!!!

 

[X-Maniac]

Nice interview. Not sure what this series will give us that the previous two didn't but will definitely be watching it.

I blogged about it here:

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2008/06/producer-reveals-details-of-ne.html

...I'm also asking if it's a bit too much Wolverine, yet again. Not sure if I like Storm being taken out of the picture early on either...

 

[TheVileOne]

Storm will more than likely step back in later. She's heavily featured in the promo images. She will more than likely come back in costume.

The show looks to give great screen time to characters who have never been featured at all in animation or movies.

 

[Dread]

I'm a bit skeptical about Storm's role in the series. My guess is their trying to find a way to keep Cyclops and her busy or broken enough so that no one will notice their supposed roles in the series. Storm didn't do much in the trailer but I'm guessing she wasn't back with the team because, she wasn't present when the x-team went to find Xavier, she wasn't present when Xavier explained what could happen in the future, and several other points where they showed the whole team she wasn't present. But she wasn't the only one missing so i haven't put too much worry into it. Probably by the time wolverine gets a decent leadership role, only then will they have her come back to the team.

In the first teaser trailer, Storm appeared near the "blast zone" that hit Xavier (and seemingly killed Jean, too), and Logan appears to be holding her up, so I presumed Ororo is injured, which would explain her absence.

Well Storm is taken out of the fold early in the series. And that's kind of the point. The two most likely leaders of the team and Professor Xavier, are gone.

Besides that, in the comics, Cyclops has shown whining and quitting tendencies. He is a whiner and a quitter. He did quit the X-men when he thought Jean was dead.

I like to think there is more to Cyclops besides whining and quitting. Much like I like to think there is more to Hank Pym besides wife-beating. The problem with some writers is they take one of a character's dark moments sometimes and overdo it, as if that is the only thing that defines them.

Plus, the sting of X-MEN 3 is still a little fresh. They tried this angle with Cyclops, and it resulted in a wasted cameo and a pointless death. While I know the show likely won't do that, it doesn't endear me to the prospect.

I'm all for Wolverine being Mr. Cool. What the show has to overcome is the sense that he does so at the expense of other characters. If you make the other X-Men useless, weak, or underdeveloped, then of course Logan is cooler.

Storm will more than likely step back in later. She's heavily featured in the promo images. She will more than likely come back in costume.

The show looks to give great screen time to characters who have never been featured at all in animation or movies.

Which is cool to fans of Squidboy or Domino, all five of you.

 

[TheVileOne]

I like to think there is more to Cyclops besides whining and quitting. Much like I like to think there is more to Hank Pym besides wife-beating. The problem with some writers is they take one of a character's dark moments sometimes and overdo it, as if that is the only thing that defines them.

It's a hard thing to overlook with Hank Pym you know .

Of course there is more to Cyclops. But its something he's done throughout his history. There's more to Wolverine as well. But you know, fans keep whining about Cyclops getting shafted and whining about the animated series portraying him in a way that's actually faithful to the spirit of the character.

Plus, the sting of X-MEN 3 is still a little fresh. They tried this angle with Cyclops, and it resulted in a wasted cameo and a pointless death. While I know the show likely won't do that, it doesn't endear me to the prospect.

OK.

1. This is not X-men 3.

2. Cyclops role is not a wasted cameo.

3. There more than likely won't be a pointless cyclops death.

4. It feels like you are deliberately setting yourself to dislike it based on X-men 3 which this movie has nothing to do with. I see it as a positive re-version of that dumb scenario as it at least gets Cyclops off his ass, and gives him a good character arc. This is a humiliated, destroyed, and dark Cyclops that has to rebuild himself from the ground up. I find that very compelling.

I'm all for Wolverine being Mr. Cool. What the show has to overcome is the sense that he does so at the expense of other characters. If you make the other X-Men useless, weak, or underdeveloped, then of course Logan is cooler.

I think the story will have to deal with the problem of Wolverine not being a natural leader and having to overcome the problems in being put into a leadership role.

Which is cool to fans of Squidboy or Domino, all five of you.

LOL, when we haven't even seen a SHRED of Sammy Pare in these trailers. We've seen more Colossus than Squidboy in one trailer, yet you go on and on about Colossus in this show nonstop.

How about Polaris for another. Who had like a cup of coffee or something in the 90's show.

 

[The Weather God]

In the first teaser trailer, Storm appeared near the "blast zone" that hit Xavier (and seemingly killed Jean, too), and Logan appears to be holding her up, so I presumed Ororo is injured, which would explain her absence.

Not to sound evil but I actually hope that is the case. Because if there were anyone beside wolverine who could have held the team together after Xavier and Jean's supposed death, it was surely Storm. So I guess if she got injured from the explosion that would explain why she didn't help keep the team together.

 

[Dread]

It's a hard thing to overlook with Hank Pym you know .

But it was something that was dealt with, extenstively, for decades, and both he and Janet recovered from it, and moved on. Then a "someone" showed up in 2004, pretended that it had never been discussed, and now nothing else defines this character.

Of course there is more to Cyclops. But its something he's done throughout his history. There's more to Wolverine as well. But you know, fans keep whining about Cyclops getting shafted and whining about the animated series portraying him in a way that's actually faithful to the spirit of the character.

Cyclops hasn't done that sort of thing nearly as much as people make it seem. X-MEN 3 dredged it up and it is becoming akin to Pym's wife beating.

When I was just getting into X-Men as a teenager, thanks to the 90's show, and was absorbing the Claremont/Wein/Cockrum/Bryne era via reprints, I was astonished to learn that Cyclops wasn't nearly the stiff block of wood from the cartoon. He actually had GUTS. He was actually willing to tell Logan off now and then. But by the end of the 80's, this changed. He took a back seat and hasn't come back. Now of course the franchise owes a lot to Wolverine, and I accept that. He's a great character, too. It just appears that very often, his development comes at the expense of others, and some believe that Wolverine is all there is to the X-Men. Before age 18, I believed that, too. But I matured as an X-fan. Wolverine has his place but I don't think he is the be-all to the franchise, that the rest of the X-Men merely serve as his supporting cast. W&TXM basically reopens that philosphy from the 90's, which is why for some of us, I think, there is hostility. Every other character in the movies who was not Logan got shafted in terms of characterization, and when it seems like a cartoon is about to repeat that, some of us freak.

OK.

1. This is not X-men 3.

2. Cyclops role is not a wasted cameo.

3. There more than likely won't be a pointless cyclops death.

4. It feels like you are deliberately setting yourself to dislike it based on X-men 3 which this movie has nothing to do with. I see it as a positive re-version of that dumb scenario as it at least gets Cyclops off his ass, and gives him a good character arc. This is a humiliated, destroyed, and dark Cyclops that has to rebuild himself from the ground up. I find that very compelling.

To 1,2,3 : I know that. Hence why I stated, "While I know the show likely won't do that, it doesn't endear me to the prospect." I am aware the show isn't X-MEN 3. They will have more airtime and hindsight.

4. The only problem to this "arc" is that it can't end naturally. Cyclops or Storm can't reclaim leadership because Wolverine is the title character. He is literally named before the X-Men in the title. If it ends, then they simply accept his leadership and while Storm will be fine, Cyclops without being leader is much like the Red Ranger who isn't the leader. He then no longer works as a character. Or at least has never worked under that circumstance. Stefan Brunner is very right when he says this is "new ground", but more often than not, trying something with a character that does not play to their strengths doesn't get us quality. It gets us 70's Spy Wonder Woman, or SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED.

But, to the casual audience, Cyclops is just the guy with the eye-beam. So to the target audience, it won't matter.

You can't slap Scott in a trench-coat and make him Gambit. Gambit is Gambit. The moral of the movies was that Wolverine was the supreme X-Man and Cyclops was a coddled, ineffective leader. W&TXM seems to be leaning in that direction too, which is why there is some cause for criticism. X-MEN EVOLUTION was able to keep Scott as the leader of the kids while still making him a dynamic and interesting character, hardly wooden or infallible. It actually helped me like the character more than I had previously.

I think the story will have to deal with the problem of Wolverine not being a natural leader and having to overcome the problems in being put into a leadership role.

I have faith Logan gets over this hump by Season 1. He's Wolverine. No one questions him. Aside for Frost, because she's a ****. It's like arguing with The Fonz.

LOL, when we haven't even seen a SHRED of Sammy Pare in these trailers. We've seen more Colossus than Squidboy in one trailer, yet you go on and on about Colossus in this show nonstop.

Which trailer, pray tell, have we seen more than Colossus punching something for about a half second? We've seen more of Iceman than we have of Colossus, and he wasn't in a group picture. I'd argue in terms of teasers, we've seen as much Squidboy as we have Colossus.

How about Polaris for another. Who had like a cup of coffee or something in the 90's show.

You have me there. Polaris was in one episode of the 90's X-Men, where Iceman returned and they battled X-Factor. It was a good episode. Still, I never cared for her.

Not to sound evil but I actually hope that is the case. Because if there were anyone beside wolverine who could have held the team together after Xavier and Jean's supposed death, it was surely Storm. So I guess if she got injured from the explosion that would explain why she didn't help keep the team together.

Yeah. Plus, to play Devil's Advocate, Storm does respect Wolverine. During the brief time Logan led the X-Men in the comics, it was basically because Storm herself asked him to. Her being on his squad makes sense.

 

[TheVileOne]

But it was something that was dealt with, extenstively, for decades, and both he and Janet recovered from it, and moved on. Then a "someone" showed up in 2004, pretended that it had never been discussed, and now nothing else defines this character.

It does explain why he and Janet never re-married.

Cyclops hasn't done that sort of thing nearly as much as people make it seem. X-MEN 3 dredged it up and it is becoming akin to Pym's wife beating.

It's not that, but Cyclops has a total *****e streak in him. Even the writers that supposedly love Cyclops don't mind making him look like a *****e. Cyclops was basically one of the most important characters when Morrison revised the entire X-line of books.

When I was just getting into X-Men as a teenager, thanks to the 90's show, and was absorbing the Claremont/Wein/Cockrum/Bryne era via reprints, I was astonished to learn that Cyclops wasn't nearly the stiff block of wood from the cartoon. He actually had GUTS. He was actually willing to tell Logan off now and then. But by the end of the 80's, this changed. He took a back seat and hasn't come back. Now of course the franchise owes a lot to Wolverine, and I accept that. He's a great character, too. It just appears that very often, his development comes at the expense of others, and some believe that Wolverine is all there is to the X-Men. Before age 18, I believed that, too. But I matured as an X-fan. Wolverine has his place but I don't think he is the be-all to the franchise, that the rest of the X-Men merely serve as his supporting cast. W&TXM basically reopens that philosphy from the 90's, which is why for some of us, I think, there is hostility. Every other character in the movies who was not Logan got shafted in terms of characterization, and when it seems like a cartoon is about to repeat that, some of us freak.

Go to the movie forums to cry about Logan shafting everybody. These aren't the X-movies. This is a new show. We got two shows where Wolverine generally took a backseat most of the time, where he wasn't the main focus, where Cyclops was basically the leader or groomed as the leader and top dog. This is something different. Just like X-men Evolution was different than X-men, and people were so seething about the X-men being teens in high school again, before ultimately accepting it later on.

To 1,2,3 : I know that. Hence why I stated, "While I know the show likely won't do that, it doesn't endear me to the prospect." I am aware the show isn't X-MEN 3. They will have more airtime and hindsight.

Then you shouldn't be so close-minded. You keep talking about how you don't like this or that about the show. How it doesn't endear even though you don't think it will turn out this way or that way. I am willing to bet you after 13 episodes you will be one of the show's biggest supporters. I will sig bet you .

4. The only problem to this "arc" is that it can't end naturally. Cyclops or Storm can't reclaim leadership because Wolverine is the title character. He is literally named before the X-Men in the title. If it ends, then they simply accept his leadership and while Storm will be fine, Cyclops without being leader is much like the Red Ranger who isn't the leader. He then no longer works as a character. Or at least has never worked under that circumstance. Stefan Brunner is very right when he says this is "new ground", but more often than not, trying something with a character that does not play to their strengths doesn't get us quality. It gets us 70's Spy Wonder Woman, or SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED.

Tommy as White Ranger and Red Ranger = Better leader than Jason as Red Ranger .

Dread, all I can really say is some people totally hated the changes that were made to the X-men in the 70's. Some people also couldn't stand this new character called Wolverine and thought he was ridiculous until he suddenly popped his claws out of his hand for the first time. Some people couldn't stand it when Jean came back from the dead after the Phoenix saga. And for the longest time people complained that Jean was never that good of a character and really didn't have anything going for her besides the Phoenix. Now people hate that Jean is gone and Emma Frost is the new woman in Scott's life and call her a Jean clone and they miss Jean. Etc. Etc.

You can't ignore the circumstances around Spider-man Unlimited. John Semper was a guy who busted his ass to make Spider-man: TAS the excellent, thought out show that it was with great story arcs and continuity. A lot of the problems and drawbacks of that show were due to meddling from Avi Arad. After the show finished, and the Marvel lawsuit that killed Silver Surfer's second season as well as the excellent looking Captain America series, Arad was basically the mastermind behind toy action figure garbage like The Avengers and Spider-man Unlimited.

These guys doing this show are responsible for QUALITY work. And they are serious about doing a good job with this series. I have no doubt we aren't getting an X-men: Unlimited, Avengers or some garbage like that.

If they can do a good show without having to use the classic Logan/Cyclops/Jean love triangle and a lot of the conventional X-men pairings and storylines, with a very unconventional scenario, I have every confidence they can do a good job with this show. If they can do a good job with the animated movies, they can do a good job with this show.

But, to the casual audience, Cyclops is just the guy with the eye-beam. So to the target audience, it won't matter.

I think you need to let go of your prejudices man.

You can't slap Scott in a trench-coat and make him Gambit. Gambit is Gambit. The moral of the movies was that Wolverine was the supreme X-Man and Cyclops was a coddled, ineffective leader. W&TXM seems to be leaning in that direction too, which is why there is some cause for criticism. X-MEN EVOLUTION was able to keep Scott as the leader of the kids while still making him a dynamic and interesting character, hardly wooden or infallible. It actually helped me like the character more than I had previously.

Gambit is Gambit and he's in this series. You keep bringing up the movies, this is not the movies. There is no cause for criticism. Because this a totally opposite story arc. Cyclops gets back in the fold. And when Wolverine pisses him off at first, HE KICKS HIS ASS WITH ONE SHOT! That would never have happened in the movies.

There's no proof that Scott still can't be a dynamic interesting character here.

I have faith Logan gets over this hump by Season 1. He's Wolverine. No one questions him. Aside for Frost, because she's a ****. It's like arguing with The Fonz.

I bet you Frost is going to try and seduce Cyclops on the rebound . Because she is a ****.

Which trailer, pray tell, have we seen more than Colossus punching something for about a half second? We've seen more of Iceman than we have of Colossus, and he wasn't in a group picture. I'd argue in terms of teasers, we've seen as much Squidboy as we have Colossus.

The half second of Colossus is still more than what we've seen of Squidboy.

Yeah. Plus, to play Devil's Advocate, Storm does respect Wolverine. During the brief time Logan led the X-Men in the comics, it was basically because Storm herself asked him to. Her being on his squad makes sense.

In X-men: The End Storm and Wolverine are also together as a couple, so that should tell you something else . I've always believed that Storm has a deep connection and love with Logan that always stays buried. I bet you she married T'Challa so she isn't close to him as much .

 

[The Weather God]

Yeah. Plus, to play Devil's Advocate, Storm does respect Wolverine. During the brief time Logan led the X-Men in the comics, it was basically because Storm herself asked him to. Her being on his squad makes sense.

I agree

In X-men: The End Storm and Wolverine are also together as a couple, so that should tell you something else . I've always believed that Storm has a deep connection and love with Logan that always stays buried. I bet you she married T'Challa so she isn't close to him as much .

LOL even after storm married bp they still showed some love traces, not that I'm a ROLO fan but I still noticed the chemistry there, it's undeniable.

 

[TheVileOne]

Regular friends even close friends do not constantly kiss each other open mouth with tongue.

 

[Dread]

It does explain why he and Janet never re-married.

Indeed. They had moved on. It wasn't being mentioned every 5 panels. Now it is.

It's not that, but Cyclops has a total *****e streak in him. Even the writers that supposedly love Cyclops don't mind making him look like a *****e. Cyclops was basically one of the most important characters when Morrison revised the entire X-line of books.

Morrison apparently didn't get the message that there is a difference between "*****e" and "Superdickery". I can buy Cyclops and Jean splitting up, and I can even buy Scott cheating on her (to some degree). But making out with his mistress on the GRAVE of the MURDERED WIFE is Superdickery. Now Scott is proudly ordering teenagers to kill people, and to feel no remorse while doing so.

Being a *****e isn't the same as being a whiner and a quitter, I would note. Being a *****e would be Scott refusing to surrender his role as Leader even when faced point blank with a better alternative.

Go to the movie forums to cry about Logan shafting everybody. These aren't the X-movies. This is a new show. We got two shows where Wolverine generally took a backseat most of the time, where he wasn't the main focus, where Cyclops was basically the leader or groomed as the leader and top dog. This is something different. Just like X-men Evolution was different than X-men, and people were so seething about the X-men being teens in high school again, before ultimately accepting it later on.

I know better than to go to most movie forums. They usually are cesspools of fighting.

TWO shows? Are you...are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that Wolverine took a "back seat" in the 90's show? Have you actually watched that show this decade? Wolverine received more solo episodes, more attention and more appearances than any other character in that show. The only characters that almost showed up more were Rogue, Beast, and Xavier himself. That show tried to be balanced until about Season 3 but by then, Wolverine was clearly the star attraction and would appear in virtually every episode, even when it didn't make sense for him to do so. I know if I wanted to have an X-Man follow Magneto around Europe, for instance, it wouldn't be an X-Man whose metal skeleton made him almost helpless before him. His character arcs, from the stuff in Season 1 to the "fear" stuff during the Proteus episodes, always received the most attention and focus. The 90's show was a great show, one of Marvel's first great shows, and it had tons of characters. But if you seriously think Wolverine of all members took a "back seat" in that show, you're memory is fuzzy. If anything, Gambit showed up a lot less than I recalled as a kid. Aside for Jubilee, he was always the X-Man who was most likely to miss a mission after a while.

As for X-MEN EVOLUTION, yeah, Logan took a back seat to the teenagers. He also was a bit of a jobber in that series; serving the Piccolo role of being trashed in a fight to make a villain or threat seem tougher, from Blob to the Sentinel (he also was the character, due to his healing factor and metal skeleton, who could survive ridiculous beatings). Still, he got the most focus out of any adult character there, and by Season 3 & 4 his focus improved as the movie sequel was underway. But, yeah, THAT series he got a back-seat. That was part of what made Evolution so quirky; it treated the X-Men as a franchise that didn't always rely on Wolverine putting it on his shoulderpads. I knew it wouldn't last forever.

Then you shouldn't be so close-minded. You keep talking about how you don't like this or that about the show. How it doesn't endear even though you don't think it will turn out this way or that way. I am willing to bet you after 13 episodes you will be one of the show's biggest supporters. I will sig bet you.

What is with you and "sig bet" 's?

If the show is good, yeah, I'll support it (presuming I can actually watch it). I just call things as I see them. The most boring thing someone can say on a message board is, "I'll wait and see". Take a stand, spark some debate!

I am being critical because, again, I am seeing patterns here. Things work in cycles. You'll notice the movies made a mark on SS-M to some degree, yes? So pretending the movies won't have an influence on W&TXM for better or worse is naive.

Tommy as White Ranger and Red Ranger = Better leader than Jason as Red Ranger.

I didn't watch POWER RANGERS that long.

Dread, all I can really say is some people totally hated the changes that were made to the X-men in the 70's. Some people also couldn't stand this new character called Wolverine and thought he was ridiculous until he suddenly popped his claws out of his hand for the first time. Some people couldn't stand it when Jean came back from the dead after the Phoenix saga. And for the longest time people complained that Jean was never that good of a character and really didn't have anything going for her besides the Phoenix. Now people hate that Jean is gone and Emma Frost is the new woman in Scott's life and call her a Jean clone and they miss Jean. Etc. Etc.

You're making the "no change came without *****ing" argument? Why not tell me that the sky is blue, too?

I, for one, have never missed Jean. She was boring. Emma Frost is many things, but boring isn't one of them.

You can't ignore the circumstances around Spider-man Unlimited. John Semper was a guy who busted his ass to make Spider-man: TAS the excellent, thought out show that it was with great story arcs and continuity. A lot of the problems and drawbacks of that show were due to meddling from Avi Arad. After the show finished, and the Marvel lawsuit that killed Silver Surfer's second season as well as the excellent looking Captain America series, Arad was basically the mastermind behind toy action figure garbage like The Avengers and Spider-man Unlimited.

I know. But it was a case of, "Let's do something different with Spider-Man", and it TANKED. You also ignored the Wonder Woman spy era of the 70's. Some of the crappiest stories ever told about characters were from writers trying to do something "dramatically different".

These guys doing this show are responsible for QUALITY work. And they are serious about doing a good job with this series. I have no doubt we aren't getting an X-men: Unlimited, Avengers or some garbage like that.

EVOLUTION had some hiccups. I liked it but it had hiccups. Since this is mostly the same team it will be interesting if they've learned anything from some of those issues, besides the "more Logan" memo.

Every writer, producer, etc. on a show is "serious" about doing a good job. I'm sure the writers on AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND thought they were doing bang-up work. We won't be able to tell until the episodes start hitting the airwaves (or Internet).

If they can do a good show without having to use the classic Logan/Cyclops/Jean love triangle and a lot of the conventional X-men pairings and storylines, with a very unconventional scenario, I have every confidence they can do a good job with this show. If they can do a good job with the animated movies, they can do a good job with this show.

Which animated movies did this team do? The ULTIMATE AVENGERS films? They were enjoyable, but not the rapture.

Yeah, I'll give you they had a few good pairings on X-MEN EVOLUTION. Frankly, I kind of wished they didn't have to go with canon for Scott & Jean because Scott always seemed to have more chemistry with Rogue on that show. The two of them had some good episodes together, even in Season 1. I remember rolling my eyes when naturally they had to attach him to Jean (who, at best, came off as Rachel from FRIENDS on that show, only seeing Scott as more than a friend when or if another girl thought so. She wouldn't even acknowledge Scott was "cute" until Kitty brought it up in Episode 3).

But coupling isn't the same as the Logan/Scott dynamic they are bringing together here. It just means that the Frost/Scott thing will likely be enjoyable.

"I hate you!"

"I hate you more!"

"Take me, Visor-Man!"

I think you need to let go of your prejudices man.

It isn't prejudices. It is being wary of trends.

Gambit is Gambit and he's in this series. You keep bringing up the movies, this is not the movies. There is no cause for criticism. Because this a totally opposite story arc. Cyclops gets back in the fold. And when Wolverine pisses him off at first, HE KICKS HIS ASS WITH ONE SHOT! That would never have happened in the movies.

Considering how popular he still is, I am actually surprised Gambit only shows up for 2 episodes. I mean, who do they think he is; Colossus?

You're making a lot out of an optic blast scene, man. I'm fairly certain we'll get a handshake and a "You were right" esque scene between Scott and Logan, with Scott even endorsing his leadership, and I am going to roll my eyes. I mean, it's Logan's show. It can't go any way but that in the end. Still, stuff could be interesting before then.

There's no proof that Scott still can't be a dynamic interesting character here.

True, but he will have to do so under a situation that in no way plays to his strengths. This usually makes me hesitant to endorse it until I see results. I am a results kind of guy.

I bet you Frost is going to try and seduce Cyclops on the rebound . Because she is a ****.

Oh, of course. In a way I am actually looking forward to it. Emma Frost has played a larger role in the X-Men mythos for the past 5+ years now, and this cartoon at least will give fans a more contemporary adaptation of the mythos.

The half second of Colossus is still more than what we've seen of Squidboy.

Squidboy has already been cast with an actor who has a picture on his IMDB profile (Dominic Janes). Colossus hasn't.

In X-men: The End Storm and Wolverine are also together as a couple, so that should tell you something else . I've always believed that Storm has a deep connection and love with Logan that always stays buried. I bet you she married T'Challa so she isn't close to him as much .

Yeah, Storm & Logan have had chemistry for a long time. Claremont even brought it back up during some of his years back on X-Men.

LOL even after storm married bp they still showed some love traces, not that I'm a ROLO fan but I still noticed the chemistry there, it's undeniable.

It would have made more sense than the shoehorned, retconned way T'Challa and Storm were hitched and said to be immortal lovers.

 

[Dread]

((double post))

 

[chamber-music]

But it was something that was dealt with, extenstively, for decades, and both he and Janet recovered from it, and moved on. Then a "someone" showed up in 2004, pretended that it had never been discussed, and now nothing else defines this character.

Agreed If I remember rightly he hit janet once after he had a mental breakdown. They resolved it mostly. I think Ultimates is what made everyone think of Pym as the wife beating guy. Ultimates made everyone look like a jackass but Pym especially so.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't see it as retcon. It was just too painful for Storm to always be around Logan and not jump him and make him her love slave of the weather goddess. So she married a safe, stable choice to try and get away from Logan.

 

[Dread]

I don't see it as retcon. It was just too painful for Storm to always be around Logan and not jump him and make him her love slave of the weather goddess. So she married a safe, stable choice to try and get away from Logan.

By retcon I meant how Marvel's editorial board decided to blow up MTU #100 to create a romance between T'Challa and Ororo that before then simply never existed, and then claim it always had. Then, of course, Joe Q would claim that the Parker marriage was a sham hack move, and most of us just rolled our eyes.

I'm not sure Ororo would want to make Logan her "love slave". I think they respect each other two much. Despite the power differences (she can control the weather, he can stab stuff really well), she views him as an equal. Logan respected her leadership ability, even sans power, long before he ever saw Scott as more than a preppie tightwad.

The 90's episodes only touched on this in the 2-part "One Man's Worth" where an alternate reality Storm & Logan were married, and every 5 minutes Ororo would coax Logan out of a rage and Logan would reply, "I'm sorry, darlin'. I luv ya!" Hopefully if such a romance happens in W&TXM, the writers handle it better.

Frankly, no animated version of Storm has avoided being annoying, although Evolution's version was less so, if only because she spoke like a real person, although "AFRICAN STORM" was probably Evolution's worst episode. If W&TXM can handle her better, cool.