Could Star Wars fatigue become a thing?

Discussion in 'Rogue One: A Star Wars Story' started by writer0327, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. 2kt09

    2kt09 Snyder Rent-Free

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    12,618
    Likes Received:
    1,066
    I can make the case for Finn being both new and refreshing.

    I was already groaning with Han and Kylo.
     
  2. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489
    I couldn't agree more, but here's the thing though. You are talking about a certain segment of fans, "die hard Star Wars fans". What percentage of Star Wars fans would be considered "die hard" or "hard core"? How many people that saw TFA or R1 have also read a Star Wars novel from the EU, or have even seen Clone Wars or Star Wars Rebels? You see what I'm saying, Disney invested $4B and they need to play to the "general audience", not to us die hards.

    Which is why I ask the question, how long can Disney stick with the "tried and true" OT characters....Han Solo, Boba Fett, maybe Obi-Wan, before everyone gets sick of it? Making a film every year gives us no time to even breathe and enjoy the last one, we're just being shuttled along to the next film at a breakneck pace.

    And if they decide to go completely away from the OT, what do they have left? I wonder often about this.....what is a Star Wars movie without:

    The Rebels
    The Empire
    Jedi Knights or
    The Skywalker Family?

    You know what that sounds like to the average movie goer? Standard Sci-Fi movie. And no one is going to care about that. That's why IMO Disney will continue to keep those OT Star Wars elements in all of their movies, otherwise it isn't the Star Wars people know and love.
     
  3. RocketsNutz

    RocketsNutz Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    1
    I think there very well could be. The threshold will be different from fans to general audience.

    I think in a year it'll be much more tangible, because IMHO a lot will hinge on Episode 8. If anything, I almost think there's more pressure on it than there was on JJ, because they've got to make sure it closes the gaps on some of the shortcomings Episode 7 had from a story perspective, otherwise I think it's going to lose a lot of us.

    At the same time, I think Rogue One was almost a little bit of a game changer... it proves you can go dark, not be dependent upon Jedi, and still deliver the type of experience a lot of us wanted.
     
  4. Filmfan93

    Filmfan93 The Man in Black

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,953
    Likes Received:
    410
    So much wrongness with this post...

    The OT had a story and it told it from beginning to end. The ST tells another story - it has a beginning, it will also have an end. The fact that TFA undoes some of the things from the OT doesn't mean that it has made the OT pointless.
     
  5. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489

    I'm not sure Rogue One proved anything at all (Rogue One didn't change the timeline of the films at all....it took place maybe weeks or even days before ANH)....

    Also I don't know if they can add just any old hero/villain combo to replace the Rebels and the Empire and be just fine. Sure, the prequels didn't have the Rebels or the Empire, but they pretty much gave us backstory to the rise of both the Rebellion and the Empire. TFA might have replaced "Rebels" with "Resistance" and Empire" with "First Order", but they still had Star Destroyers, TIE Fighters, X-Wings, etc., all staples of the previous trilogy. The First Order emblem even looks the same as the Empire.

    These items are integral to the SW universe. In fact if you were to Google "Star Wars" right now and click on "Images", almost everything you see is pretty much related to the OT. Now I'm not saying SW can't be just as successful without those things, but I am saying that right now it would be a risk to leave any of the familiar Star Wars trappings completely out and it's a big unknown whether or not any SW movie without those things will really resonate with a general audience.

    Again, what makes a SW movie a SW movie? Its the style of the films and the stuff that's in the universe. Once you depart from those things, you are making "sci-fi". It's like making a James Bond movie without Bond Girls, fancy gadgets, and sports cars.
     
  6. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489
    We're still talking about a film HEAVILY steeped in the OT nostalgia. The Rebels and Empire are obviously focal to this film. The history and creation of the Death Star....that's HUGE. Some of the ancillary characters we've seen over the years like Bail Organa and Mon Mothma, are given more prominence. As for Vader, don't discount how important he was to Rogue One's popularity and box office. True the film wasn't about him and he wasn't heavily featured in it, but no one knew that heading into the film, which added to the excitement. We had no idea how much Vader was going to be in it, but SW fans were excited to see him anyway. In fact, he was what many people wanted to see anyway. They wanted to see Vader in action, see more history of the Rebels and how the Death Star plans fell into the Rebels hands.

    Rogue One proved that the GA loves SW, but the question is:

    Will the GA get tired of the same old stuff year in and year out?
    And will Disney take a risk and step away from the Star Wars we know to tell stories without those same familiar trappings?
     
  7. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489
    Honestly it's unknown when it comes to film because the 5 films outside of the OT are still related to it in some way. The best we can do is speculate when it comes to SW in other mediums (novels, games, cartoons, etc) because they are not the same as film. Certain characters/storylines play out better in novels/games/cartoons than in films, and gamers are different from filmgoers. Just because a game is popular, it doesn't necessarily mean everyone will go out and see and love the film based on it.

    A lot of the "good feels" that we've gotten in the last two SW films is nostalgic. We've gotten two films that are practically dripping with OT nostalgia and story elements. I want to believe that it's more than nostalgia driving the success of these films, but I'd be remiss to think otherwise. Disney strongly marketed the TFA and R1 with that in mind, inviting all SW fans everywhere to return to the feeling of the OT, a classic film series they all know and love. Heck, when Han Solo said "Chewie, we're home...." in TFA, I'll bet that line was written by a marketing guy just so they could put it in the trailers. It was a way to say, "we're bringing you back to the classic OT Star Wars, folks. None of that prequel stuff!"

    Let me be clear: I personally want SW to be be critically and financially successful outside of the OT, I want to see new stories and I want them to not only be just as good as the OT, but exceed it. But will Disney take the risk? And will audiences embrace it if they do?
     
  8. Gavan

    Gavan Registered

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    5
    It doesn't matter. It's already ruined.

    The Legacy era comics from Dark Horse were much better. Some similar things happened, like there's an Empire of dark side users again and the Jedi are once again destroyed. But this didn't undercut the original heroes' efforts since it was set long, long after their time, beyond their watch. They weren't made incompetent and impotent. The new Sith weren't aping Palpatine and Vader (poorly, at that). Everything felt fresher while TFA felt stale.
     
    #83 Gavan, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  9. Elayis

    Elayis Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes Received:
    174
    Fatigue may or may not happen at the box office (it all depends on the hype narrative and whether the general consensus is positive or negative) but I’m sure from a narrative standpoint if they don’t majorly scale back production after 2019 to at minimum one film every three years they’ll drive the franchise into the dirt.

    Granted, I’m not a huge fan of the new films (though I still kinda enjoy TFA), but it seems like most people think TFA was pretty good but not better than the OT (maybe an 8/10), and Rogue One was flawed but still enjoyable (7/10). If these are the two films they’re starting out with, how does Disney expect to maintain a consistent level of quality with these fixed release dates?

    How many filmmakers have really great ideas for a new film, and that the studio is actually willing to hire and not interfere with? How many of those filmmakers actually want to make a Star Wars film, with all of the restrictions and scrutiny and potential career consequences? I’m sure there are plenty of journeyman directors that can churn out decent and inoffensive products, but these films should only be made when there is an innovative and narrative reason for it. Turning Star Wars movies into an assembly line will not produce the culturally significant and classic films that the OT is known for. How many people here want “just okay” Star Wars movies?

    Star Wars isn’t Marvel, there isn’t a plethora of sources and styles you can mix it up with. For most people, Star Wars is the OT, and the further you move away from that the less interested they’ll be. I can see the brand being diluted until it’s like Harry Potter/Fantastic Beasts or the Hobbit, still making a decent 600-800 mil per movie, but is that really what Disney will be satisfied with? I think the MCU films will also start reaching a plateau, with none of them passing $1.1 billion aside from the occasional outlier (like Infinity War part 1). Sure, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with making that much money per movie, but I don’t think the corporate overlords will see it that way.

    Again, all of these thoughts go to the legacy of the franchise, not how much money it continues to make or even the average audience consensus. If Disney continues on this course, Star Wars won’t mean the same to kids now and in the future as it did to people who grew up with the OT (and even the prequels). I realize that everything changes, that’s just the nature of things, but is it really ideal for it to become just another series, as interchangeable and innocuous as the next? Sure, the commercial aspect of SW has always been shamelessly moneygrubbing, but should films, and heart and soul of the franchise be that way too?
     
  10. sueb1863

    sueb1863 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    188
    It already doesn't mean the same to kids now. It hasn't for a long time.

    I work at a library and had a kid tell me that he liked the TV shows better than the movies. Not really surprising since that's how they're coming into the stories.

    What Disney's trying to do is keep fans interested and get new young fans to keep it going. If the movies stop making money, they'll change tactics, but they need a steady influx of new fans to maintain the brand's popularity. It's not easy or automatic.
     
    #85 sueb1863, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  11. scarlet-witch

    scarlet-witch Stormborn

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2016
    Messages:
    4,743
    Likes Received:
    594
    I agree with Sue, I don't think Star Wars means the same to kids now as it did for kids who grew up with the OT. Even myself, who grew up in the age of the prequels. I loved the OT, but I don't think I loved it the same way my parents did when they saw them. Or the way my sisters who were kids in the 80's and got to watch them did.

    They probably hope to make kids see what everyone else did, and it's still very popular with kids nowadays. But I think things like Marvel are resonating to them a bit more.
     
  12. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489
    Spot on with the Fantastic Beasts comparison, because this is exactly what I'm seeing the future of SW looking like.... an abundance of "side project" style films. Decent quality and all, don't get me wrong there, but with the proliferation of these types of films, Star Wars loses a bit of its charm. And with that goes its cultural significance.

    And yes I agree 100%, SW is not Marvel. Marvel is much more vast. Heck, Marvel Studios has made a killing with their B and C list characters.

    Like I said earlier, SW is certain things: Rebels, X-Wings, AT-ATs, Lightsabers, Star Destroyers, the Skywalkers, etc. I think the further you get away from the OT, the further you get away from the heart and soul of Star Wars, and that is when things get sketchy for future films. Every film so far touches the OT in some kind of way, and when they depart from the OT, it's going to take an amazing film for it to resonate with the GA.
     
  13. Orba

    Orba Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Messages:
    3,430
    Likes Received:
    27
    I think a big part of things will be what Disney have planned in relation to the state of the galaxy at the end new trilogy. I imagine that the status quo at the end of the trilogy will be something that Disney can use to expand the franchise, but a lot will depend on if people like it or not.
     
  14. sueb1863

    sueb1863 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    188
    Well, the Marvel comics have been around since what, the 1940s? They have a huge stable of well-established characters to work with. SW can't top that and it shouldn't try. It can be its own thing without having to try and be more popular than other franchises.
     
  15. Vincanws

    Vincanws Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't see Star Wars movies causing fatigue. There are way more of other movies for people to get tired of. A SW movie a year, or even two movies a year is nothing.
     
  16. RocketsNutz

    RocketsNutz Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    1
    To that point the Han Solo movie is critical as well. Yes R1 fits it very tightly to the OT in look and story - ie has a lot of those elements you mentioned. The Han Solo movie could go anywhere. We assume we'll see the Falcon, and assume maybe some imperial academy (I haven't looked to see if 'new' canon keeps his background), so we'll have some visual flavors, but I can't imagine the story itself really weaving into the OT the way Rogue one did, but I guess we'll see.

    I personally am still curious to see more stories about the background of Cassian and some of these other Rogue One rebels who apparently have done some things in their past that they aren't fully happy with. There's an undertone of darkness there, and if you had them sneaking around stormtroopers and imperial frigates and whatnot in a series done Neflix or Premium cable style, could be interesting and also add some more weight to the stories that we already know. Ie.. a grown up version of rebels, but maybe from the perspective of those closer to Organa/Mon Mothma (ie, groups that Hera was in contact with behind the scenes during Rebels season 1). Hell even throw in Snips.
     
  17. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489
    I doubt we see any of these R1 characters make a return. Too bad too because I didn't think they were done justice, especially Cassian and Jalen Erso.

    Han Solo, like R1, will take place in between Eps 3 & 4 and therefore will feature a lot of OT call backs. I'm curious if they will shoehorn C3PO and R2-D2 into the film as they are the only characters to make an appearance in every SW film so far. Seems like they will want to keep that streak going.
     
  18. InCali

    InCali I got a pUpgrade!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,291
    Likes Received:
    888
    So, here's my take on this. SW, from it's inception was much more limited than, say, MCU. The concepts of the source of power itself is more limited.

    I guess if I had a storyline, I'd make it that a way back was found by those following the dark side instead of just by Qui Gon and let things go from there. After something like that though.....then what? Maybe have some cool twist and delve into midichlorians. Maybe there's a story behind that....
     
  19. sueb1863

    sueb1863 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    188
    I'd go see a movie about Baze and Chirrut and their journey from Guardians of the Whills to freelance warriors. They were fun to watch.
     
  20. Pennywise

    Pennywise Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2016
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    4,795
    I think seeing a Cassian and K-2SO film would be pretty interesting.
     
  21. sueb1863

    sueb1863 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    188
    Yeah, there's got to be a story of why Cassian would be palling around with a reprogrammed Imperial droid. Was it Cassian who reprogrammed him?

    I'm catching vibes of the Galactica 1980 episode where Starbuck, stranded on an uninhabited planet, found and fixed a Cylon robot just so he'd have some company. It was the only good episode of that series...
     
  22. sirmarkus

    sirmarkus Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2018
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    7
    I think you're dead on. If they can continue with quality films they'll be fine. We might also start to see films that focus far more on being character driven than effects driven to lower budgets.
     
  23. Grootster

    Grootster Dancing Tree

    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    56
    It will all depend on how they handle the brand. I could watch a million more movies like Rogue One as long as they tell good stories, create cool characters, and expand the universe with interesting new ships and locations. On the other hand I'll get fatigued by stuff like The Force Awakens (with all of it's rehashing) and The Last Jedi (with all of it's "unexpectedness") really quick. Honestly, I'm already ready for the sequel trilogy to be finished, I just don't care anymore. I'm not going to say the brand is beyond hope though because surely they'll make something else good in the next several decades.

    I don't think the amount of movies is a huge issue. We get 2 or 3 Marvel movies a year, and I still look forward to them (and as far a I gather the general public does too). I think we could stand to get multiple Star Wars movies a year, as long as they're interesting and distinct. If they're all about superweapons, X-wings, and bigger versions of AT-AT walkers; yeah, the brand will get old really fast.
     
  24. writer0327

    writer0327 Registered

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    489
    It's funny as I read back through some of my thoughts in this thread, this is some of the fears that I had about other films post-Sequel Trilogy films, but Solo not so much. It seems that Star Wars fatigue has indeed settled in and might be here to stay for a while.
     
  25. Elayis

    Elayis Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes Received:
    174
    Yeah, I didn't expect it happen this quickly. I guess IX will tell us if Solo's box office is an outlier or the new normal.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"