Common Sense Wins One Battle!!

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Florida Prison Halts Kosher Meals for Jewish Inmates, Halal Meals for Muslins.


MIAMI —
Jewish inmates who follow strict religious diets at Florida prisons are no longer provided meals in line with their beliefs. Muslims must now eat vegan food to satisfy their religious requirements.
The Corrections Department has ended the Jewish Dietary Accommodation Program, which provided kosher meals to not only Jews, but to Muslims as well, because the state prison system does not offer halal food. Cost — and fairness — were cited as factors.
"We have 100 faiths represented by DOC inmates, so it would be impossible to satisfy everyone's preferences and unfair to do it for one group and not another," agency spokeswoman Gretl Plessinger said. "We just have to look at what our mission is and what's best for our overall department and the overall population of inmates in our system instead of a smaller group."
The department has suspended use of pork products in an attempt to appease religious adherents and will continue to serve vegetarian and vegan meals. It said many Jews and Muslims could choose the vegan option, which is free of any animal products, to adhere to their faiths.
But for the strict followers of kosher and halal diets, it is far from ideal.
Rabbi Jack Romberg of Temple Israel in Tallahassee, who was a member of a group that reviewed religious dietary accommodations in prisons, noted that unless the vegan food is prepared separately from other meals, it would not satisfy kosher law. Ahmed Bedier of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Tampa said vegan food would meet the religious requirements of those who follow a halal diet, but would cause undue hardship.
"Either you have a choice of violating your own religion beliefs or you're coerced to only eat vegan," Bedier said. "That's probably not a reasonable accommodation."
Rules on halal and kosher foods are intricate, but at their core are similar in that both exclude pork and mandate a specific way in which an animal is to be killed. Kosher laws also dictate the way food is cooked.
The Corrections Department halted new enrollment in the state's Jewish Dietary Accommodation Program in April — when it had 259 inmates enrolled and another 95 seeking inclusion — and commissioned a review. Last year, the department opened the kosher meal program to non-Jews and officials have feared it would burgeon, along with the bill.
The study group that looked at the issue recommended more stringent screening of applicants to ensure they were not claiming religious beliefs simply to get different food. But the department said it wasn't feasible.
"It becomes impossible to really assess a person's faith and determine who should and who should not participate," Plessinger said. "By telling a person you're not faithful enough or not religious in your faith that's not really fair either."
The study group also recommended possible use of prepackaged kosher meals, a move members said could ease some logistical hurdles and better suit inmates' faiths.
"I wouldn't know why they wouldn't accept the recommendation," Romberg said.
The department said costs for the program ran the risk of running too high and could take away money from educational and vocational programming in prisons. There are about 93,000 inmates in state prisons, with an estimated 3.7 percent of them Muslim and 2.2 percent Jewish.
The state said it costs about $2.66 (euro1.96) daily to serve inmates three regular meals. Kosher meals cost the same, but with costs for disposable containers and transportation, since the food was not prepared in each facility, the price came to about $4.71 (euro3.47) daily. Prepackaged kosher meals would have cost roughly $12 (euro8.84) to $15 (euro11.05) daily per prisoner, according to the department, but also may have come with additional costs for transport and supplementation with additional food items.
A survey included in the study group's recommendations found that nationally, among 34 states that responded, 26 had kosher menus available. Out of 33 state responses, just five offered halal food.
Florida state regulations mandate three meals — at least two of them hot — be served to inmates each day, and that "inmates who wish to observe religious dietary laws receive a diet sufficient to sustain them in good health without violating those dietary laws."
The state was already the target of a still-unresolved lawsuit filed last year by the Florida Justice Institute on behalf of Muslim inmates denied meals in accordance with their diets. It was unclear if the latest move, which was effective last week, could bring further litigation.
Harry Dammer, a criminal justice professor at the University of Scranton who studies religion in prisons, said he did expect more lawsuits.
"The trend is to come up with this one alternative meal that will sort of encompass all of these parties," he said, "and it's not going to be easy to do."
The situation has always been imperfect. Even with in-house kosher programs in prisons, the kitchens cannot be considered kosher, and therefore the food would be unacceptable to strict Jews. And while some Muslims see kosher food as an acceptable alternative to halal, many others do not.



These guys are in PRISON!!!! They gave up the privileges of the outside world the minute they murdered, stole or cheated. Big ups for this prison system!
icon14.gif
Our tax dollars at work.
 
Interesting that the complaint is that the prisoners will be forced to violate their religious beliefs by having to eat things that are forbidden to them by their religious practices. Didn't they kind of violate their religious beliefs by winding up in prison in the first place? :huh:

I can understand the "one-size-fits-all" solution for absolutely everyone from a cost perspective alone let alone just being fair with all prisoners getting the same deal, though I also get the flip side where people of certain faiths are going to have to go against their beliefs just to be able to eat. I'm sure the lawsuits over this will go on for awhile. A lot of grey area in there to be sorted through on legal and ethical fronts. In the meantime, who wants a pork sandwich? 'Cuz that's all there is to eat, maggots! *clangs bars with nightstick* :cmad:

jag
 
I think it's unfair to just say "oh there in prison there less than human beings" also it's always appalling the fact that people like to treat other religious practices like they mean nothing. The point of prison is to REFORM, something people forget because unless you didn't figure it out they eventually get out unless it's for murder. And pretty much treating them like scum, doesn't really do that. However, sometimes sadly somethings can not be accomodated for, so if it was between Kosher food and education, I'd go with the latter. But I don't see this as a victory or common sense, just very sad :(
 
These guys are in PRISON!!!! They gave up the privileges of the outside world the minute they murdered, stole or cheated. Big ups for this prison system!
icon14.gif
Our tax dollars at work.
[/COLOR]

Yeah, something tells me that the rules of their religion are also against whatever got them thrown in jail to begin with.
 
Yeah, something tells me that the rules of their religion are also against whatever got them thrown in jail to begin with.

Hell yes, hey you Jew, your jailed for being a Jew you Jew!! What do Jews do that are bad?
 
May I also point out... That it's really easy to judge people in prison when you've never had the need nor the opportunity to do something to wind up in jail. I'm not saying they deserve to be treated like kings, but having simple religious procedures accounted for is not going make there stay a lot better, I'm sure the food will be just as crappy.
 
I think it's unfair to just say "oh there in prison there less than human beings" also it's always appalling the fact that people like to treat other religious practices like they mean nothing. The point of prison is to REFORM, something people forget because unless you didn't figure it out they eventually get out unless it's for murder. And pretty much treating them like scum, doesn't really do that. However, sometimes sadly somethings can not be accomodated for, so if it was between Kosher food and education, I'd go with the latter. But I don't see this as a victory or common sense, just very sad :(

See, I view the purpose of prison to be to PUNISH. It should be someplace no one ever wants to go to because you will be made to work your ass off and eat food that doesn't taste all that great but will give you nourishment. It shouldn't be a glorified country club or dorm where prisoners get to work out all day, play X-Box, watch cable, read in the law library, play basketball and choose from an extensive gourmet menu that includes kosher and halal selections. They are being PUNISHED for doing bad things. Make the punishment strong enough and people will reform THEMSELVES. I guarantee it. Sure, offer them learning opportunities and a chance to get degrees, etc. But when they're not in class, make them work their asses off doing hard labor. I had to work MY way through college, they should have to, too. :)

jag
 
See, I view the purpose of prison to be to PUNISH. It should be someplace no one ever wants to go to because you will be made to work your ass off and eat food that doesn't taste all that great but will give you nourishment. It shouldn't be a glorified country club or dorm where prisoners get to work out all day, play X-Box, watch cable, read in the law library, play basketball and choose from an extensive gourmet menu that includes kosher and halal selections. They are being PUNISHED for doing bad things. Make the punishment strong enough and people will reform THEMSELVES. I guarantee it. Sure, offer them learning opportunities and a chance to get degrees, etc. But when they're not in class, make them work their asses off doing hard labor. I had to work MY way through college, they should have to, too. :)

jag

I think your missing what I'm saying though, I agree with that too... However serving them equally crappy food that goes along with there religion isn't going to change that much, for in the end, even prisoners are human beings. And hell my views are everyone should ****ing work, and that most of the time it's people's own damn faults for having a ****ty lot in life, but... none the less... Well my point's been made...
 
Jag had it right, where were their concerns for their religious beliefs when they committed the crime that got them thrown in jail?

If it comes to raising my taxes to pay for creating individual meals based on these f***tards religious beliefs, I'll stick with letting them suffer the consequences of their actions when they violated whatever law got them thrown in jail in the first place.

I say screw 'em; they'll eat and drink what's provided to them, or they can starve themselves to death...either way, it'd be okay with me. :mad:
 
Oy...I get the idea that they need to be punished, however serving them ****ty food that adheres to there religious beliefs is HARDLY special treatment. Really many of you need to get off your high horses, I mean people are goign construe this as saying we should go soft on them, and in no way am I saying that, prison should be ****ing hard as heck, and you can do that while still treating them like human beings. But like I said, if I grew up poor as ****, with ****ty ass parents, perhaps I would be a criminal too, I really can't judge with everything I've been blessed with...
 
Jag had it right, where were their concerns for their religious beliefs when they committed the crime that got them thrown in jail?

If it comes to raising my taxes to pay for creating individual meals based on these f***tards religious beliefs, I'll stick with letting them suffer the consequences of their actions when they violated whatever law got them thrown in jail in the first place.

I say screw 'em; they'll eat and drink what's provided to them, or they can starve themselves to death...either way, it'd be okay with me. :mad:

Well yes it should be equal rights accross the board. Basic human needs should be met and that is that. Different religons but one race.
 
Movies205 is soft on crime!!!! :cmad:

jag
 
Oy...I get the idea that they need to be punished, however serving them ****ty food that adheres to there religious beliefs is HARDLY special treatment. Really many of you need to get off your high horses, I mean people are goign construe this as saying we should go soft on them, and in no way am I saying that, prison should be ****ing hard as heck, and you can do that while still treating them like human beings. But like I said, if I grew up poor as ****, with ****ty ass parents, perhaps I would be a criminal too, I really can't judge with everything I've been blessed with...

It's not as simple as serving three different types of food...as the guy said in the article, there are over 100 different religions represented in that prison alone...who's going to pay for it? At what point do you draw the line and stop catering to people that obviously showed no concern for others rights to begin with?
 
I think it's unfair to just say "oh there in prison there less than human beings" also it's always appalling the fact that people like to treat other religious practices like they mean nothing. The point of prison is to REFORM, something people forget because unless you didn't figure it out they eventually get out unless it's for murder. And pretty much treating them like scum, doesn't really do that. However, sometimes sadly somethings can not be accomodated for, so if it was between Kosher food and education, I'd go with the latter. But I don't see this as a victory or common sense, just very sad :(

You might think it's unfair to say they're less that human for being in prision, but I think it just plain ****ing NAIVE to say they're in prison to reform.

How many prisoners end up back in prision after their release?
 
It's not as simple as serving three different types of food...as the guy said in the article, there are over 100 different religions represented in that prison alone...who's going to pay for it? At what point do you draw the line and stop catering to people that obviously showed no concern for others rights to begin with?

Did you read my first post, I said I'm not against this... I think what there doing is fine, there providing one alternative which doesn't stringently follow tehre religion but does teh job, prison shouldn't be expected to stringently follow a 100 different religion, however they do there part by offering an alternative, if they don't like it that there own ****ing problem. However offering no alternative I think is not quite good.
 
You might think it's unfair to say they're less that human for being in prision, but I think it just plain ****ing NAIVE to say they're in prison to reform.

How many prisoners end up back in prision after their release?

This is true, but if they weren't in there to be reformed they should stay there for life, if you think about it. I mean realistically speaking it's pretty hard to reform someone, but the idea is there not going want go back.
 
This is true, but if they weren't in there to be reformed they should stay there for life, if you think about it. I mean realistically speaking it's pretty hard to reform someone, but the idea is there not going want go back.

Exactly. So why make life easier for them? Make it as difficult as possible, so they won't WANT to return.
 
Exactly. So why make life easier for them? Make it as difficult as possible, so they won't WANT to return.

This is my point I agree with Jag and a lot of people here, just I think the vegan alternative is a good idea cuz it's ****ty, but basically respects there religion for hte most part. I'm just against this idea that criminals are lower than dirt, in the end there people to, most from hard knocks... It's those ****ing blue-collar criminals... Seriously those country-club ****ers, Seriously those guys should take it up the ass... Really, minimum security prisons should be like maximum security prisons because those guys truely suck. If life is good, and your committing a crime, I have no sympathy for you, you suck therefore you should get the maximum punishment.
 
Hell yes, hey you Jew, your jailed for being a Jew you Jew!! What do Jews do that are bad?

What are you trying to say here? I didn't say they're in jail because of their religion, I said their religion is probably against what got them thrown in jail to begin with. I doubt the jewish faith is cool with murder, so a jewish guy kills someone, but won't eat a meal if it isn't kosher because he's very religious and wants to follow his religions rules, well, what happened to that faith and following those religious rules when he was killed that other person? I don't think anyone should be arrested because of religion, race, nationality or anything like that, only if you break the law.
 
What are you trying to say here? I didn't say they're in jail because of their religion, I said their religion is probably against what got them thrown in jail to begin with. I doubt the jewish faith is cool with murder, so a jewish guy kills someone, but won't eat a meal if it isn't kosher because he's very religious and wants to follow his religions rules, well, what happened to that faith and following those religious rules when he was killed that other person? I don't think anyone should be arrested because of religion, race, nationality or anything like that, only if you break the law.

That was me being funny,

I agree
 
Random executions would deter crime and would relieve our jail overcrowding issue...allow me to elaborate.

Assign every jail, regardless of size, a number and throw the number into a giant bowl. Every 6 months have some lucky game show contestant draw a number and which ever jail is associated with that number, you remove the guards, seal the place up and gas every living thing in it.

You've now opened up space for new inmates as well as sent a scary message to other ne'er-do-wells out there. Doesn't matter what you're in for, you just picked the wrong time to get tossed into the drunk tank.

If there's no appreciable decline in criminal activity, simply increase the frequency to every quarter or even every month. Sooner or later, you'll see improvement.
 
My point with the scenario above is people won't be worried about what type of meal they're getting...they'll be worried when they see all the damn guards exiting the prison! :woot:
 
is this a minimum or maximum security prison?

my opinion is that they should all get the same meals. give them all gruel, for all i care. obviously they can't obey the rule of law, so who cares if they obey their religion's diet?

i'm curious why celldog is worked up enough about this that he has to bold his response and use a ton of exclamation points. are you completely unhinged, slim? you're the last person who should be *****ing about common sense.
 
Random executions would deter crime and would relieve our jail overcrowding issue...allow me to elaborate.

Assign every jail, regardless of size, a number and throw the number into a giant bowl. Every 6 months have some lucky game show contestant draw a number and which ever jail is associated with that number, you remove the guards, seal the place up and gas every living thing in it.

You've now opened up space for new inmates as well as sent a scary message to other ne'er-do-wells out there. Doesn't matter what you're in for, you just picked the wrong time to get tossed into the drunk tank.

If there's no appreciable decline in criminal activity, simply increase the frequency to every quarter or even every month. Sooner or later, you'll see improvement.

nah, just throw them on a "battle royale"-style island and make them kill themselves for sport. :yay:

but seriously, you're an idiot. :down
 

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