Civil War Daniel Bruhl Joins the Cast as Baron Zemo!

[pr0xyt0xin]

I like the Taskmaster rumor.



Perhaps there are several assassins hired to off Cap. Including Crossbones and Taskmaster.

 

[cherokeesam]

I like the Taskmaster rumor.



Perhaps there are several assassins hired to off Cap. Including Crossbones and Taskmaster.

We know that Iron Man, Black Panther, Black Widow, Falcon, and (probably) Hawkeye are in this movie, too. Who would order a hit on Cap specifically, while leaving pretty much the rest of Avengers 2.5 out of that contract?

 

[cherokeesam]

You're thinking the comics, which is usually a mistake. Comics are not the movies and movies are not the comics. They could easily give Zemo a much larger role than he had in the original story, such as having him attempt to manipulate the events of the conflict to his own advantage from the sidelines.

If they aren't going to use Red Skull then he could fill the role Skull played in the original plot where he was the one waiting for Cap's side to fall so that he could swoop in and strike when the heroes were at their weakest.

So there you go....all the more reason for them to use Red Skull proper, rather than a watered-down version of Skully and his story.

By the token of your original argument we might as well have been asking "What the bad place are Black Widow and Alexander Pierce doing in a movie based off the Winter Soldier storyline?!" or "Why are Black Widow and Hawkeye in an Avengers origin tale?!"

(a) Black Widow already has plenty of canonical connections to Winter Soldier, so it's a no-brainer. Pierce is a complete head-scratcher, a very obscure throwaway character who was elevated to a major role in the movie.

(b) Widow and Hawkeye were very early original Avengers, and pretty iconic members of the team for decades to come. They were most likely added in to fill the gaping hole left by canonical founders Gi(ant)-Man and Wasp, all thanks to Edgar Wright dicking around for way too long on the Ant-Man movie.

 

[MbJ]

So there you go....all the more reason for them to use Red Skull proper, rather than a watered-down version of Skully and his story.

Nope. I'd rather they use something new than rehashing a guy they've already done.

(a) Black Widow already has plenty of canonical connections to Winter Soldier

Absolutely none of which were relevant to the movie or the MCU canon. They could have used literally anyone else as Cap's partner in the movie since her ties to Bucky's origin were nonexistent in the movie, save for her having been shot at by him in the past.

(b) Widow and Hawkeye were very early original Avengers, and pretty iconic members of the team for decades to come. They were most likely added in to fill the gaping hole left by canonical founders Gi(ant)-Man and Wasp, all thanks to Edgar Wright dicking around for way too long on the Ant-Man movie.

So by your own account it was okay because they were slotted in to replace characters who didn't make sense for the story given the nature of the MCU. Hmmm....kinda like using Zemo instead of Red Skull for the Civil War!

 

[seahammer]

Im sticking to my theory that he actually is Mordo and that he will be a member of HYDRA. With "Baron" being a high ranking title in HYDRA.

While I am more excited about Zemo than Mordo, your idea for "Baron" being a Hydra rank is just awesome, and now I really hope it happens. Is that from the comics, or your own beautiful brain?

 

[The Infernal]

I like the Taskmaster rumor.



Perhaps there are several assassins hired to off Cap. Including Crossbones and Taskmaster.

Taskmaster would be cool, but I'd like to see him turn up on SHIELD and/or some of the Netflix shows. The tv side could do with some notable and costumed characters and Taskmaster as a recurring character could be great.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

so many news sittes just copy paste the text he could appear as main villain in dr. strange. so he has either just a small introductionpart in civil war (which means he is baron mordo) or they confused things and he is just in cap 3 as baron zemo. does some of you know about his contract with marvel? will he have a multi deal or will it be like thomas kretschmann. a small cameo and then a sligthly bigger part in age of ultron?

 

[sdc10]

While I am more excited about Zemo than Mordo, your idea for "Baron" being a Hydra rank is just awesome, and now I really hope it happens. Is that from the comics, or your own beautiful brain?

No thats just something I came up with. If they were to somehow tie Mordo into HYDRA, that would potentially be three different Barons that could be associated with them (Von Strucker, Zemo, Mordo). Just thought it would make sense that their Baron titles reflect their rank in the organization.

 

[SpideyFan866]

As far as Zemo goes..... it's likely that Bruhl would be playing Helmut Zemo, the son (or in this case, likely grandson) of Heinrich, whom Captain America fought in WWII.

 

[Dr. Evil]

As far as Zemo goes..... it's likely that Bruhl would be playing Helmut Zemo, the son (or in this case, likely grandson) of Heinrich, whom Captain America fought in WWII.

 

[Loki882]

Admittedly, the Mordo thing could be amusing:

"Lord Dormammu, everything is going according to plan. The metal man and the one with the ridiculous shield are fighting each other, and the others are being drawn into it as well."

"Good good, you have done well Mordo. They're all acting like such trigger-happy idiots that soon the good doctor will be forced to intervene just t prevent them from killing each other. And then we strike, this plan cannot possibly fail."

"But didn't you say that about your plan to manipulate the HYDRA into killing Strange? Because that didn't work out so good."

"Silence you fool, do not question my genius."

 

[MbJ]

As far as Zemo goes..... it's likely that Bruhl would be playing Helmut Zemo, the son (or in this case, likely grandson) of Heinrich, whom Captain America fought in WWII.

In this case he'd likely be his grandson or great grandson. Being the son of a Nazi war criminal would put Zemo Jr. 60's or 50's at the youngest.

 

[Chris B]

I find it pretty dubious that he would be playing Mordo. So I'd agree that Zemo would make the most sense.

 

[Six]

In this case he'd likely be his grandson or great grandson.

I'd say grandson is most likely. I'm 20 and my grandpa fought in ww2. and he wasn't a minor either. Bruhl is in his mid to late 30s

Of course its not impossible that Helmut Zemo had him really late in his 60s, therefore making it possible for his dad to be that old.

 

[Keyser Soze]

What, exactly, is cool about Baron Zemo? Normal guy, stereotypical neo-Nazi scenery-chewer still fighting WWII after 70+ years, good with a rifle and an ordinary sword, wears a bright purple mask, leads a small team of 3rd-string henchvillains nobody's ever heard of, prime motivation is a stereotypical mission to avenge a dead (grand)parent-villain audiences have never heard of or given reason to care about, and whose only noteworthy "superweapon" is a signature glue gun....? *Strongly* doubt audiences would be the least bit impressed.

I'm a 90s kid, so I'll always have a fondness for Baron Zemo for his starring role in the original Thunderbolts run, still one of the all-time great comic book supervillain masterplans. And he's been a noted badass in other stories, from the famous story back in the day where he coordinated the Masters of Evil's siege of the Avengers Mansion to the more recent havoc he wrecked on the life of Bucky Barnes back when he was the acting Captain America.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So there you go....all the more reason for them to use Red Skull proper, rather than a watered-down version of Skully and his story.

Why would Marvel go to through the plot somersaults of bringing back a character who is:

1. Presumably dead after being zapped into space by the Cube.
2. Likely having to be recast given Hugo Weaving's disinterest in returning.
3. Not particularly popular in his movie incarnation anyway.

When it'd be much easier to slot a character with a similar motivation and a shared emnity with Captain America into the Red Skull's role in the story, someone who can be a fresh villain for a new actor to play.

While I can understand Marvel being compelled to bring back Red Skull for the sake of symmetry in the trilogy and wouldn't object if they end up going that direction, I don't feel its necessary, and I'd rather see Baron Zemo here.

 

[cherokeesam]

So by your own account it was okay because they were slotted in to replace characters who didn't make sense for the story given the nature of the MCU. Hmmm....kinda like using Zemo instead of Red Skull for the Civil War!

Uh....what? No, by my own account, Widow & Hawkeye were slotted into founding MCU Avenger roles because Edgar Wright ****ed up "Ant-Man" to the point that Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne --- the *original* founding Avengers --- were left out of their iconic and canonical namesake team and, you know, marginalized in what's left of the Ant-Man film. Hank & Janet were *supposed* to be in the original Avengers film because, Avengers. When Wright screwed that up, Marvel had to settle on the next likely canonical entrants to the roster, viz. Clint & Tasha.

Your analogy is nowhere near the mark.

Why would Marvel go to through the plot somersaults of bringing back a character who is:

1. Presumably dead after being zapped into space by the Cube.
2. Likely having to be recast given Hugo Weaving's disinterest in returning.
3. Not particularly popular in his movie incarnation anyway.

When it'd be much easier to slot a character with a similar motivation and a shared emnity with Captain America into the Red Skull's role in the story, someone who can be a fresh villain for a new actor to play.

While I can understand Marvel being compelled to bring back Red Skull for the sake of symmetry in the trilogy and wouldn't object if they end up going that direction, I don't feel its necessary, and I'd rather see Baron Zemo here.

1. There is nothing at all to suggest that Red Skull's teleportation to Wherever killed him. Especially in light of the character's iconic comic-book career as Cap's archnemesis through multiple generations.

2. If I'm right, Skully HAS already been recast. No search needed.

3. Says you.

Bringing Skull back makes sense not only for the obvious homage to the comics, where Skull remains THE primary nemesis of Cap, but also makes sense within the MCU. Arnim Zola's motivations, and his unbridled evil genius, would become all the more apparent if it was revealed that the reason he kept HYDRA alive all these years was because he was still searching for (and receiving) contact with Schmidt somewhere in the cosmos, and arranging for his return from deep space.


All of you guys rallying around Team Zemo, good luck. I'm not gonna ragequit if he gets the call; it's all good. But I think I'm on the side of the general audience and the vast majority of Marvel comic fans when I root for Team Skully.

And all you guys with visions of Thunderbolts dancing in your heads, y'all *do* realize this movie is already confirmed to feature Cap, Iron Man, Black Panther, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Crossbones, and probably Hawkeye and Black Widow at the least, not to mention non-supers like Sharon Carter and possibly Fury and Hill; and yet you want to introduce not only one new villain, Zemo, into the mix, but also any combination of Beetle, Moonstone, Songbird, Atlas, Fixer, Venom, Penance, Green Goblin, Ghost and god knows who else (most of whom belong to other studios anyway)....???

 

[Whatupman]

All of you guys rallying around Team Zemo, good luck. I'm not gonna ragequit if he gets the call; it's all good. But I think I'm on the side of the general audience and the vast majority of Marvel comic fans when I root for Team Skully.
:

So now it's a popularity contest? And why do you think you're on the side of the general audience? I don't remember much love being thrown Red Skull's way after Captain America: The First Avenger.

 

[BatsDC]

Red Skull won't be in this. You're telling me they'll work in his return and explanation in addition to everything else going on in this? Red Skull in my opinion works best coming back in Infinity War, and I imagine that is when we'll see him next.

 

[cherokeesam]

Red Skull won't be in this. You're telling me they'll work in his return and explanation in addition to everything else going on in this? Red Skull in my opinion works best coming back in Infinity War, and I imagine that is when we'll see him next.

Which story would be easier to execute from a writer's standpoint: (a) wrapping up loose ends with the return of the archvillain from Segment 1 of an alleged trilogy, connected to the stories of already existing Cap villains like Crossbones and Arnim Zola....a story, I'll add again, that's entirely canonical and expected from comic fans; or (b) the introduction of an entirely new villain, and possibly a whole entirely new team of entirely new henchvillains, for no other reason than variety?

Red Skull's return makes sense in the context of a film based on Civil War and (probably) Fallen Son. The story was already written by Brubaker years ago, and it's easily the most popular one(s) in the Cap lexicon. Why would Marvel *not* honor that, when they've already shown how much they like Brubaker in TWS?

 

[Loki882]

Not really. As other people have already pointed out, Marvel only loosely adapts comic the comic stories. Alexander Pierce wasn't the main villain of the Winter Soldier comic arc. Age of Ultron has nothing in common with the comics story besides the name. IM 3 was a VERY loose adaptation of the Warren Ellis's Extremis story (which didn't feature the Mandarin in ANY capacity, nor was Aldrich Killian the main villain. In fact, the main villain of that arc, Mallen, didn't appear in the movie AT ALL), etc.

The first problem that they'd have to overcome is explaining:

1. Where the Red Skull went at the end of TFA?
2. How he got back?
3. Why now?

That's asking a lot in a movie that already looks to be pretty crowded. There's nothing about the villain plot in CW that necessitates that it HAS to be Red Skull. You could swap him out for Zemo and do pretty much the exact same plot.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I feel like if Marvel wanted to pull the whole "Red Skull has been reincarnated in a different form and is existing in present day America as the mastermind behind a grand evil plan" card, there never would have been a more pitch-perfect opportunity to do that than in The Winter Soldier. bad place, half of us were convinced that Alexander Pierce would be the Red Skull, but he ended up just being Alexander Pierce. If Marvel didn't jump on that perfect, gift-wrapped opportunity to resurrect Red Skull, I'm not sure if they ever will.

 

[MbJ]

Not really. As other people have already pointed out, Marvel only loosely adapts comic the comic stories. Alexander Pierce wasn't the main villain of the Winter Soldier comic arc. Age of Ultron has nothing in common with the comics story besides the name. IM 3 was a VERY loose adaptation of the Warren Ellis's Extremis story (which didn't feature the Mandarin in ANY capacity, nor was Aldrich Killian the main villain. In fact, the main villain of that arc, Mallen, didn't appear in the movie AT ALL), etc.

The first problem that they'd have to overcome is explaining:

1. Where the Red Skull went at the end of TFA?
2. How he got back?
3. Why now?

That's asking a lot in a movie that already looks to be pretty crowded. There's nothing about the villain plot in CW that necessitates that it HAS to be Red Skull. You could swap him out for Zemo and do pretty much the exact same plot.

Ding ding ding

We have a winnah.

 

[HAMMER]

I feel like if Marvel wanted to pull the whole "Red Skull has been reincarnated in a different form and is existing in present day America as the mastermind behind a grand evil plan" card, there never would have been a more pitch-perfect opportunity to do that than in The Winter Soldier. bad place, half of us were convinced that Alexander Pierce would be the Red Skull, but he ended up just being Alexander Pierce. If Marvel didn't jump on that perfect, gift-wrapped opportunity to resurrect Red Skull, I'm not sure if they ever will.

Wasn't that basically the plot of the Winter Soldier EMH episode too? I'm glad Pierce turned out to be just Pierce. Whether he be Zemo, Mordo, Taskmaster, or any other villain, I just hope he isn't Red Skull. Like other said, save Skull for Phase 4 or later, Zemo would be a nice way to finish the first Cap trilogy with all the iconic villains.

 

[MbJ]

Wasn't that basically the plot of the Winter Soldier EMH episode too?

Yeah. Red Skull returned and was hiding out as a U.S. politication, where it was eventually revealed he was the mastermind behind the Winter Soldier the entire time.