Contest of Marvels II Thread 1

[JewishHobbit]

Molly Hayes Vs. Stacy X

Tween Vs. Ho

Interesting fight. Molly is more than likely immune to Stacy's powers due to age, gender, and the nature of her own powers. She is too young for hormones to be pumping wildly through her system, so if not immune then at least a fair amount of protection. Also, Molly's female which, again if not immune, then a fair amount of protection. Molly's own powers have been suggested to be psionic in nature, which would mean they'd protect her mind while using them. also, Molly is strong enough to chuck a Godzilla-sized monster off, I don' doubt she could take care of Stacy-X. Plus, whatever you want to say about Molly, she's smart. she'd be smart enough to see through whatever pheremone illusions Stacy-X tried to throw up.

There's no reason why Molly would be immune to anything Stacy can do. Stacy's powers aren't based on sex, as she's talked about doing the same thing to females too. Molly is indeed young, but she's hit puberty, giving her her powers... therefor, the hormones are flowing. Molly hasn't been confirmed as having psionic natured powers, mostly that's only mentioned by fans on fansights, such as this one. We can't assume it for the fight. And not only that, but Stacy's powers aren't one having to do with telepathy, or mental powers, it's all physical and chemical. I'll give it to you that Molly's smarter than she plays, but there's no illusions to Stacy's powers either. It's real emotions and physical pleasure that she makes someone feel. Molly's every bit as vulnerable to Stacy's powers as anyone else.

as for prep-time: It was already shown that the Pride had a database on known meta-humans. since Stacy was living and working with the X-Men before the Pride's downfall it is probably that she's in there, also, Molly can ask Leapfrog (Since it is shown that they are friends) what to do about the pheremones, if she doesn't already know. Molly would probably march into the fight with rags up her nose rendering her immune to Stacy-X's Pheremones.

Stacy wasn't with the x-men long, so I doubt that she'd be in their files for any reason, so I doubt that would really fly. As for leapfrog, he could teach her perhaps, but he'd have to know of Stacy's powers, and I dont' think that he would. And rags up the nose would do squat, as the phermones aren't inhaled. It's based on physical touch.

Now Stacy-X may be a great hand to hand fighter, but we've seen Molly get smashed with an enchanted shovel and not even flinch or move. Let me repeat that: She was smashed with an enchanted shovel and didn't even bat an eye. You think Stacy-X's fist or feet are going to do much to her.

Fortunately, Stacy's focus is seldom based on physically fighting.

Anonymity is also on Molly's side. No one has any idea about the Runaways powers except for: the Runaways, Excelsior, and possibly the Avengers. Stacy-X doesn't have access to any of those databases. she won't know to make it a long battle. plus, Molly is deceptively cute and adorable. and I mean that literally, Deceptive. Molly is clever and cunning. she will have Stacy trying to go for a quick and painless knock out because Molly's all scared, her only power is glowing... BAM! Stacy-X is plastered to the wall.

The mentions of the Runaways has hit the news quite a bit. They've been mentioned a few times, such as in Civil War. Not only that, but they were seen in New York as well, so they've been seen. All it'd take is a visit to a computer to look them up and match the face to the bio. I'd think there's more of a chance that Stacy knows Molly than Molly knowing Stacy, but that's just my opinion, and something that niether of us can prove.

And it looks like we have the same idea... basically, Stacy or Molly leaps forward to attack, one counter attack then claims victory. Thing is... if Molly tries to punch Stacy, she has average speed like an average kid, whereas Stacy is quick and can dodge it. Even if Stacy leaps first, she's not dumb and wouldn't just leap at the kid. She'd be prepared to counter an attack, and a simple punch isn't hard to dodge, then just quick skin contact would claim the match... my way.

Winner - Stacy

 

[Zoken]

If you want to use Civil War information you have to use Post-M-Day Stcy X, which means NO powers.

That is somethign Else, in the Generation M limited series Stacy X gave an interview to a magazine, meaning her name and powers would be public knowledge, and thus accessable. Again, Molly asks Leapfrog, leapfrog searches for her, and BOOM we know about Stacy's powers.

Pheramones ARE in fact inhaled

In mammals and reptiles, pheromones may be detected by the vomeronasal organ, or Jacobson's organ, which lies between the nose and mouth, although some are detected by regular olfactory membranes

So Molly can protect herself with rags in the nose and a proper mouthguard.

Molly fakes being emotional, but she would know when her head is being screwed with.

Your best hope isn't people voting FOR Stacy, it's people voting AGAINST Molly.

and puberty has nothing to do with the possession of mutant powers. Jaime Madrox had his powers since birth. The powers TYPICALLY emerge during that time, but not necessarily.

 

[wiegeabo]

Adam Warlock vs. Aurora

Aurora has speed, blinding light, and some limited blasts of energy.

Against Adam Warlock who can break the sound barrier, has super-human durability, and wields cosmic energy blasts.

Not to diminish Aurora's effectiveness, but even with information on Adam, he'd still simply have her outclassed. And if Aurora can't get any info, she's going to be hurting even more.

Granted, this prison was designed to hold super-powered criminals. But even if Aurora could trick Adam to fall into a trap, he'd still be likely to get out with his sheer cosmic powers. And he'd be just as likely to trap her.

All-in-all, Adam should be able to take this fight in little time.


Adam Warlock wins

 

[Phaedrus45]

Possibly the most one-sided battle of Round 1, Wiegeabo has it so easy, he doesn't even have to worry about a rebuttal to his argument.

Poor Aurora, if memory serves me correctly, she had a terrible battle in Season 1, too. (Although, I could be wrong.)

 

[JewishHobbit]

If you want to use Civil War information you have to use Post-M-Day Stcy X, which means NO powers.

That is somethign Else, in the Generation M limited series Stacy X gave an interview to a magazine, meaning her name and powers would be public knowledge, and thus accessable. Again, Molly asks Leapfrog, leapfrog searches for her, and BOOM we know about Stacy's powers.

All depowered mutants are pre-M-day... meaning that Generation M and Civil War are no no's for her. The mention of Civil War on my behalf was just showing that the Runaways are known... that wouldn't change before or after Civil War. They became known prior to Civil War or M-Day. That's all that was being said.

Pheramones ARE in fact inhaled

So Molly can protect herself with rags in the nose and a proper mouthguard.

Can be inhaled, yes... but Stacy's shown in the past many times that all it takes is a touch. She touched Iceman and he was nearly out. There's been comments that simple touches makes a person tingly and intoxicated. If Pheramones are only inhaled, then the people at Marvel messed up, and that's something that works completely in my favor! Therefor, rags up Molly's nose won't help.

Molly fakes being emotional, but she would know when her head is being screwed with.

True, but it's a quick act, and if people like Iceman, Vanisher, Black Tom, Blob, and others can fall to it, then the same should hold true to Molly. She has no extra mental protection and no extra training, like Iceman specifically would have. She's vulnerable... not to mention, no matter how she acts... if Stacy made her (heaven forbid) orgasm... for the first time I assume, she ain't going to just pretend it didn't happen. She'd be pretty messed up, and that's all it'd take for Stacy to taker her out.

Your best hope isn't people voting FOR Stacy, it's people voting AGAINST Molly.

Either way works for me, but for the most part, the people at the Contest of Marvels don't vote favorates (and I'd expect it to stay that way). Trust me, I hate Stacy, but I'd vote for her over Molly because I can't see Molly winning.

and puberty has nothing to do with the possession of mutant powers. Jaime Madrox had his powers since birth. The powers TYPICALLY emerge during that time, but not necessarily.

True, same with Nightcrawler and such... the thing is, Molly is at that age, they even commented on it when her powers developed. If I'm remembering correctly her parents commented on it, and then Karolina and the others commented that it was time for her to hit puberty (and initially thought that's what she was talking about when she was talking about her powers). It's the age man, she's at puberty age... it's a natural fact.

 

[Zoken]

but isn't necessarily going through purberty. that fact remains.

Phaedrus we need another judgment call on powers when it comes to the pheremones (Note: Neither me nor Jewhob can spell worth crap). and if Molly is Post M-Day can she use information gained post M-Day.

like I said in another fight, time is litereally on her side as she can be taken later than Stacy-X meaning she'll have more information that Stacy-X did.

as for the people you mentioned being messed with, they are all emotional people to start with. Someone like Warren Worthignton III or Kurt Wagner who are not so emotional can resist as shown when she tried to seduce them.

also, to support my point on pheremones, In New X-Men: Mutant Acadamy era, Wallflower is also a pheremone user, and they make the point that pheremones are transmitted on air.

as for mental protection: she is the daughter of two powerful telepaths, I doubt they left their daughter without some measure of protection, I mean she was able to partially see through the Chameleon glamour of Geoffery Wilder by detecting that his accent was fake. also her appearance heavily suggests that her power is psionic in nature.

I know all of that is conjecture, but I'm allowed to use conjecture I believe.

 

[wiegeabo]

Thunderbird (eXiles) vs Radioactive Man

With regards to information, Lu isn't going to be able find any information on Thunderbird because he's from a different timeline. Similarly, John won't know anything about Lu, unless there was a counterpart in John's timeline. But the name Radioactive Man should tell John much more about his opponent than the name Thunderbird will tell Lu.

Lu's bio says he can turn energy into enough strengh to take on a fully charges Sub-Mariner. Namor is no souch, but he can't take on the Hulk. Yet Thunderbird has put the Hulk down before. Infact, John was able to punch a hole into Galactus. It may have been a weak Galactus, but even a weak Galactus can take out most characters in this tournament.

Strenghth-wise, Thunderbird has this fight.

Skill-wise, John also has a big advantage. John was War, a Horseman of Apocalypse. This man knows how to fight. He was even one of the top fighters on an Earth the Skrulls ruled where they made the superpowered beings fight.

Lu's ability to use radiation as weapon is his biggest advantage. But Thunderbird should have more than enough resistance to take care of his opponent.

Again, this should be an interesting fight. But I think John should be able to take this one.


Thunderbird wins

 

[hippy fascist]

Thunderbird (eXiles) vs Radioactive Man

With regards to information, Lu isn't going to be able find any information on Thunderbird because he's from a different timeline. Similarly, John won't know anything about Lu, unless there was a counterpart in John's timeline. But the name Radioactive Man should tell John much more about his opponent than the name Thunderbird will tell Lu.

And as I said before lu, unable to make use of his preptime will simply seek to make himself stronger. All he has to do is find a reasonable source of radiation and start soaking it up. If lu was able to simply sit and meditate for 24hrs while sitting on a pile of uranium (shouldn't have a problem getting any, this guy used to be one of the masters of evil, he's pretty well connected) he'd be nearly as strong as pre-crisis superman. More than enough to put a good few dents in Thunderbird's toughened hide.

Also wasn't thunderbird originally a 616 x-man meaning that Lu could get info on his counterpart but for my mind info would be a downside. Gathering info will mean lu will try to react in a set pattern when in reality the best thing he can do in this fight is simply give thunderbird a dose of each of his finest abilites. Prepare for everything, focus on nothing.

Lu's bio says he can turn energy into enough strengh to take on a fully charges Sub-Mariner. Namor is no souch, but he can't take on the Hulk. Yet Thunderbird has put the Hulk down before. Infact, John was able to punch a hole into Galactus. It may have been a weak Galactus, but even a weak Galactus can take out most characters in this tournament.

In that state Mjolnir could have smashed a whole through galactus with ease and yet Lu's Forcefield has previously been able to repel the hammer (and this wasn't a weakened thor!). Proudstar might be able to get a few good shot's in but the ammount of force they're gonna be reduced by is going to make this look like JJJ fighting spider-man. Lu's forcefield will absorb most of the impact and since he's been sitting on a pile of uranium for the previous 24 hours his increased strength and durability should be able to mop up any excess.

Strenghth-wise, Thunderbird has this fight.

Maybe but as i previously mentioned, even hyperion got ***** slapped by Lu recently, he's packing some serious strength and he didn't stand a chance.

Skill-wise, John also has a big advantage. John was War, a Horseman of Apocalypse. This man knows how to fight. He was even one of the top fighters on an Earth the Skrulls ruled where they made the superpowered beings fight.

WAS WAR...he is not war now, while he may retain some of his memories/abilities the majority will have been lost when "the spell was broken". Yes he's a great fighter but so is radioactive man. The only difference is that radioactive man can hold his own well in a scrap but has other abillities to back it up as well. This is the only thing john's good at.

Lu's ability to use radiation as weapon is his biggest advantage. But Thunderbird should have more than enough resistance to take care of his opponent.

Hardly, radiation poisoning is not like taking a physical hit, your cells break down from within. John is tough because his skin is denser than other people's. While it may take slightly longer for the radiation poisoning to kill him he's still going down. With the kind of dose Lu will hand him he'll be lucky if he's still standing within 2 minutes. The longer the fight goes on the weaker proudfoot's going to get. People hundreds of miles away from a nuclear explosion still die from the fallout. No matter how tough you are (wolverine excluded) Someone focuses the equivalent of a one-megaton A-bomb at your chest and you're going down.

Again, this should be an interesting fight. But I think John should be able to take this one.


Thunderbird wins

Thunderbird's a great character and up against ANY flat out brawler in this competition he'd stand a damn good chance of winning. However, lu has the ability to bypass his defences with radiation. He can make himself near invulnerable with his shields and while John's busy with bits an pieces falling off his body from radiation poisoning Lu can come in and start helping the process along.

Remember, thunderbird died in an ordinary explosion on a plane. Kick in the secret ingredient of heavy radiation and he doesn't stand a chance.

WINNER: RADIOACTIVE MAN!

 

[Zoken]

I have confirmation that I can use Post-M-Day information for Molly's prep-time.

now

In mammals and reptiles, pheromones may be detected by the vomeronasal organ, or Jacobson's organ, which lies between the nose and mouth, although some are detected by regular olfactory membranes.

which means pheromones must be inhaled, which means Molly could easily protect her self by obtaining an appropriate barrier easily found in the Hostel.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Yeah, just so it's clarified, a few of the mutants who lost their powers due to House Of M would be Pre-M-Day. But, if your mutant wasn't effected in an adverse way due to that event, you can figure it goes up to Civil War. (For example, events currently happening in "Young Avengers and Runaways," the Civil War tie-in, wouldn't be allowed for either of those groups.)

 

[POWdER-man]

ADAM WARLOCK vs AURORA Better BIO

Even with access to Alpha Flight's files it would still be debatable on whether she would have any information on Adam Warlock, but again Adam has been to Earth a few times and a powerful being like him would be hard-pressed not be noticed and talked about. And again, Alpha Flight has worked alongside the Avengers, X-Men and Dr. Strange to name a few. So I think it would be safe to say that she probably can acquire a slight amount of information but probably not much. But she would also be able to aquire information on the prison and use this in her strategy.

As for the match itself, we enter the match already in progress.

Aurora sits against a wall, panting and thinking about only mere seconds before. "Damn I thought I could get the jump on him but he is more resistant that I thought." Her metabolism heals her wounds at a considerable rate and she ponders on her next move. "He has got a bit of speed but I definitely got the edge (99.9% of light which she can move at and not just fly). I think I even hurt him by hitting him on the same spot, but he's tough and powerful. That blast nearly took my head off. Luckily I ducked it in time, and it only singed my shoulder. As she takes a gander on her right shoulder. "Just a few more seconds and I should be right as rain."

She gets up and restratigizes. She exits the room, and looks down the hallway, there is only one way to get his attaention as she generates a concussive blast. She blasts towards the direction she last saw Adam. This brings the side of the building crashing down. She accelerates out the exit door as everything comes slamming down with enough force to compare to an earthquake. She looks back and wonders if anyone could survive such destruction. Just at that moment, out from the rubble, Adam resurfaces from the building with a little wear and tear but angry as hell.

She creates a white bright flash that temporary blinds Adam. She takes this opportunity to come up quick on Adam and she touches Adam and speeds his molecules and tears them apart (ie). This causes Adam great pain and throws him flying backwards. He reacts and shoots a cosmic blast but this was easily anticipated by Aurora. She speeds up to him throws a few concussive and lighting blast to throw him off. Adam is too tough for her, even with everything she has thrown at him. He his still standing and fighting. She has to think quick on what to do, when she notices the armory/weapons room peaking from the ruins. "There's got to be something powerful enough to take this beast down. But I got to lead him over there some how." She decides to do so but she needed to get up close and dirty. She goes full speed and uses her body as a projectile. She hits Adam with all she has and pushes him towards the weapons room. Just as she gets up close to the spot she wants him in, she releases a massive concussive blast. This hits it's target right on, as they enter the center of the blast. She turns into light (ie) just as the missile heads explode and level the remaining structure of the building. The blast could be heard from miles away and could be felt even farther.

In the aftermath of the explosion and when the smoke clears Aurora returns to her normal form and searches the rubble. "Surely no one could survive that." She sees a figure laying on the ground and she can only hope it's Adam because she has nothing left. Luckily it is Adam, and she pulls out an unlikely victory. Now it's time to take a vacation.

WINNER AURORA

 

[wiegeabo]

Adam Warlock vs Aurora

The new bio actually makes Aurora an opponent. This could be a match after all.

But Adam's power still far outclasses Aurora's. It looks like she can fire off her own blasts. But Adam controls cosmic energy, and should be able to resist and overpower Aurora in this regard.

And Adam is incredibly durable. This is a man who can fight Thanos, so any damage Aurora inflicts by speeding up his molecules will hurt, but would probably not stop him before he stops her. And as for collapsing the building down on him, Adam could wrap himself in a protective cocoon. Then emerge better than he was before.

Or Adam could pull his patented appear from certain doom trick. The building collapses. Aurora takes a moment to look at what she's done, she turns around, and there stands Adam. He takes her out.

Speed is Aurora's only real advantage. But she can't really risk going too fast without injuring herself, especially if she remains confined within the prison. An Warlock can travel fast himself. Not as fast as Aurora, but it should help in the fight.

I still think Adam has more than enough to finish this fight and come away the victor.


Adam Warlock wins

 

[Trigger]

BRACKET 2,

Match 7:
Match 8:

Sunfire - Exiles (HELLSTORMER) bio



vs.

Grim Reaper (TRIGGER) bio

Grim Reaper vs Sunfire (Exiles)

This fight is pretty simple as far as fights go. To be quite frank, Sunfire is out-classed in this fight. Given the amount space in this area its really up to ol' Grimmy if he wants to fight her head-on, or steathily eliminate her from behind by casting an illusion and then ripping her to shreds with his scythe. Honestly, I simply can't think of how Sunfire could get in a lick edge-wise without Grim anticipating it. Sunfire doesn't stand a chance.

Winner= Grim Reaper :meow:

 

[Trigger]

Rebuttal :meow:

Ok this is pre-Crystal PLace so Sunfire wouldn't have the wealth of knowledge but still she's fought the undead before and people with more powers. His shapeshifting won't be a problem since she knows who she's facing. His teleporation could get him close enough to try and suck energy but she would just burn him up. Her main goal here would try to be keeping distance and nailintg him with fire, whihc always effects zombies. Overall this could pose difficulty but I think Sunfire could take it. O and he wouldn't be allowed to call his minions, as stated in the rules.

Unless she completely consumed the area in a nuclear rage, there's no way Sunfire would be able to bypass his illusions. Him having teleportation at his hands only makes this easier.

Wasting your energy on illusions and tiring out
+
being hit with a life-force draining scythe from behind
_____________________________________________

dead woman walking

 

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal :meow:



Unless she completely consumed the area in a nuclear rage, there's no way Sunfire would be able to bypass his illusions. Him having teleportation at his hands only makes this easier.

Sunfire's been known to have a short temper and, in the past, she has just nuked the entire place if she felt overpowered. She would give it time gauge him and in a last attempt she would probaly let loose. This is where he could win, teleported for that second he could have a very weak Sunfire graveling before him but if he missed that opportunity he'd be fried....extra crispy.

 

[JewishHobbit]

but isn't necessarily going through purberty. that fact remains.

I think it was hinted at quite enough in the first arc. It's not something that someone's just going to shout "I'm going through puberty!" I think it can be safely assumed.

Phaedrus we need another judgment call on powers when it comes to the pheremones (Note: Neither me nor Jewhob can spell worth crap). and if Molly is Post M-Day can she use information gained post M-Day.

like I said in another fight, time is litereally on her side as she can be taken later than Stacy-X meaning she'll have more information that Stacy-X did.

Yep, as Phaed said, Molly is post M-Day, as Stacey is Pre-M Day. It'd give Molly some extra time to have experience and such, but it still won't help much. The only possible was is the article on depowered mutants that came out (Generation M) in which Stacy was in it... but it was a New York run paper I believe, and Molly's a runaway in LA. Very little chance she's read it. So I think all this gives is a little experience.

as for the people you mentioned being messed with, they are all emotional people to start with. Someone like Warren Worthignton III or Kurt Wagner who are not so emotional can resist as shown when she tried to seduce them.

Iceman's just as good as Warren and Kurt, and all it took was a touch and he was nearly out. It's just that some have stronger wills to resist it apparently, but Molly's just a kid. She doesn't have a strong Faith like Nightcrawler to fall back on, or the life long scaring that Warren's endered. She's a niave girl that wouldn't know what hit her.

also, to support my point on pheremones, In New X-Men: Mutant Acadamy era, Wallflower is also a pheremone user, and they make the point that pheremones are transmitted on air.

This is true... however, it doesn't matter. The reason why is that we have our characters the way they've been written, and though it's not physically possible in real life (as far as I know) Stacy's pheremones do NOT need inhaled, comic examples prove it. This is a FACT case where it doesn't matter what can really happen, because this is how her character has functioned from day one. To say that suddenly people HAVE to inhale the pheremones is forcing her to be out of character, and that's not legit. It's like saying that Cyclops' eyes explode when he fires off a blast, because it isn't possible for a lazer to come out of a person's eyes and not fry them. It just happens, and that's that. Same with Stacy's pheremones.

as for mental protection: she is the daughter of two powerful telepaths, I doubt they left their daughter without some measure of protection, I mean she was able to partially see through the Chameleon glamour of Geoffery Wilder by detecting that his accent was fake. also her appearance heavily suggests that her power is psionic in nature.

It doesn't take a genious to tell a fake accent, just a good ear... and a good ear ain't going to help when your bodies suddenly doing things you've never known before. And as for the psionic nature of her power, nothing is proven. She has glowing eyes, yes, but it's not enough to state for certain that she'd have psionic resistance. Would Gambit have psionic resistance because he has glowing eyes? Or Cyclops? Or Havoc when he's about to power up, or Magneto, or Polaris, or anyone else that has glowing eyes? While some people may have linked her to psionic powers, not enough clues have been given beyond fandom guesses that her powers are psionic. That said, we have to stick with the facts when it comes to things like that, or it's just reaching. The facts... Molly's strong. Molly gets tired and weak real fast. Molly's smart, but still inexperienced, niave, and a kid. That's about all we have to go with. That's not enough to beat a veteran fighter and soemone whose highly trained in her powers (even before she became an X-Man) and an expert in mental manipulation. Stacey has this, and she's messed up enough to consider the match a 'life lesson' for the little girl.

Winner - Stacy

And note... after rereading it, I know it's going to be thrown back at me, so I'll go ahead and address it. It's a major stretch in assuming powers for an individual. It's not the same as my assuming Molly is going through puberty. Age is all estimation and doesn't change the character, whereas powers do. Some assumption is fine if it doesn't change the character... powers aren't.

 

[wiegeabo]

In that state Mjolnir could have smashed a whole through galactus with ease and yet Lu's Forcefield has previously been able to repel the hammer (and this wasn't a weakened thor!). Proudstar might be able to get a few good shot's in but the ammount of force they're gonna be reduced by is going to make this look like JJJ fighting spider-man. Lu's forcefield will absorb most of the impact and since he's been sitting on a pile of uranium for the previous 24 hours his increased strength and durability should be able to mop up any excess.

Maybe but as i previously mentioned, even hyperion got ***** slapped by Lu recently, he's packing some serious strength and he didn't stand a chance.

WAS WAR...he is not war now, while he may retain some of his memories/abilities the majority will have been lost when "the spell was broken". Yes he's a great fighter but so is radioactive man. The only difference is that radioactive man can hold his own well in a scrap but has other abillities to back it up as well. This is the only thing john's good at.

Hardly, radiation poisoning is not like taking a physical hit, your cells break down from within. John is tough because his skin is denser than other people's. While it may take slightly longer for the radiation poisoning to kill him he's still going down. With the kind of dose Lu will hand him he'll be lucky if he's still standing within 2 minutes. The longer the fight goes on the weaker proudfoot's going to get. People hundreds of miles away from a nuclear explosion still die from the fallout. No matter how tough you are (wolverine excluded) Someone focuses the equivalent of a one-megaton A-bomb at your chest and you're going down.

Thunderbird's a great character and up against ANY flat out brawler in this competition he'd stand a damn good chance of winning. However, lu has the ability to bypass his defences with radiation. He can make himself near invulnerable with his shields and while John's busy with bits an pieces falling off his body from radiation poisoning Lu can come in and start helping the process along.

Remember, thunderbird died in an ordinary explosion on a plane. Kick in the secret ingredient of heavy radiation and he doesn't stand a chance.

John may not have all the memories and skills he did when he was War, although he has more than enough to handle himself in a number of battles on the Skrull-Earth, but he still has all the strength and durability. When John 'hulks' out, he mows down everything. Even the Hulk. He even survived the massive discharge of Galactus' energy and explosion from the bomb when he forced Galactus to flee.

And Thunderbird wasn't killed in an airplane.  He was injured by taking out Galactus. And it still didn't kill him. He was in a coma, but he survived. And I doubt Radiation Man can put that much of a hurt on John when he's powered up before Thunderbird gets to him and makes him pay. Especially if, by attacking John, Lu's forcefield loses integrity.


Thunderbird wins

 

[Zoken]

I think it was hinted at quite enough in the first arc. It's not something that someone's just going to shout "I'm going through puberty!" I think it can be safely assumed.



Yep, as Phaed said, Molly is post M-Day, as Stacey is Pre-M Day. It'd give Molly some extra time to have experience and such, but it still won't help much. The only possible was is the article on depowered mutants that came out (Generation M) in which Stacy was in it... but it was a New York run paper I believe, and Molly's a runaway in LA. Very little chance she's read it. So I think all this gives is a little experience.

It can't be assumed that she has access to a new york written article despite the fact that she lives with a database on known super-humans designed by mad scientists and explorers from the future and is friends with a peice of the hardward linked up to all of that and has been shown to ask it questions, However it can be assumed she must be in puberty?



[qoute=JewishHobbit]Iceman's just as good as Warren and Kurt, and all it took was a touch and he was nearly out. It's just that some have stronger wills to resist it apparently, but Molly's just a kid. She doesn't have a strong Faith like Nightcrawler to fall back on, or the life long scaring that Warren's endered. She's a niave girl that wouldn't know what hit her.[/quote]She hasn't had life long scarring? She the youngest member of her team, she watched her parents and former leader DIE after they tried to kill her. Her best friend Gert just died after Molly herself was kidnapped by a person she knew to be dead, and she probably believed she was about to be sacrificed. Yeah, none of that was scarring whatso ever

This is true... however, it doesn't matter. The reason why is that we have our characters the way they've been written, and though it's not physically possible in real life (as far as I know) Stacy's pheremones do NOT need inhaled, comic examples prove it. This is a FACT case where it doesn't matter what can really happen, because this is how her character has functioned from day one. To say that suddenly people HAVE to inhale the pheremones is forcing her to be out of character, and that's not legit. It's like saying that Cyclops' eyes explode when he fires off a blast, because it isn't possible for a lazer to come out of a person's eyes and not fry them. It just happens, and that's that. Same with Stacy's pheremones.

can you prove that they weren't inhaled? That her touching them was just a way to be closer and give them a bigger dose of the pheromones? has she ever used these powers on someone who had their airways protected.

It doesn't take a genious to tell a fake accent, just a good ear... and a good ear ain't going to help when your bodies suddenly doing things you've never known before. And as for the psionic nature of her power, nothing is proven. She has glowing eyes, yes, but it's not enough to state for certain that she'd have psionic resistance. Would Gambit have psionic resistance because he has glowing eyes? Or Cyclops? Or Havoc when he's about to power up, or Magneto, or Polaris, or anyone else that has glowing eyes? While some people may have linked her to psionic powers, not enough clues have been given beyond fandom guesses that her powers are psionic. That said, we have to stick with the facts when it comes to things like that, or it's just reaching. The facts... Molly's strong. Molly gets tired and weak real fast. Molly's smart, but still inexperienced, niave, and a kid. That's about all we have to go with. That's not enough to beat a veteran fighter and soemone whose highly trained in her powers (even before she became an X-Man) and an expert in mental manipulation. Stacey has this, and she's messed up enough to consider the match a 'life lesson' for the little girl.

Regarding her eyes: Her parents were telepaths whose eyes glowed when they were using their powers. That is the entire reason for the suspicious of psionic powers when their eyes glow, not just glowing eyes, but the familial trait. Also remember that thanks to the Summers Family we know that Psionic powers are a dominant trait. Now as for her skill? She's an extremely bright girl, not at all naive. she acts that way to keep people off their guard. She may be young but she is also experienced. and Molly's powers only burn out quickly when she strains herself or over exerts herself. if she does simple feats, like say lifting heavy parts for the leap frog, she's shown to have plenty of energy. also her powers give her invulnerability. A guy shattered a shovel over her head and she didn't even flinch. whats more it was an enchanted shovel. she didn't blink or even go "ow". she tossed him ten blocks away.

Winner - Stacy

And note... after rereading it, I know it's going to be thrown back at me, so I'll go ahead and address it. It's a major stretch in assuming powers for an individual. It's not the same as my assuming Molly is going through puberty. Age is all estimation and doesn't change the character, whereas powers do. Some assumption is fine if it doesn't change the character... powers aren't.[/quote]

 

[hippy fascist]

John may not have all the memories and skills he did when he was War, although he has more than enough to handle himself in a number of battles on the Skrull-Earth, but he still has all the strength and durability. When John 'hulks' out, he mows down everything. Even the Hulk. He even survived the massive discharge of Galactus' energy and explosion from the bomb when he forced Galactus to flee.

And Thunderbird wasn't killed in an airplane.  He was injured by taking out Galactus. And it still didn't kill him. He was in a coma, but he survived. And I doubt Radiation Man can put that much of a hurt on John when he's powered up before Thunderbird gets to him and makes him pay. Especially if, by attacking John, Lu's forcefield loses integrity.


Thunderbird wins

Lu doesn't need to go anywhere near John. He can hit him from 200yrds away before John's even started to move. His invulnerability that stands him in such good stead normally will prove useless against this.

Also as I said before there is no upper limit that has ever been mentioned on radioactive man's ability to augment himself with radiation. He'll have soaked up all that concentrated radiation in his preptime and will still be augmenting himself with background radiation as the fight goes on. A single dose of radiation and john's strength will start to slip away by the second. Maybe if this was a fight in an open plain then john could win simply by charging his opponent but the labyrinthine complex the fight takes place in put's the ball in the court of a thinker like radioactive man (GENIUS LEVEL) rather than a brawler like john. If Lu brings his heavily augmented A-game, john won't even get within 10 yards of him.

Light's out for the brawler

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

 

[wiegeabo]

Lu doesn't need to go anywhere near John. He can hit him from 200yrds away before John's even started to move. His invulnerability that stands him in such good stead normally will prove useless against this.

Also as I said before there is no upper limit that has ever been mentioned on radioactive man's ability to augment himself with radiation. He'll have soaked up all that concentrated radiation in his preptime and will still be augmenting himself with background radiation as the fight goes on. A single dose of radiation and john's strength will start to slip away by the second. Maybe if this was a fight in an open plain then john could win simply by charging his opponent but the labyrinthine complex the fight takes place in put's the ball in the court of a thinker like radioactive man (GENIUS LEVEL) rather than a brawler like john. If Lu brings his heavily augmented A-game, john won't even get within 10 yards of him.

Light's out for the brawler

Remember that this was a prison designed to contain superhuman criminals. It has to be designed with energy/radiation users in mind. Which means that the walls and floors are likely radiation resistant (probably thick lead inside them) that would limit, if not block, Lu's radiation. So until John gets in line of sight of Lu, the effects of his radiation will probably be minimal at best. And by that point, Thunderbird's already charging ahead.

And John's nut just some dumb brute. He's an intelligent man with good fighting and hunting skills. Only when he 'hulks' out does he lose that. And by that time, Lu's going to be hurting badly.

Lu will fall before John does.

Thunderbird wins

 

[hippy fascist]

Remember that this was a prison designed to contain superhuman criminals. It has to be designed with energy/radiation users in mind. Which means that the walls and floors are likely radiation resistant (probably thick lead inside them) that would limit, if not block, Lu's radiation. So until John gets in line of sight of Lu, the effects of his radiation will probably be minimal at best. And by that point, Thunderbird's already charging ahead.

And John's nut just some dumb brute. He's an intelligent man with good fighting and hunting skills. Only when he 'hulks' out does he lose that. And by that time, Lu's going to be hurting badly.

Lu will fall before John does.

Thunderbird wins

Hardly, firstly how will lead lining in the walls stop a shot straight down a corridor. Secondly in unhulked form he'd be easy to take out or in hulked form he'd be dumb enough to trap

Finally how common do you think radiation users are, energy users yes but not radiation users.

WINNER:RADIOACTIVE MAN!

 

[wiegeabo]

Hardly, firstly how will lead lining in the walls stop a shot straight down a corridor. Secondly in unhulked form he'd be easy to take out or in hulked form he'd be dumb enough to trap

Finally how common do you think radiation users are, energy users yes but not radiation users.

Radiation is just a form of energy. So walls dense enough to block energy are dense enough to block radiation. And I already said "until John gets within line of sight." Which means, unless Radiation Man gets a straight shot down a corridor, John's protected by the very walls.

And John can power up pretty far without losing his mind or skills. It's just when he completely powers up does he become a raging monster. And even then he can sometimes reassert control (as when he put the bomb in Galactus). He'll only 'hulk out' if necessary and when he has a clear path at Lu (at which point he'll probably need to hulk out to resist the radiation).

Thunderbird wins

 

[hippy fascist]

Radiation is just a form of energy. So walls dense enough to block energy are dense enough to block radiation. And I already said "until John gets within line of sight." Which means, unless Radiation Man gets a straight shot down a corridor, John's protected by the very walls.

And John can power up pretty far without losing his mind or skills. It's just when he completely powers up does he become a raging monster. And even then he can sometimes reassert control (as when he put the bomb in Galactus). He'll only 'hulk out' if necessary and when he has a clear path at Lu (at which point he'll probably need to hulk out to resist the radiation).

Thunderbird wins

still not buying it

Firstly energy proof is down to heat/force/light radiation simply doesn't work in that way. It travels at random through the air not as some focused beam (unless lu's wielding it t: ) You can fire a laser at solid steel and it will take a while to burn through. Radiation on the other hand can pass through in seconds. This argument just doesn't hold up. Sorry

how angry was hulk when John Beat him, like Hulk Radiactive man has no upper limit on his strength/durability(other than how much radiation he can absorb (plenty see my earlier arguments!))

If John Hulks Out Radioactive Man can just ride it out inside his forcefield, then when john goes back to normal he simply zaps him with as much radiation as the fat man and little boy were packing. Only this time rather than spreading out over a large portion of Japan it would be focused on an area the size of a postage stamp on John's chest. Even the background radiation that radioactive man WOULD BE GIVING off (this can switched on and off at will) would weaken and eventually kill John. I just don't see how he could win

 

[wiegeabo]

still not buying it

Firstly energy proof is down to heat/force/light radiation simply doesn't work in that way. It travels at random through the air not as some focused beam (unless lu's wielding it t: ) You can fire a laser at solid steel and it will take a while to burn through. Radiation on the other hand can pass through in seconds. This argument just doesn't hold up. Sorry

how angry was hulk when John Beat him, like Hulk Radiactive man has no upper limit on his strength/durability(other than how much radiation he can absorb (plenty see my earlier arguments!))

How do you think nuclear reactors contain the radiation? Lead, and sometimes lot's of concrete. Enough of any material will block any type of energy (until it eventually absorbs enough to heat up, which isn't as easy as it sounds). And there's really only three types of radiation. Alpha-particles can be blocked by paper. They can't even get through human skin. Beta-particles can get about an inch into the skin (maybe not that much), so a wall should have no problem stopping them. What Lu's likely wielding is gamma-particle radiation, which is blocked by just a few inches of lead.

If John Hulks Out Radioactive Man can just ride it out inside his forcefield, then when john goes back to normal he simply zaps him with as much radiation as the fat man and little boy were packing. Only this time rather than spreading out over a large portion of Japan it would be focused on an area the size of a postage stamp on John's chest. Even the background radiation that radioactive man WOULD BE GIVING off (this can switched on and off at will) would weaken and eventually kill John. I just don't see how he could win

Which gives me another idea. John can literally rip out a large section of wall and use it as a shield, blocking Lu's attacks AND the background radiation he'd be giving off. He could then just use it as a battering ram, forcing Lu against a wall and smashing him with it until Lu's forcefield is drained. Or maybe sealing Lu into an area so his radiation can't escape.

 

[hippy fascist]

How do you think nuclear reactors contain the radiation? Lead, and sometimes lot's of concrete. Enough of any material will block any type of energy (until it eventually absorbs enough to heat up, which isn't as easy as it sounds). And there's really only three types of radiation. Alpha-particles can be blocked by paper. They can't even get through human skin. Beta-particles can get about an inch into the skin (maybe not that much), so a wall should have no problem stopping them. What Lu's likely wielding is gamma-particle radiation, which is blocked by just a few inches of lead.



Which gives me another idea. John can literally rip out a large section of wall and use it as a shield, blocking Lu's attacks AND the background radiation he'd be giving off. He could then just use it as a battering ram, forcing Lu against a wall and smashing him with it until Lu's forcefield is drained. Or maybe sealing Lu into an area so his radiation can't escape.

IT's still based on a falshood, it's not radiation proof. IT HAS NEVER BEEN STATED IT'S RADIATION PROOF! The other radiation focussed characters all got their powers from radiation (e.g. hulk) NOT by using it. Since no-one's gonna drop an A-bomb on the prison why would they. Lead is SOFT compare3d to most metals therefore there would be no point putting it in. It's a moot point...

Besides if he's running with the section of wall, at the very least, his feet would be exposed, no matter where radiation hits you once it's in your bloodstream you're ****ed. End of story

I'll accept that maybe one cell might have this (for radioactive man...) but it would be identical in appearance to any other cell. How would John find it unless he hassome special lead detecting powers that someone simply failed to mention...