Sequels Could the Clone saga work?

[Green Goblin 1964]

I got busy yesterday and I forgot about it, probably do it now lol. Oh yea who do we PM again, hunter rider?

Awesome name...

 

[BobJM]

I agree.

 

[Venom 1988]

Awesome name...

Yea heh thanks, people should still recognize me, got the same avy and sig still

 

[BobJM]

Exactly.

That's the thing. Everyone is changing there name and its getting so confusing, lol.

Plus, we've got an identity crisis going on with a certain member who refuses to admittance, lol. *hint, hint Sandman*

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

No,even for a film adaptation..it would be complicated.

 

[Rez]

It could make a great trilogy of films somewhere down the line.

Would things need to be "tweaked"?

Of course. But it's not like any of the Spiderman films thus far have been straight panel to panel adaptations. In fact, they've been little more than taking the characters and a few concepts here and there and mix mashing them up into movies.

Using the original clone saga, as well as the much longer and complicated 90's saga, as the basis for a trilogy of films could work quite successfully, if handled the right way.

I bring up the trilogy aspect because I think it would be nice to have another set of films built around the same concepts, having a longer arc, all of that- that's seen in the first 3 films. I was thinking that the symbiotes would have been a nice tie down for 4,5,6 but with Venom pretty much already handled that's obviously no longer the case. Will the 4th film be standalone or part of a larger story outline? Only time will tell. But as for the Clone Saga, I think it could make for a very decent trilogy somewhere down the line. Perhaps a 7-8-9? Or, if the next film is fairly stand alone(Say just featuring Lizard/Kraven as fandom is demanding and wrapping things up rather nicely), then why not leap into it for 5-6-7?

A problem with it is it has to be rooted in the Osborn legacy, and we've already had one trilogy of films with them as the connecting lines. So to have another trilogy of films with them as the backburning legacy, so close to the first trilogy, could be a bit stale too soon.

Anyway, here's a very brief rundown:

1st film: The Original CS, Miles Warren, his unhealthly crush on Gwen, fairly unconnected villian inserted into the film as a seperate thing ie Rhino, Scorpion, whatever. End it with the Spidey on Spidey battle and the explosion. Have a few Osborn references throughout the film- some photos, a throwaway line here or there.

2nd film: Some time has passed. Aunt May is dying. Bring in both Kaine and Ben Reilly, throw in some stuff about Peter being blamed for Kaine's murders. Play up the brother aspect. Few small time villian spots like shocker to deal with. I see Kaine, the murder thing, and the police as the main problem here- Aunt may dies circa Amazing 400 -toss in the jackal at the end and have the 3 spidermen come together to defeat him & redeem Kaine. If you want, throw the audience for a loop with the cliffhanger of the Peter they've been watching the whole movie is really the clone. Also, be sure to put in a couple more throwaway osborn things- maybe peter at a grave for a birthday or something.

3rd film- Blabla.. Basically the tail end of the CS arc from the 90s. MJ's pregnant .. Peter's distraught over being the clone, there's some soul searching and ben takes over for a while... another throwaway villian ala Sandman or the Vulture or whatever... big reveal is Osborne is alive, has been the whole time, and has been pulling the strings. Ben dies saving Peter, Osborne lives to fight another day as the Green Goblin, and the Baby..? Well that I leave up to you.


Anyway, I did that in about 5 minutes, and it's clearly pretty workable. We know how it all turns out so it would be fine to take some of the best concepts and use them. The brother aspect was great, cloning is a cool, moral argument, and there's plenty of nifty things that can be done with it. Again, just needs some restraint and a good writer to make it work.

 

[DACrowe]

^ Not bad. Considering I think after SM4 the franchise will start running on fumes that is a good way to expand it ot a SM7. The question is will audiences be willing to go with the franchise, that long?

 

[Otto Octavius]

^ Not bad. Considering I think after SM4 the franchise will start running on fumes that is a good way to expand it ot a SM7. The question is will audiences be willing to go with the franchise, that long?

Maybe,
But there probably wont be a SM-7

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think a Clone Saga could definitely work. Really, almost anything could work if you have a good enough writer.

Of course, I would absolutely NOT want Raimi to use the Clone Saga because I doubt he would try very hard to make it work. We saw what happened when Raimi had to use a villain he wasn't enthusiastic about, imagine what would happen if Raimi had to use a storyline he wasn't enthusiastic about.

 

[spidey-dude]

I love ben reilly and think there are some brilliant stories in the clone saga.....and would much much rather read it than the current 616 spidey bull I don't think it should be used in the movie.........
the original clone saga with miles warren and a spidey doppleganger maybe ruining his great rep with wuld be cool though.....

 

[Vaportrail]

You guys are crazy. I'd love to see the Scarlet Spider.
Though, if the Raimi black costume is an indication of how that outfit might change, I am sort of afraid.

The thing I never got with the Clone Saga is exactly why he was cloned, and when. I think Miles Warren/the Jackal is an amazing villain. One of my favorite issues is when Ben has gone into jail for Peter, who looks up Miles Warren only to find a clone of him and Gwen Stacy. They re-live the bridge incident a little bit. However, seeing as they already gave the bridge scene to MJ, that wouldn't really work.

There's three parts of it which stood out to me more than the rest.

1) Scarlet vs. Kaine vs. Grim Hunter. You could just as easily do that with Spider-Man, though.

2) Kaine's visions of MJ's death. The issue where Peter busts out of jail, finds MJ missing and Scarlet and another clone at his house, and they all end up fighting Kaine. w00t. Not sure what happens right before or right after, but that was one cool issue.

3) Peter finds out he's the clone @ the Jackal's hideout. He and Ben fight. I'd probably leave out Spidercyde, though. Ben gets locked into a large room fighting a bunch of Spidey clones ala the Burly Brawl. I think they could make that work so much better now. Then, Kaine shows up to help. It'd be a good finale, if they wanted something bigger than 2.


It would work. It's just such a big part of Spidey history, I think they should do it.
First though, I'd like to see Electro, or the Sinister Six. The Lizard. Carnage, maybe. I have a feeling that's what the Venom film is for though. (They better bring Spidey in to help or I'll be pissed.)

I would have the Clone Saga take up multiple films, but maybe that's just me. If they can't do it with the current series, I'd hope they would do a series of animated films in the style of the Marvel Ultimate Alliance cinematics. The Avengers straight-to-DVD style is getting kinda repetitive.

-Vaportrail

 

[The Joker]

Clone Saga was one of the worst periods in the Spidey comics. Only those of truly little taste would want to see such a horrible storyline put on screen.

There's far more deserving stories that should be done. The Clone Saga is an embarrassment to Marvel. The movies are not going to touch it, thank god.

 

[Eye Doc]

Clone Saga was one of the worst periods in the Spidey comics. Only those of truly little taste would want to see such a horrible storyline put on screen.

There's far more deserving stories that should be done. The Clone Saga is an embarrassment to Marvel. The movies are not going to touch it, thank god.

Well said Joker.

There are a lot better stories from the comics that I'd love to see on the big screen, and they'd translate much better. The clone Saga has a silly premise to begin with. Furthermore, it's far too complicated. If Spidey had an ongoing TV series, you could possibly adapt it for an multi-episode story arc (although wouldn't want to see it personally) and make it palatable. As a big screen feature film, Sony would just be throwing away their money. I can assure you the average fan wouldn't walk out saying Man, that was a really good story! . I think their reaction would be "what a dumb idea for a movie".

 

[spidey-dude]

dude have you read the clone saga cause most of what has followed in the last 10 or so years has been far worse and much more deserving of marvels embarrasment

saying that I agree there are far more deserving story lines for spiderman movies

 

[The Joker]

dude have you read the clone saga cause most of what has followed in the last 10 or so years has been far worse and much more deserving of marvels embarrasment

That's like saying this pile of crap is stinkier than this pile of crap. I know the stories in the last few years have been truly horrendous, too. I can't remember the last time I bought a 616 Spidey comic.

But, worse stories doesn't make the quality of the Clone Saga any better. It's still a terrible story.

 

[November Rain]

Clone Saga was one of the worst periods in the Spidey comics. Only those of truly little taste would want to see such a horrible storyline put on screen.

There's far more deserving stories that should be done. The Clone Saga is an embarrassment to Marvel. The movies are not going to touch it, thank god.

It can't be that embarassing considering they cut out all those good stories you spoke of and did an ultimate version of it in spidey's 100th issue.

They dedicated more issues to it than venom, sandman, kraven, x-men, sinister six, the shocker, vulture, electro, kingpin, morbius, hobgoblin and pretty much all the other arcs and spidey characters bar ock and norman.

ALthough the original one didn't go down well, the 'clone saga' is a buzz word that generates money and these films have become less about quality and more about making money so more than likely somewhere down the line, it may come to us in another format (since it's come in 616, 90s animation and also the ultimate line) such as the big screen.

 

[spidey-dude]

That's like saying this pile of crap is stinkier than this pile of crap. I know the stories in the last few years have been truly horrendous, too. I can't remember the last time I bought a 616 Spidey comic.

But, worse stories doesn't make the quality of the Clone Saga any better. It's still a terrible story.

I disagree there were some terrible stories in it, but some great ones too (death of aunt may, greatest resposibility, the lost years....)

If they didnt make peter the clone during it I don't think it would be remembered so sourly

I also rekon half the people who say it was crap didn't actually read it (the other half probs did just think it was crap)

 

[The Joker]

It can't be that embarassing considering they cut out all those good stories you spoke of and did an ultimate version of it in spidey's 100th issue.

Did you read Ultimate Clone Saga? It couldn't have been more different from the 616 version. Scorpion was a Peter clone, MJ turned into a big red furry Goblin, Doc Ock was the mastermind behind it all, there was no Scarlet Spider-Man etc.

Yeah, the 616 version is an embarrassment.

ALthough the original one didn't go down well, the 'clone saga' is a buzz word that generates money

What money does it generate? They haven't used it since it ended back in the 90's.

It was on the 90's animated series when the clone saga was happening in the comic books. And, it was just Scarlet Spider from an alternate dimension.

I disagree there were some terrible stories in it, but some great ones too (death of aunt may, greatest resposibility, the lost years....)

Death of Aunt May was ridiculous because it contradicted continuity. May claimed she knew all the time that Peter was Spider-Man, yet she spat venom every time Spidey was mentioned in the past, and even tried to shoot him once.

JMS' story about May learning the secret was much better.

I also rekon half the people who say it was crap didn't actually read it (the other half probs did just think it was crap)

I can't speak for everyone, but I read the whole thing. And, I thought it was crap.

Simple as that.

 

[spidey-dude]

fair enough that's you opinion though

you didnt think any of the stories were good at all????

 

[Eye Doc]

fair enough that's you opinion though

you didnt think any of the stories were good at all????

I'll answer that. I think PP#75 was the best issue of the Clone Saga. I liked it because:

a)Ben died
b)the story was actually good.

Peter and Norman faced off again in front of the entire supporting cast at the time.

Ben died heroically.

The story ended with Arthur Stacy suspicious of Spider-Man.

Things were set up for what appeared to be a new era of greatness for the character. Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 writers responsible for the beginning of the Clone Saga (Dematteis, deFalco, and Mackie) were allowed to stay aboard for the relaunch and Marvel allowed Ralph Macchio, a mediocre editor in hindsight, was hired to oversee things in the post clone era. Had things been handled better during Pete's return, I don't think a lot of the problems we've had to endure since the late 90's would've ever happened.

 

[Giant-Man]

I Doubt the clone saga would work

 

[The Joker]

I'll answer that. I think PP#75 was the best issue of the Clone Saga. I liked it because:

a)Ben died
b)the story was actually good.

Peter and Norman faced off again in front of the entire supporting cast at the time.

Ben died heroically.

The story ended with Arthur Stacy suspicious of Spider-Man.

Yes, that one and 'Web of Death' with Doc Ock was good. One of my favourite Doc Ock stories, actually. Just hated the ending.

 

[Vaportrail]

I just want to see a live-action Scarlet Spider.
Is that so much to ask?

EDIT:
I was browsing about, and went to SamRuby.com and looked up the Jackal.

Miles was a Professor at Peter Parker's Empire State University where he had a great infatuation for Peter's girlfriend, Gwen Stacy...Miles later blamed him for her death and took on the guise of the Jackal...He started cloning Peter and Gwen...He spent the years since his clone was killed in Amazing Spider-Man #149 to his return in #399 by genetically restructuring himself into a human-like Jackal.

Alright. This put a massive movie premise into my head, which I will now share.
This may sound like fan-fiction, but whatever. So be it. I'll write it out and see if it works on the page.

That's the movie, right there. Sub-plot of Spidey 4 or 5 would be prof. Miles Warren, and the soon-to-graduate Peter and Gwen. Miles is infatuated with her in the Eddie Brock sense of it, she's got the hots for Peter (despite his actions. I mean come on, his girl just dumped him). MJ is aware, so is Peter, but he's still with that silly red-head.

Captain Stacy would somehow be involved w/ either Spidey and/or Peter. Perhaps giving tips on the current villain. He dies as he does in the comics, big tragedy.. reveals he knows Peter's secret, the whole deal. In Gwen's tragedy, who's there for her? Dr. Warren.
Not sure if she'd actually be interested, but would prolly appreciate the comfort.

Alright. Re-do the bridge scenario. I know it happen in SM1, I don't care. Gimme a bad version. Spider-Man is stuck in a situation where he has to use his webs rather than jumping for her. Trapped by the villain, perhaps.

The tricky part is the villain. It can't be the Jackal who drops her off the bridge, and I don't want anymore goblins... so I dunno. Anyway, it'd happen. Warren would blame Peter since he was "with her that day".
He starts experimenting with cloning (she left a coat behind w/ hair on it, perhaps?) and eventually re-creates a Gwen for himself.

I'm not sure why he'd clone Peter yet, since I haven't read those, but you can see what I'm getting at.

If the "Clone Saga" film was more about the Jackal than it was the clones, I think it could work. We prolly wouldn't get much Scarlet and no Kaine unless it spanned two films... but I think it could really work.

-Vaportrail

 

[Venom160]

I just want to see a live-action Scarlet Spider.
Is that so much to ask?

Wish granted!

Found that somewhere around the hype. I think the clone saga would work but only if they completely rework the story (cutting out all the filler ****) and commiting two maybe three movies for it.

 

[Giant-Man]

You guys are crazy. I'd love to see the Scarlet Spider.
Though, if the Raimi black costume is an indication of how that outfit might change, I am sort of afraid.

The thing I never got with the Clone Saga is exactly why he was cloned, and when. I think Miles Warren/the Jackal is an amazing villain. One of my favorite issues is when Ben has gone into jail for Peter, who looks up Miles Warren only to find a clone of him and Gwen Stacy. They re-live the bridge incident a little bit. However, seeing as they already gave the bridge scene to MJ, that wouldn't really work.

There's three parts of it which stood out to me more than the rest.

1) Scarlet vs. Kaine vs. Grim Hunter. You could just as easily do that with Spider-Man, though.

2) Kaine's visions of MJ's death. The issue where Peter busts out of jail, finds MJ missing and Scarlet and another clone at his house, and they all end up fighting Kaine. w00t. Not sure what happens right before or right after, but that was one cool issue.

3) Peter finds out he's the clone @ the Jackal's hideout. He and Ben fight. I'd probably leave out Spidercyde, though. Ben gets locked into a large room fighting a bunch of Spidey clones ala the Burly Brawl.

If they did do it who'd u say should play Ben Rilly?