Comic book films vs. The Western

[Spider-Aziz]

2. Keep them as low budget as possible.
This part isn't as easy as it looks, but the recent success of low budget CBM films proves the lower the budget, the chances are the better job they'll do on the script. When they can go hog wild with special effects, things begin to get dicey. I'm not saying never go big, but not every film needs $200M to tell a story.

How low budget do you propose? $130 million tops as production budget?

 

[DACrowe]

I think Marvel will be okay. It is a franchise, not a genre. There is precedent for particular franchises remaining popular for decades (ex. James Bond, Star Wars, Godzilla). They go up and down in popularity, but manage to endure. Also, much like Bond, the studio that makes them exists basically solely to make those movies.

Non-MCU superhero films could have much bigger problems once the genre declines in popularity.

Very much agreed. But one of the Westerns strength was how diverse it could be. Marvel makes what is quite literally half of all superhero movies right now. And therefore half of them all look and feel the same. Either Marvel will change up the formula as people eventually wary on it, or they'll become more like EON one day, which, yes, only makes one Bond movie every 2-4 years, so it is an event, instead of omnipresent.

That is another thing that I think actually does help the Western/superhero comparison. Seventy years ago, Hollywood studios produced more films a year than they do now, and none were mega blockbusters. While there are far fewer superheroes made in any given year than there were ever Westerns during the genre's peak, or even early waning days, the cultural footprint left by superhero movies is enormous as due to marketing for months and sometimes years in advance. A single superhero movie sucks up far more oxygen now--as does most event films like Star Wars, Transformers, Fantastic Beasts--than any single film back in the day.

So even though there are fewer superhero movies, I think the comparison is also valid because of that.

 

[DACrowe]

No CBM comes close to The Searchers, though.

The Dark Knight is the best CBM ever, but I'd still put it below a few Westerns like The Searchers, Shane, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, Once Upon a Time in the West, High Noon, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and Unforgiven. Also Blazing Saddles, if you count it as a Western.

That is kind of circling the point I am making. Just to add a few to those, there is also Stagecoach, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Red River, For a Few Dollars More, True Grit (either of them), McCabe and Mrs. Miller, The Wild Bunch, even arguable modern classics in the genre like Dances with Wolves, Tombstone, Maverick, The Assassination of Jesse James, The Hateful Eight.

I am not saying that they're all better than The Dark Knight. In fact, I would put TDK over quite a few of them. As well as Logan. My point though is that here is a diverse collection of films that are all in the overarching same "genre" but are wildly different and incredibly memorable, and singular.

Seventeen years into this superhero bubble, and I feel like only Christopher Nolan and now James Mangold is trying to make films that stand that kind of test of time, or have this kind of ambition and individuality. Most superhero movies are content to blur together in style, tone, and impact.

 

[The Batman]

Seventeen years into this superhero bubble, and I feel like only Christopher Nolan and now James Mangold is trying to make films that stand that kind of test of time, or have this kind of ambition and individuality. Most superhero movies are content to blur together in style, tone, and impact.

This.

Which is why I feel that Superman: The Movie and Batman 89' are still more enduring than most modern CBM's.

 

[2kt09]

Point made. Even the acknowledgement of the few titles says just how less of a genre it is.

It's most definitely a trend, but we still haven't gotten to this glut
considering other genres make just as big or even more massive gains within the industry.

 

[The Joker]

This.

Which is why I feel that Superman: The Movie and Batman 89' are still more enduring than most modern CBM's.

And Spider-Man 2.

 

[DACrowe]

This.

Which is why I feel that Superman: The Movie and Batman 89' are still more enduring than most modern CBM's.

And Spider-Man 2.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I don't know if I can hold those movies higher than other CBM's since while they are great, they aren't the ones that for me embraces what's special about the superhero comics the most. While the movies mentioned stand out in the superhero genre, I think they stand out less when compared to other movies.

It's the movies like The Avengers that brought what the superhero genre itself does best imo. That's where they can compete with any other genre. The grittier and more dramatic superhero movies are also awesome, I am a fan of it all, but I'd say that other genres have made better movies in that department in film history.

Then there's of course the issue of some thinking drama is better than comedy, horror better than musicals, etc. Personal taste of which kind of movies that person prefers. But I still think that the superhero genre does the upbeat action best.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

And Spider-Man 2.

I'm not a huge fan of the Spider-Man movies but I did enjoy SM2. I thought Molina was fantastic