Daredevil Daredevil: FULL SEASON THREE Discussion Thread (Beware, Spoilers Galore!)

[Erik20]

So I finally just finished the season. I didn't want to binge it cause who knows when (or if) we're getting more.

While I love the black costume, it kind of seems like a step back from season 2 storywise; he needed the extra armor because he was getting hurt all the time. But on the other hand, as a viewer, him wearing no armor makes the fight scenes feel more realistic and brutal... Maybe next season (hopefully) he'll get a new suit. I can't imagine him going back to the old suit again since it has been tainted.

Also, was there a reason for DareDevil not using the billy club or sticks? I didn't really miss it, I think hand to hand combat looks better on screen, (like most of the fight scenes in season 1) but you would think a weapon like that could be pretty useful in a fight...

And I have to mention Kingpin who was awesome and terrifying. I like how they didn't need to constantly emphasize his size or strength to show what a monster he can be, but mostly kept it subtle. (Unlike what most movies would probably do) Bullseye was also great. I thought he was going to be lame, but they proved me wrong.

One of the greatest accomplishments of this show in general is that they made DareDevil "cool." It seems like a lot of people didn't really care for the character in the past, also thanks to that 2003 movie, but now he's almost like (a) Batman.

Anyway, I loved the season, it would be a crime if Netflix cancelled this. It's probably one of the best comic book shows of all time, I think you can even put it up there with the best comic book movies in my opinion.

 

[Yowza]

I just finished Season 3 in 3 days which did not plan to.

This season was very well done. I can tell some adjustments were made as even the non-boss based fight scenes felt a bit more involving somehow (not counting the hallway fights of previous 2 seasons of course). The dialogue for some of the transition scenes isn't sparse and adds layering that also felt more involving as an audience member.

I still think the whole "no-kill" rule Matt keeps saying comes off as slightly ridiculous cause lets face it many of the beat-downs he's given would probably kill someone in real life (yeah, I know it's a gritty comic book show so motorcyclist going down on head in stairwell season 2 just a pow effect). Still there's Nobu moment in Season 1, his interactions with the Punisher and Elektra, not to mention a few moments in Season 3 where he facilitates certain things as happening in a reactionary manner and 1 moment in last episode where he arranges for a certain individual to cause havoc for him. However, this season was so involving I didn't care as much.

The type of show they were trying to make they did well. I think if there is a send-off at some point Netflix should work with Marvel to make a couple movies to release in Theaters. Honestly, if the Netflix/Marvel deal didn't include so much volume I think the 3 seasons of Daredevil as they stand-alone are pretty darn good for the budget they had. They held back on certain story details dragging them out through the season with some of these shows but if they all follow the example of Season 3 that's what is possible.

So yeah, it's a tough call but Daredevil arguably is a more nuanced portrayal. It just needs more time still to show him swinging around with his Billy Clubs. A bit of Daredevil vision thrown in and taken just in context with the Daredevil seasons with some more added story thrown in and Daredevil will rival any superhero depiction out there. I will say that the acting is top-notch in all the Netflix shows (the movies bit cardboard but brought up by of course other aspects of production). Now with Season 3, the shows acting was more complimented by other production elements as well.

 

[Yowza]

Out of everything, my favorite episode was the one where Murdock goes to visit the prison. (Although there were many that came close)

I kind of hoped we hear more about the Albanians after that episode. I suppose The Punisher will take them all out but I can't say that I like the Punisher a whole lot sometimes so kind of feel he'd get what's coming to him sooner or later. Now, perhaps him and Kingpin will have a chance to sort out their differences once and for all. Vanessa better watch out for Frank Castle I suppose now...

 

[markjoedelonge]

Season 3 has topped Season 1 for me. Something I didn't think was possible. I was hooked from the beginning and I have never experienced a TV show season with this much tension. It just didn't let up and I loved it. It fired on all fronts. From the score to the action to the cinematography. And the acting....Charlie Cox deserves an Emmy just for that final confrontation with Kingpin. I legit got goosebumps. What an amazing season.

The only bad part? I want Season 4 NOW.

 

[dmcreif]

 

[DocterStrange]

Vincent as Wilson Fisk was amazing. Pity it only went about Vanessa. I would've liked to see him being what Fisk does best, be a supreme crime boss controlling New York city.
Still, season 3 was the best in my view.

Here's hoping season 4 happens.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am crossing my fingers, toes, eyes, etc. Sending it all the good will so we get a 4th season!

 

[dmcreif]

There's few plot points that I really think should've been done differently and would've probably done a lot of interesting things for Matt's, Karen's, and Foggy's story arcs.

One that I really think needed more exploration pertains to Foggy's storyline. I feel like after the attempt to have Matt drowned, that in episode 5, Fisk should have sent the FBI after Foggy instead of after Matt. I feel like it was kinda pointless to have Fisk ruin Matt's life when Matt has no personal life to ruin, and that there would be more impact if Fisk targeted Foggy, who has everything to lose at this point in time. I mean, honestly, I don't think Foggy's whole “I'm gonna put myself in the open and make myself so visible that Fisk can’t touch me” scheme should've worked out. It wouldn't be all that difficult for Fisk to make Foggy's life absolutely miserable.

I mean, yes, Fisk already had leverage on Foggy by tricking his parents and brother into committing fraud and cooking the butcher shop's books. But there were more buttons to push than just that. Fisk could have easily ruined Foggy's career, gotten him fired from Jeri Hogarth's firm, maybe even disbarred. He's got the FBI wrapped around his fingers; he could have easily gotten Foggy disbarred. In fact, he could have easily gone after Foggy by ruining Marci's career, getting her disbarred alongside Foggy. Marci used to work at Landman & Zack, and I doubt she was in the dark about just what kinds of illegal things Fisk had Landman & Zack's people doing.

I mean, if anything, the writers seemed hesitant to push Foggy to the breaking point as far as they pushed Matt and Karen during the season. I mean, I guess part of that is because he’s not the main character, and part of it might be that amongst the Avocados, they wanted Foggy to be the one (mostly) normal person in the bunch. It's actually kinda funny that Foggy is still an idealist who believes the legal system will win at the end of the day. And as much as I love Foggy, it would've been so easy for Fisk to break him. Especially because Foggy doesn't have Matt's or Karen's self-destructive "I need to bear the weight of the world on my shoulders" traits. It's weird that they didn't have Foggy face threats like him and/or Marci being disbarred, have Foggy face the threat of his family's shop being shut down for bogus "health code violations", and so much more.

bad place, if Fisk went after Foggy, it would've made things interesting for Matt and Karen's stories as well. I mean, this is a Matt who is reluctant to involve Karen or Foggy. If Fisk went after Foggy, Foggy would have no way of contacting Matt. I don't think it would've changed anything about Matt and Karen bringing in Jasper Evans beyond who they're exonerating, and I don't think it would've altered Karen's visit to Fisk, but it would've been a way for Fisk to hurt Matt as well, by forcing him to choose between his friends and his vigilantism.

 

[voyzovrezon]

I'm late to the party, as usual, but I thought season 3 was the best one yet. I found season 2 rather lackluster and was glad to see Elektra and Stick out of the picture. When I get a little time later today, I'm coming back to read the posts and discuss.

 

[voyzovrezon]

I would say I enjoyed this season about as much as season 1. Which means tied for my favorite superhero season ever, not just from Netflix. Any show. Start to finish, I was hooked. I loved season 2, but it was uneven and the Elektra plot was far inferior to the Punisher one, but this season I felt had no weak subplots. Just outstanding.

This show had better continue or I will riot. I want a season 4!!!! Absolutely my favorite show.

Agreed!

 

[voyzovrezon]

I dont get all the hate toward Karen and Foggy. They were the moral compass of the show surrounded in a sea of political corruption. And Foggy knows his best friend well enough to realize that killing Wilson would haunt him and maybe even destroy him.

 

[Erik20]

I dont get all the hate toward Karen and Foggy. They were the moral compass of the show surrounded in a sea of political corruption. And Foggy knows his best friend well enough to realize that killing Wilson would haunt him and maybe even destroy him.

Are they getting hate? I can't see why they would... If anything, Matt was the one who was kind of a jerk to them most of this season. (Stealing the wallet, not letting them know he's still alive, etc.)

Especially Foggy seems like a really good friend, I think most people would've dropped Matt after everything he did

 

[voyzovrezon]

Are they getting hate? I can't see why they would... If anything, Matt was the one who was kind of a jerk to them most of this season. (Stealing the wallet, not letting them know he's still alive, etc.)

Especially Foggy seems like a really good friend, I think most people would've dropped Matt after everything he did

No argument here.

 

[Enriquespy]

Season was awesome, some things to say:

Poor Nadeem, guy just wanted a pool.

Betsy and Gladiator are so cute.

I really liked the Fisk-Vanessa Relationship.

Daredevil was very indirectly murdery, like, telling Nadeem where to shot from the van, and -worse of all- unleashing Poindexter upon the wedding. Those deaths are kinda on him.

The actress playing Sister Maggie is cute, such pretty eyes.

I really enjoyed the effort put unto displaying Poindexter's mental instability, that an his corruption by Fisk was a highlight of the season.

The Jail Scapade was stunning.

 

[TheVileOne]

Season was awesome, some things to say:

Poor Nadeem, guy just wanted a pool.

I blame his son. That kid was a little shirt.

Daredevil was very indirectly murdery, like, telling Nadeem where to shot from the van, and -worse of all- unleashing Poindexter upon the wedding. Those deaths are kinda on him.

I agree. That's why I don't get this hysteria about not killing Fisk. Is killing Fisk really such a terrible thing? Is it really the wrong thing to do? Especially after Matt told an FBI agent where and how to kill such and such persons when they were getting attacked. It's definitely a nitpick, but I honestly don't get the no killing rule when stuff like that happens.

 

[dmcreif]

That's why I don't get this hysteria about not killing Fisk. Is killing Fisk really such a terrible thing? Is it really the wrong thing to do? Especially after Matt told an FBI agent where and how to kill such and such persons when they were getting attacked. It's definitely a nitpick, but I honestly don't get the no killing rule when stuff like that happens.

When it came to the street shootout, Matt was unarmed and had only his cane, and the assassins were the aggressors and were armed with guns. In the fight with Fisk and Dex, Matt was the aggressor. There's also what Karen and Foggy say about knowing that Matt could never come back from killing Fisk. I mean, there's a reason the story has to end with Fisk being spared by Matt, and why he can't be killed. Sure, someone else could kill Fisk, but that would undermine Matt's journey. For instance, Karen killing Fisk could possibly work, but realistically getting her in a place to do that would require some plot contrivance, not to mention that the love interest arc would run the risk of feeling too similar to the stuff with Elektra.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't believe any of that.

 

[Whatupman]

Daredevil was very indirectly murdery, like, telling Nadeem where to shot from the van, and -worse of all- unleashing Poindexter upon the wedding. Those deaths are kinda on him.

I agree. That's why I don't get this hysteria about not killing Fisk. Is killing Fisk really such a terrible thing? Is it really the wrong thing to do? Especially after Matt told an FBI agent where and how to kill such and such persons when they were getting attacked. It's definitely a nitpick, but I honestly don't get the no killing rule when stuff like that happens.

Except Matt didn't tell Nadeem how to kill the attackers, he pointed to where Nadeem could shoot so he would only wound the attackers. That's why we see one of the attackers lying on the ground with a gun shot wound to his leg directly after. And the showrunner has confirmed this. And the thing with Poindexter makes sense from a character and storytelling perspective. Matt is at his lowest and more desperate than ever, so he makes a cold-blooded move.

Matt believes that's it's wrong to kill Fisk because he's a catholic who believes that if he kills, his soul is damned. And as Father Lantom says:
"... when the righteous succumb to sin, it is as harmful as if the public well were poisoned. Because the darkness of such an act ... of taking a life ... will spread to friends, neighbors ... the entire community."

 

[dmcreif]

Except Matt didn't tell Nadeem how to kill the attackers, he pointed to where Nadeem could shoot so he would only wound the attackers. That's why we see one of the attackers lying on the ground with a gun shot wound to his leg directly after. And the showrunner has confirmed this. And the thing with Poindexter makes sense from a character and storytelling perspective. Matt is at his lowest and more desperate than ever, so he makes a cold-blooded move.

Matt believes that's it's wrong to kill Fisk because he's a catholic who believes that if he kills, his soul is damned. And as Father Lantom says:
"... when the righteous succumb to sin, it is as harmful as if the public well were poisoned. Because the darkness of such an act ... of taking a life ... will spread to friends, neighbors ... the entire community."

And let's not forget that Karen said all that stuff in the basement about how her brother's death and Wesley's death took a toll on her psyche.

That said, leg wounds like the ones Matt was directing Nadeem to administer to those gunmen, those could eventually prove fatal given the arteries that run through those areas.

 

[Mike Murdock]

In real life, there's no such thing as shooting to wound. Any shot can potentially kill, which is why those who shoot make their shot is effective. There's also no such thing as just knocking someone out by hitting them on the head. If they're unconscious, they've suffered serious head trauma.

But this is a television show where the rules are quite different. Shooting in self-defense with the license of a TV-inspired wounding shot is not the same thing as killing in cold blood.

 

[TheVileOne]

A gunshot to the leg is potentially fatal. TV has lied to us about flesh wounds and minor gunshot wounds for years.

And yeah, even knocking someone out can cause permanent damage if it doesn't directly kill you.

 

[voyzovrezon]

This is one flaw with Daredevil I had was his stance on not killing. He's a freaking VIGILANTE! Granted, a devoutly religious one, but still...

 

[terry78]

It makes him more of an anti hero as opposed to a hero. Wolverine is the guy in Marvel that guts people with nary a thought. The rest all are conflicted if they do.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Spoons! Long time no see, how ya been?

I'm good dude, how bout you? Reddit kinda stole me away from message boards haha.

Sucks about DD getting cancelled though.

 

[Random490]

Here's hoping season 4 happens.

I am crossing my fingers, toes, eyes, etc. Sending it all the good will so we get a 4th season!

This is quite sad in retrospect

Daredevil was very indirectly murdery, like, telling Nadeem where to shot from the van, and -worse of all- unleashing Poindexter upon the wedding. Those deaths are kinda on him.

There's a difference in self defense and premeditated murder. Nadeem's shooting is an act of survival while killing Fisk is a choice. I also feel his stance had gotten more nuanced since season 2, specially when Elektra almost died because he stopped her from killing. I believe he recognizes it's about what he chooses and he can't expect others to sacrifice their lives to uphold his morals.

With Bullseye Matt had already thrown the non-killing thing out the window until he was actually confronted with the choice at the end of the final brawl. I'm not sure how many innocent people Bullseye actually kill there, I recall Matt walking past unconsciousness but alive FBI guards. And most of the people in the hotel knew and supported Fisk so you can say their not innocent by association. Kind of like the death star debate in Clerks. Plus he was a monster of Fisk's making and his path of destruction is mostly his responsibility as well.

Did Daredevil cross line? Absolutely. But it's still a grey area, when it came to him and a decision that's 100% his he didn't do it.