Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Coulson Lives! (the Clark Gregg aka Phil Coulson thread)

[cherokeesam]

@ Raiden

His death in The Avengers was the best part of the movie so of course they ruined it by having him needlessly return in cliche fashion.

Most people I've heard tend to think that all the, you know, massively epic superhero battles and the great dialogue and the entertaining interactions between these iconic characters was the best part of the movie. But you got a kick out of watching a support character get impaled by Loki? Okay then.

And I'm like everybody else here: what "cliche fashion" are you exactly talking about, since you apparently know the plot device they intend to use to explain his return? Do tell.

 

[Xeno]

Maybe Slushy just enjoys watching impalement? Everything has fans....

 

[jonathancrane]

xeno000: You are correct. One of the reasons I have distanced myself from horror fans is the morbidity surrounding the culture: the whole notion of a film having its merit judged by the kills always disturbed me, on several levels.

Returning to the thread at hand, I am intrigued as to how Coulson will return. If they do LMD, it will at least have a small connecting thread in TA (the throwaway LMD line.) However, Coulson surviving does create a mirror to the scene with Loki: Loki survived a blast from a weapon cannalbalized from the machine that killed Thor. It balances out that Coulson survives a cheap stab-in-the-back.

 

[Slushy]

@cherokeesam

Deaths in comic books / comic book movies have no meaningful because they always find a way to bring said person back. Its cheap and annoying.

I enjoyed Coulson's death because I wasn't expecting it and his character had served his purpose in the franchise by bringing The Avengers together.

If you're going to kill off somebody, have them stay dead. Simple as that.

 

[cherokeesam]

@cherokeesam

Deaths in comic books / comic book movies have no meaningful because they always find a way to bring said person back. Its cheap and annoying.

I enjoyed Coulson's death because I wasn't expecting it and his character had served his purpose in the franchise by bringing The Avengers together.

If you're going to kill off somebody, have them stay dead. Simple as that.

As you yourself say, it's part of the genre: "Nobody ever stays dead in Marvel, except Uncle Ben."

And Coulson's death as the big "rallying point" for the Avengers is greatly exaggerated. The earth was under attack, and the Avengers were the only ones who were going to stand a snowball's chance in hell of saving it. They all knew that. Nobody was getting ready to quit, except for maybe Tony.

Coulson's death was nothing more than an excuse for some midpoint drama and a chance for RDJ to chew some scenery. All the other heroes were ready to get back into the fight, with or without some emotional death scene.

And "they were going to need something to avenge"....? No...no, they weren't. It was called the "Avenger Initiative" long, LONG before they "had anything to avenge." There was no real reason behind the name, in the MCU *or* the comics. Hell, in the comics, Janet Van Dyne came up with the name in the first ish just because it sounded cool, and the Founders were spitballing ideas for what to call their little group.

 

[Bren]

Regardless, it was a meaningful death if Coulson meant anything to you. My 13 and 9 year old kids were pretty shocked at his death. And had I not read spoilers before (stupid me) I would have gone all out Darth Vader "nooooooooo!!!" It meant something, took someone we cared about away.

So now he's back, and that CAN lessen the impact of another death. That's why some feel he should have stayed dead.

Personally, I'm glad he's back because I really liked his character. And I'm hoping his 'return' is due to something seriously hectic.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

How can it lessen the impact when the impact has already happened? It's not as if The Avengers is a new movie every time you watch it.

 

[Bren]

I'm referring to if someone else important and/or well liked dies, in this show.

 

[Destructus86]

I think his death had impact in that it brought the Avengers together...but coming back doesn't lessen that impact because now the Avengers are a team no matter if he is a live or dead.

Anyway...let's start making guesses on HOW he comes back.
I'm calling it now...alien tech. And that tech is going to have consequences.

 

[Xeno]

I'm referring to if someone else important and/or well liked dies, in this show.

It would be very interesting if one of the new agents dies, and then the others keep hoping for another Coulson-style resurrection that never happens. Say half of FitzSimmons bites it (doesn't matter which one) and the survivor starts a never-ending quest to return the other to life, becoming increasingly frantic and bitter as time goes on. That would be the perfect dose of acid to cut the cuteness quotient down to palatable levels.

 

[cherokeesam]

It would be very interesting if one of the new agents dies, and then the others keep hoping for another Coulson-style resurrection that never happens. Say half of FitzSimmons bites it (doesn't matter which one) and the survivor starts a never-ending quest to return the other to life, becoming increasingly frantic and bitter as time goes on. That would be the perfect dose of acid to cut the cuteness quotient down to palatable levels.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to have "forced resurrection" become a major plot point in the show (or any Marvel movie, for that matter), but I think you hit on a good answer to those who think that Coulson's return will cheapen/lessen future onscreen deaths of favorite characters. There's always going to be the uncertainty there: Will Marvel bring them back? Will there be a recast? To me, that creates more anxiety and tension for a "dead" character than one who is irrevocably gone and out of the picture permanently.

 

[A R E S]

They never really showed that he died. Only Fury said it and it is also shown that he doesn't care to manipulate only to get what he wants (Coulson's cards). Who would trust Nick Fury that Coulson died? I always thought, that the movie should have shown that Fury lied about Coulson's death too. It feels much more natural, than the thought that he died. And about the speculating about how he comes back. I don't find it anymore, but i think i have read an interview few days ago, where it was already confirmed that Fury lied about his death. That's it.

 

[jaqua99]

Pretty sure Joss has flat out said that he died, and the he comes back to life. He definitely was dead, it's been said.

 

[Vartha]

It doesn't mean the EMT's didn't jump start Phil's heart tho

 

[cherokeesam]

It doesn't mean the EMT's didn't jump start Phil's heart tho

Or that Coulson has a pre-existing alien, cyborg, superpowered or supernatural physiology that only he and Fury knows about.

 

[metaphysician]

It doesn't mean the EMT's didn't jump start Phil's heart tho

This. People need to realize that there is a lot of ambiguity in the word "dead". Even with real world tech, Coulson could have flatlined for quite a few minutes and still been revived. . . and SHIELD very obviously is not limited to real world technology. As for "but he got stabbed through the chest"? He obviously didn't suffer an immediately fatal heart/spine hit. . . since he proceeded to talk with Loki and Fury afterwards. Horribly wounded, yes, but not instantly dead, which puts an upper limit on how much damage was actually inflicted.

 

[Vartha]

Yeah but worse things have happened to people in real life and they've lived. Heck I work with a guy that made steel stair cases, he fell onto some rebar at a constuction site impaling himself and he's alive today doing Security Guard work.


to be honest I haven't really checked the EXACT angle the spear of destiny went INTO phil and it could have missed several things.
for that matter in Europe it didn't even go all the way through hahahaha

 

[Silvermoon]

Yeah but worse things have happened to people in real life and they've lived. Heck I work with a guy that made steel stair cases, he fell onto some rebar at a constuction site impaling himself and he's alive today doing Security Guard work.


to be honest I haven't really checked the EXACT angle the spear of destiny went INTO phil and it could have missed several things.
for that matter in Europe it didn't even go all the way through hahahaha

Some of my twitter friends that are in Europe have likened the European version of the death as "death by wedgie"

 

[mkilban2]

lol death by wedgie! I've always wondered if they meant to change that scene for the return of coulson, or just because people were complaining that the scene was too graphic (which it was really mild compared to some of the stuff in movies haha)

 

[Slushy]

Didn't Clark Gregg say he wasn't interested in reprising his role following Avengers? Marvel must've paid him a lot of money to change his mind, lol.

Anyway...let's start making guesses on HOW he comes back.
I'm calling it now...alien tech. And that tech is going to have consequences.

No explaination. He's just going to come back having no sold a deathblow from Loki.

 

[cherokeesam]

Didn't Clark Gregg say he wasn't interested in reprising his role following Avengers? Marvel must've paid him a lot of money to change his mind, lol.



No explaination. He's just going to come back having no sold a deathblow from Loki.

No, Gregg was very shocked to hear Coulson was getting the axe -- er, spear. He campaigned pretty vocally with the rest of the "Coulson Lives!" ad hoc groups that sprang up all over the Internet in trying to get a way to write himself back into the MCU. He loves his character, and he's having too much fun with it to let all this go that easily.

And he's also said the reason for Coulson's return will be a major plot point for the series, and extend across most of the season. Even he's not exactly sure which explanation they're going to use.

 

[eddy]

It would be very interesting if one of the new agents dies, and then the others keep hoping for another Coulson-style resurrection that never happens. Say half of FitzSimmons bites it (doesn't matter which one) and the survivor starts a never-ending quest to return the other to life, becoming increasingly frantic and bitter as time goes on. That would be the perfect dose of acid to cut the cuteness quotient down to palatable levels.

Sounds like the Willow/Tara storyline to me.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

for that matter in Europe it didn't even go all the way through hahahaha

Not Europe but in some countries. I think they censored the scene in UK but we get the real thing in France.

 

[Vartha]

I know some theaters there got the edited variant the 1st weekend that weren't SUPPOSED to have gotten it.
I DID see a french version that had the edited scene.


Here's the Phil Coulson Fan Crest I made

 

[Vartha]

Some of my twitter friends that are in Europe have likened the European version of the death as "death by wedgie"

hahahaha Super wedgie lol