The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Critic bias towards this franchise?

[GremlinZilla89]

Raimi pulls off cheese much more effectively than Webb, Raimi's career was launched by it. Webb clearly didn't know what the hell he wanted to do with this movie, hell evidently this entire series.

What? If anything I think Webb knew EXACTLY what he wanted for this film.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Agreed. Raimi I don't think mocked the genre at all. I think he paid tribute to HIS era of Spider-Man. Things like Spider-Man taking his boot off and letting the sand out on a rooftrop are totally straight out of 60s Spider-Man, which was one of his best eras. This whole "cheese" argument has become a buzz word, and I honestly feel like people don't know what cheese is, nor understand the fact that Spider-Man, himself, is a cheesy character.

A buzz word because you don't agree with it.

Nobody is saying Raimi is mocking anything. I'm saying his humor is more ironic and tongue-in-cheek in his films, which doesn't work for ME and what I want from the character.

I know how Raimi started in film. I adore the Evil Dead trilogy. But much of the humor in his Spider-Man films are Evil Dead like gags without the gore. Hence, the wink-wink, nudge-nudge aspect I'm referring to. I'm simply saying I don't think his humor worked well with the drama of his films. They clashed mightily imo. Especially in 2 and 3.

 

[Picard Sisko]

It was always strange how Raimi's humor was never passed on to Spider-Man. He had some quips here and there, but he wasn't a funny Spider-Man. Yet he lived in a world full of goofiness.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I disagree, the style is like that because it's Sam Raimi's style and loves the genre so much.

What makes you think Raimi "loves" the genre?

He gave up comics when he was a child.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

IMO, the "unnecessary" comments can be justified. There's always going to be a bit of an uphill battle with reboots. Especially one that came so soon after the first series. The film should able to convey the importance/meaning/rationale behind the reboot (other than studio business) through a truly unique vision, fantastic performances, and a well crafted story, etc. For film critics, a good film typically does not encompass more fidelity to the source material (ie: a wisecracking Spider-Man) like it does for fans . If the critics believe that the film fell short or was just another passable/okay Spider-Man film, then to them it may very well have felt "unnecessary".

And I don't think that slapping a popular director's name onto a film actually helps with reviews. If anything, it bolsters expectations of what the film will be like and leads to more disappointment/scrutiny if he/she delivers anything less than their previous body of work.

It depends on the critic.

Critics love movies like geeks love comic books.

Are you certain film critics are immune to fandom any more than geeks?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Agreed. Raimi I don't think mocked the genre at all. I think he paid tribute to HIS era of Spider-Man. Things like Spider-Man taking his boot off and letting the sand out on a rooftrop are totally straight out of 60s Spider-Man, which was one of his best eras. This whole "cheese" argument has become a buzz word, and I honestly feel like people don't know what cheese is, nor understand the fact that Spider-Man, himself, is a cheesy character.

I have no problem with cheese. The Mask is one of my favorite comic book movies.

The problem with the Raimi-verse is it's so self-aware with intentional bad acting it becomes condescending towards comic book fans.

When Raimi has the actors intentionally have bad acting scenes it doesn't come off as a respectful tribute to me. Not at all. The bad acting is like an adult saying they love and respect Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles just as much as you and then re-creating their favorite episode with sock puppets.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Raimi pulls off cheese much more effectively than Webb, Raimi's career was launched by it. Webb clearly didn't know what the hell he wanted to do with this movie, hell evidently this entire series.

Webb was obviously pushed by the studio to copy Raimi's tone for the sequel in a desperate attempt to regain the OT's audience.

You know what they say, "envy is ignorance, imitation is suicide".

If the ASM franchise started dark and grounded, it should've finished dark and grounded. There were plenty of darker villains to choose from (Kraven, Carnage) to finish the trilogy with the same tone.

You either reboot with a different tone or you continue Raimi's tone with a recast SM4-SM6. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

I have no problem with cheese. The Mask is one of my favorite comic book movies.

The problem with the Raimi-verse is it's so self-aware with intentional bad acting it becomes condescending towards comic book fans.

When Raimi has the actors intentionally have bad acting scenes it doesn't come off as a respectful tribute to me. Not at all. The bad acting is like an adult saying they love and respect Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles just as much as you and then re-creating their favorite episode with sock puppets.

Then what the hell is Max Dillion? He is literally the embodiement of the nerd in every sterotypical/cliche way possible. Or Kafka? A character who is basically a chunk of cheese.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Then what the hell is Max Dillion? He is literally the embodiement of the nerd in every sterotypical/cliche way possible. Or Kafka? A character who is basically a chunk of cheese.

I agree and address this in post #257.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

I agree and address this in post #257.

So why is it ok for Webb to do it straight on, no holds barred, but it's a problem if Raimi supposedly does it, which he doesn't but you choose to interpret it as such? Sounds like a double standard to me.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So why is it ok for Webb to do it straight on, no holds barred, but it's a problem if Raimi supposedly does it, which he doesn't but you choose to interpret it as such? Sounds like a double standard to me.

Because I liked Webb's execution of a darker Spider-man universe over Raimi's execution of overly self-aware, lighter version.

I think both Webb and Raimi's light-hearted material falls flat. It could work in theory but not the way it's been done thus far.

 

[The Endless]

The world Raimi built for his Spider-Man was a bit more fantastical. The world Webb built in his first Spidey film was much more grounded and "realistic" for lack of a better term.

Goofiness stands out more in a "realistic" world. In a bad way. It's more jarring.

 

[Lord]

Raimi made actors act badly on purpose? I don't remember that.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Raimi made actors act badly on purpose? I don't remember that.

The acting is the worst from the pedestrians and side characters especially.

It's embarrassingly bad.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The world Raimi built for his Spider-Man was a bit more fantastical. The world Webb built in his first Spidey film was much more grounded and "realistic" for lack of a better term.

Goofiness stands out more in a "realistic" world. In a bad way. It's more jarring.

That is exactly it. It is one of the reasons It was more generic 60's comic book come to life. So the cookie cutter ideas and all the typical archetype characters fit. It is only one of the reasons I find the films to be a bit generic.

In comparison Webb's tones in the first film continually clash imo. He tries to do too many different things in this regard.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Raimi made actors act badly on purpose? I don't remember that.

He didn't. Revisionist history due to a buzz word being adopted.

 

[BatmanFanboy]

The acting is the worst from the pedestrians and side characters especially.

It's embarrassingly bad.

That is ridiculous. If you think any scene from the first 2 Raimi Spider-mans are poorly acted then you have no taste. I watch those films all the time and the acting is fantastic all around. Raimi knew the proper tone, Webb clearly does NOT. Which is why the second film has such a drastically(and yes, jarring) tone from the first movie in the new series. You'd have to be blind to not see that.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I wouldn't say that the acting in the Raimi films was bad, but it wasn't always believable. The breakup scene in SM3 was painful to watch. Something that should have been emotional turned into something that made the entire theater crack up.

 

[Picard Sisko]

That is ridiculous. If you think any scene from the first 2 Raimi Spider-mans are poorly acted then you have no taste. I watch those films all the time and the acting is fantastic all around. Raimi knew the proper tone, Webb clearly does NOT. Which is why the second film has such a drastically(and yes, jarring) tone from the first movie in the new series. You'd have to be blind to not see that.

I don't think you have a right to tell him that. It's his opinion. Don't go around telling people "you have no taste" because you disagree. And to be honest, I think the side characters and pedestrians were poorly depicted. "If you want to get to Spider-Man you gotta get through me. And me. And me." Let's not forget the girl screaming, "GO SPIDER-MAN, GO!" while the rest of the people behind her were awkwardly silent.

 

[Tony Stark]

The acting is the worst from the pedestrians and side characters especially.

It's embarrassingly bad.

The main cast was excellent, but I'll agree on the extras. It was kind of a throwback to the Donner Superman films, only in this it didn't work.

"look there's Spider-man"
"it's a web!"

however I did like the montage in the first film where they incorporated normal people on the street, "he throws his hands up and ropes come out, and he climbs up the rope like a spider." Those weren't extras, they just went up to average people in New York and asked them about Spider-man.

They did intermix that with actors, i.e. "some kinda freaky wackadoo"

The worst for me was the third film where they did the play by play from the news reporters in the end battle. It was terrible.

Tragically the actress Lucy Gordon who played the TV reporter, committed suicide in 2009. So I'm not going to deride that performance too much.

 

[The Endless]

The "some kinda freaky wackadoo" cop always cracks me up.

 

[Lord]

"Go Spidey Go!" and all other side characters are bad? I allways found those bits amusing, gives some energy to the films, which is more in line with classic Hollywood than the modern idea that everything needs to be pseudo-realistic.

 

[The Joker]

The only bad acting from the extras in Raimi's was in those SM-3 final battle scenes. I don't like to speak ill of the dead but the lady who played the British reporter was awful, as were Sam Raimi's kids.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

"Go Spidey Go!" and all other side characters are bad? I allways found those bits amusing, gives some energy to the films, which is more in line with classic Hollywood than the modern idea that everything needs to be pseudo-realistic.

I guess it depends if you watch the movie with a skeptical eye or a more forgiving one.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

He didn't. Revisionist history due to a buzz word being adopted.

Does "buzz word" equal any word that criticizes the Raimi trilogy?