Daredevil Daredevil: FULL SEASON ONE Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

[Mike Murdock]

Which scenes in the first season were recreations of comic scenes? Obviously, the shot with Stone and (at least arguably) the opening scene with young Matt (depending on which age version you go with). Any others?

 

[John Kimble]

it really is a great show Netflix has made.

 

[Sleiek]

So I finally watched the whole season in the last 3 days.

I really really loved it. Love the first time they show him in full costume, goosebump inducing.

Great tone and pace. Super awesome choreography. I can't wait for season 2.

 

[voyzovrezon]

I finished the season last night, eps 11 & 12. I had a feeling Leland was going to bite the dust, but not BEN! That just sucked. I couldn't believe Leland admitted to that ogre Wilson that he actually had Vanessa poisoned, even with Det. Hoffman being his insurance.

The series reminds me a lot of "Arrow." (this is just a comparison of the tv series) There are many similarities, including the hero wanting to save his city, had been trained by men who found them in perilous circumstances, both getting their costumes/masks complete by the end of the season, their fathers were murdered, both have pretty blondes working for them who are resourceful and take risks, both ended up revealing their masked identity via being injured by the bad guys, and that's all I can think of now.

The differences; one was a playboy millionaire and the other a studious poor boy, one ends up fighting a multitude of criminals, one focuses on one kingpin, one depends on his sight, one depends on other his other senses...

 

[voyzovrezon]

I think "Daredevil" is the better of the two. Mainly, because DD contains more of the struggle between good and evil and action whereas Arrow contains too much personal drama for my taste.

 

[Rowsdower!]

There are similarities, but honestly, Arrow doesn't deserve to mentioned in the same sentence as Daredevil. Even Arrow's best episodes in season one and two don't even come close. Comparing Daredevil to Arrow is like comparing The Godfather to Weekend at Bernie's in terms of quality. Better acting, better writing, better direction, better everything.

And I'd be saying that even if Arrow hadn't taken a nosedive in season 3. It continues to circle the bowl in the season 4, yet I keep watching it, I guess because I enjoy torturing myself. I guess I'm just hate-watching it at this point so that I can really lay into any smartass that tries to tell me that Greg Berlanti should be handed the keys to the DC cinematic universe, because apparently that lame-as-f*** Arrow/Flash/Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Black Canary/Diggle in a Welding Mask/Vandal Savage battle last week was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good that people actually hope the Justice League movie turns out like that. Shoot me in the f***ing face.

 

[Hellion]

Any news on DVD/Blu releases?

 

[Slade W]

There are similarities, but honestly, Arrow doesn't deserve to mentioned in the same sentence as Daredevil. Even Arrow's best episodes in season one and two don't even come close. Comparing Daredevil to Arrow is like comparing The Godfather to Weekend at Bernie's in terms of quality. Better acting, better writing, better direction, better everything.

And I'd be saying that even if Arrow hadn't taken a nosedive in season 3. It continues to circle the bowl in the season 4, yet I keep watching it, I guess because I enjoy torturing myself. I guess I'm just hate-watching it at this point so that I can really lay into any smartass that tries to tell me that Greg Berlanti should be handed the keys to the DC cinematic universe, because apparently that lame-as-f*** Arrow/Flash/Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Black Canary/Diggle in a Welding Mask/Vandal Savage battle last week was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good that people actually hope the Justice League movie turns out like that. Shoot me in the f***ing face.

Say what you want about Arrow/Flash and how bad there, but they are still better than your beloved MOS. They have both been received better by fans and critics, and while they are not held in as high esteem as DD, they are still doing very well for themselves and are their networks most watched shows. Early days, but they are still, by far, the best live action adaptions DC has going for it. IF BVS turns out like MOS, then maybe they should consider handing Berlanti the keys to the DC universe.

 

[Silvermoon]

Any news on DVD/Blu releases?

Nothing official has been said. We probably won't hear anything until next year (chances are likely that it'll be released around the time that season 2 hits netflix)

 

[Rowsdower!]

Say what you want about Arrow/Flash and how bad there, but they are still better than your beloved MOS. They have both been received better by fans and critics, and while they are not held in as high esteem as DD, they are still doing very well for themselves and are their networks most watched shows. Early days, but they are still, by far, the best live action adaptions DC has going for it. IF BVS turns out like MOS, then maybe they should consider handing Berlanti the keys to the DC universe.

I guess I should have known that was coming. Yes, I truly hope BvS and Justice League are on par with Arrow--chock full of bad love triangle drama, poorly constructed fight choreography, derivative storytelling and HORRIBLE acting. Oh, and maybe we can get some pleather jackets in there too! If Arrow and even The Flash (which I still like, but it isn't great) are really the "best" DC can do, then maybe they should just throw in the towel and cede the race to Marvel.

Some fans and some critics like your shows, that's true, but it's also true that Arrow's ratings would have ensured its cancellation if it was on a major network. And yeah, its RT score (since I'm sure you're dying to whip that out too) is high, but it also has far fewer reviews than a major motion picture.

So yeah, I'd rather have Berlanti stay away from DC films because my mouth doesn't start watering when someone serves me a turd.

 

[Slade W]

I guess I should have known that was coming. Yes, I truly hope BvS and Justice League are on par with Arrow--chock full of bad love triangle drama, poorly constructed fight choreography, derivative storytelling and HORRIBLE acting. Oh, and maybe we can get some pleather jackets in there too!

Well, personally I hope BVS and Justice League are better than Arrow and Flash (which they should be considering the advantages they have, being big blockbusters and all), but going by the last film MOS, they wont be. Oh, an all those criticisms that you made their are your opinion, but for most people the positive outweighs the bad when it comes to Arrow/Flash which is why both Arrow/Flash forums are mostly full of praise for both shows. In comparison, every MOS thread ends up with most people criticising the movie and a small but loud minority complaining about all the negativity, so much so that a thread was made where only positive comments are allowed to be posted. As many complaints that can be made about Arrow/Flash, even more can be made about MOS and far more will agree with that than disagree.

Some fans and some critics like your shows, that's true, but it's also true that Arrow's ratings would have ensured its cancellation if it was on a major network.

It is not just "some fans and some critics". Arrow and Flash have been received positively by most fans and critics and that can be seen on most sites and forums. They are not held in as high esteem as DD or the best shows on TV, but it is still mostly positive when it comes to them. That is far from the case with MOS. If Arrow and Flash were on a major network they would have more viewers and better resources. They would be even better than they are currently. When resources, limitations and restrictions are taken into account, Arrow and Flash really are wiping the floor with MOS. MOS has much more resources at its disposal and it is still much more divisive amongst people than Arrow and Flash are. Arrow and Flash punch above their weight. It was the opposite with MOS.

And yeah, its RT score (since I'm sure you're dying to whip that out too) is high, but it also has far fewer reviews than a major motion picture.

Go on any forum and site and you will see that people are far more positive about Arrow and Flash than MOS. You wont see any threads being made where you can only say positive things about Arrow and Flash any time soon like you have with MOS. Arrow and Flash are not considered to be as good as DD by most people, but it I still mostly positive with them. It is not like that at all with MOS.

So yeah, I'd rather have Berlanti stay away from DC films because my mouth doesn't start watering when someone serves me a turd.

Well, you love MOS (and it is seen by most people as a poor film) and even consider it to be better than Batman Begins, despite that being something that not many people would agree with. So I am not so sure if what you say is true.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Well, personally I hope BVS and Justice League are better than Arrow and Flash (which they should be considering the advantages they have, being big blockbusters and all), but going by the last film MOS, they wont be. Oh, an all those criticisms that you made their are your opinion, but for most people the positive outweighs the bad when it comes to Arrow/Flash which is why both Arrow/Flash forums are mostly full of praise for both shows. In comparison, every MOS thread ends up with most people criticising the movie and a small but loud minority complaining about all the negativity, so much so that a thread was made where only positive comments are allowed to be posted. As many complaints that can be made about Arrow/Flash, even more can be made about MOS and far more will agree with that than disagree.



It is not just "some fans and some critics". Arrow and Flash have been received positively by most fans and critics and that can be seen on most sites and forums. They are not held in as high esteem as DD or the best shows on TV, but it is still mostly positive when it comes to them. That is far from the case with MOS. If Arrow and Flash were on a major network they would have more viewers and better resources. They would be even better than they are currently. When resources, limitations and restrictions are taken into account, Arrow and Flash really are wiping the floor with MOS. MOS has much more resources at its disposal and it is still much more divisive amongst people than Arrow and Flash are. Arrow and Flash punch above their weight. It was the opposite with MOS.



Go on any forum and site and you will see that people are far more positive about Arrow and Flash than MOS. You wont see any threads being made where you can only say positive things about Arrow and Flash any time soon like you have with MOS. Arrow and Flash are not considered to be as good as DD by most people, but it I still mostly positive with them. It is not like that at all with MOS.


Well, you love MOS (and it is seen by most people as a poor film) and even consider it to be better than Batman Begins, despite that being something that not many people would agree with. So I am not so sure if what you say is true.

Well, I'll admit that I don't frequent any other message boards, so I suppose I'll have to take your word for it that Arrow and Flash are universally praised everywhere on the internet and there is almost nothing but negativity every single place MOS is mentioned. I do periodically drop into the Arrow boards here though and I don't see as much praise as you apparently do. There are plenty of people that gush over the show, true, but I've also seen a lot of negativity. It's probably more positive than negative there overall but I've observed a lot of discontent over the last couple seasons. I don't drop in much anymore though. Conversely, while your perception of the BvS/MOS boards isn't exactly wrong, it's not as negative there as you're making it out to be. Yes, there are plenty of detractors, but it's not 99% negativity with a few of us coming in to say positive things and complain.

 

[Napoleon]

Did this really have to turn into a Marvel vs DC thing?

 

[flickchick85]

Seems more like a DCTV vs. DCEU discussion at the moment. Either way, this was a thread for Daredevil last I checked, so let's get back to that.

 

[Sundancer]

What exactly was Fisk's plan to "help" the city?


He kept talking about making it a better place, but I can't recall how.

 

[cytokine]

What exactly was Fisk's plan to "help" the city?


He kept talking about making it a better place, but I can't recall how.

tbh I don't really get it either.

The best guess I have is that he wanted to gentrify bad place's Kitchen by bringing in fancy buildings and wealthier people. But to do that, he had to completely destroy the city first, by forcing out everyone already living there, setting up disasters like the explosions, and that sort of thing.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

he also wanted control.. so he could constantly shape it in his vision. If everyone in power feared him, he could shape it to be the way he wanted it.

 

[Random490]

What exactly was Fisk's plan to "help" the city?


He kept talking about making it a better place, but I can't recall how.

tbh I don't really get it either.

The best guess I have is that he wanted to gentrify bad place's Kitchen by bringing in fancy buildings and wealthier people. But to do that, he had to completely destroy the city first, by forcing out everyone already living there, setting up disasters like the explosions, and that sort of thing.

he also wanted control.. so he could constantly shape it in his vision. If everyone in power feared him, he could shape it to be the way he wanted it.

The plan was to gain control of criminal territory giving the Russians control of drug distribution(which is supplied by Madame Gao) and human trafficking. Using the profits from these crimes, Wilson bought up buildings and properties all over so they can be renovated or torn down in order to create new homes and business with a higher standard of living. It's called gentrification something that happens a lot in cities(even has in bad place's Kitchen). While the standard of living does increase and crime goes down, low income people and families are forced out of the neighborhood since it's now too expensive to live there. Also since the lower income bracket has a higher level of minorities there also comes a racial component. As a result you have people like Mrs. Cardenas who are pushed out of their homes and neighborhoods having to relocate and rebuild their lives somewhere else.

As I said it's even happened in bad place's Kitchen before. In the 70's and 80's bad place's Kitchen was really rough (so was most of NYC to be fair) but through the 90's and 00's that's changed and the neighborhood isn't as rough as it used to be. That's why they mentioned the attack of NY, to justify the decline of businesses a return of higher crime levels.

So when Fisk says he wants to save the city but "on a scale that matters" he's not just blowing smoke, there is truth to it. The ends justifies the means for him, so any horrible act committed to service this goal he sees is necessary. Similarly Daredevil forgoes due process and uses cruel and unusual punishment to "save the city" as well. The difference is DD has drawn a moral line while Fisk has no moral line. Also DD is more interested in protecting people than saving the "city''.

Hope that cleared things up.

 

[fixxxer]

The plan was to gain control of criminal territory giving the Russians control of drug distribution(which is supplied by Madame Gao) and human trafficking. Using the profits from these crimes, Wilson bought up buildings and properties all over so they can be renovated or torn down in order to create new homes and business with a higher standard of living. It's called gentrification something that happens a lot in cities(even has in bad place's Kitchen). While the standard of living does increase and crime goes down, low income people and families are forced out of the neighborhood since it's now too expensive to live there. Also since the lower income bracket has a higher level of minorities there also comes a racial component. As a result you have people like Mrs. Cardenas who are pushed out of their homes and neighborhoods having to relocate and rebuild their lives somewhere else.

As I said it's even happened in bad place's Kitchen before. In the 70's and 80's bad place's Kitchen was really rough (so was most of NYC to be fair) but through the 90's and 00's that's changed and the neighborhood isn't as rough as it used to be. That's why they mentioned the attack of NY, to justify the decline of businesses a return of higher crime levels.

So when Fisk says he wants to save the city but "on a scale that matters" he's not just blowing smoke, there is truth to it. The ends justifies the means for him, so any horrible act committed to service this goal he sees is necessary. Similarly Daredevil forgoes due process and uses cruel and unusual punishment to "save the city" as well. The difference is DD has drawn a moral line while Fisk has no moral line. Also DD is more interested in protecting people than saving the "city''.

Hope that cleared things up.

Tour de force post! Perfectly said.

 

[aNarcHy2day]

The plan was to gain control of criminal territory giving the Russians control of drug distribution(which is supplied by Madame Gao) and human trafficking. Using the profits from these crimes, Wilson bought up buildings and properties all over so they can be renovated or torn down in order to create new homes and business with a higher standard of living. It's called gentrification something that happens a lot in cities(even has in bad place's Kitchen). While the standard of living does increase and crime goes down, low income people and families are forced out of the neighborhood since it's now too expensive to live there. Also since the lower income bracket has a higher level of minorities there also comes a racial component. As a result you have people like Mrs. Cardenas who are pushed out of their homes and neighborhoods having to relocate and rebuild their lives somewhere else.

As I said it's even happened in bad place's Kitchen before. In the 70's and 80's bad place's Kitchen was really rough (so was most of NYC to be fair) but through the 90's and 00's that's changed and the neighborhood isn't as rough as it used to be. That's why they mentioned the attack of NY, to justify the decline of businesses a return of higher crime levels.

So when Fisk says he wants to save the city but "on a scale that matters" he's not just blowing smoke, there is truth to it. The ends justifies the means for him, so any horrible act committed to service this goal he sees is necessary. Similarly Daredevil forgoes due process and uses cruel and unusual punishment to "save the city" as well. The difference is DD has drawn a moral line while Fisk has no moral line. Also DD is more interested in protecting people than saving the "city''.

Hope that cleared things up.

 

[Sundancer]

Hope that cleared things up.

It definitely helped. Nice!

Maybe you can shed light on how Karen's murder charges got dropped so quickly.

 

[Random490]

It definitely helped. Nice!

Maybe you can shed light on how Karen's murder charges got dropped so quickly.

She was never officially charged to begin with, remember when Nelson and Murdock pointed out that the detectives were forced to release her since she wasn't charged? The police can detain a suspect for only so long before having to official arraign them in court (the part where bail is set, etc). It seemed their original plan was to plant someone to be her lawyer and find out whether she had copies of the report. But Matt and Foggy shows up so they decided to cut their loses by killing her in her cell to prevent her lawyers from finding out more. They had her followed to see if she will lead them to the copies and to kill her when she's alone. While it's not shown, when the information went to the press I'm sure Foggy and Matt would have plenty to prove a conspiracy. Karen's attacker was in killed in jail so it is likely she call the police on him. In any case the detectives were probably told to back off by Fisk. Thus no charges were ever officially filed.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, there was enough evidence to make any murder charge a dicey, ugly affair. Once the files were let loose, there was equally little reason to press murder charges as there would be to send more assassins.

 

[TheVileOne]

The plan was to gain control of criminal territory giving the Russians control of drug distribution(which is supplied by Madame Gao) and human trafficking. Using the profits from these crimes, Wilson bought up buildings and properties all over so they can be renovated or torn down in order to create new homes and business with a higher standard of living. It's called gentrification something that happens a lot in cities(even has in bad place's Kitchen). While the standard of living does increase and crime goes down, low income people and families are forced out of the neighborhood since it's now too expensive to live there. Also since the lower income bracket has a higher level of minorities there also comes a racial component. As a result you have people like Mrs. Cardenas who are pushed out of their homes and neighborhoods having to relocate and rebuild their lives somewhere else.

As I said it's even happened in bad place's Kitchen before. In the 70's and 80's bad place's Kitchen was really rough (so was most of NYC to be fair) but through the 90's and 00's that's changed and the neighborhood isn't as rough as it used to be. That's why they mentioned the attack of NY, to justify the decline of businesses a return of higher crime levels.

So when Fisk says he wants to save the city but "on a scale that matters" he's not just blowing smoke, there is truth to it. The ends justifies the means for him, so any horrible act committed to service this goal he sees is necessary. Similarly Daredevil forgoes due process and uses cruel and unusual punishment to "save the city" as well. The difference is DD has drawn a moral line while Fisk has no moral line. Also DD is more interested in protecting people than saving the "city''.

Hope that cleared things up.

There's also the Japanese component with Nobu's group as well. It seemed they wanted a base of operations set up to freely bring in illegal weapons or human trafficking but possibly involving powered individuals like the "Black Sky" kid.

We can only assume that group could be The Hand, unless they decide to rename them something else for the show.

 

[Random490]

There's also the Japanese component with Nobu's group as well. It seemed they wanted a base of operations set up to freely bring in illegal weapons or human trafficking but possibly involving powered individuals like the "Black Sky" kid.

We can only assume that group could be The Hand, unless they decide to rename them something else for the show.

I doubt they wouldn't be refereed to as The Hand, considering all the blatant hints dropped. They position in the conspiracy is unknown. Probably something along the lines offering to assassinate Fisk's rivals in exchange for a city block. Since Wesley point out they "bring nothing to the table" and Fisk citing them as a "necessary evil"; it seems like the forced their way into the conspiracy. They intimated and made a deal with, Fisk in order to obtain a specific location in NYC. What so important about that block, we'll just have to wait and see.