BEGINS is a very good film. And was in the elite class of comic book movies, among it's peers of greats. That was before TDK firmly snatched an even higher level of class for a comic book movie. So it deserves its praise.
"Begins is a good film" is my praise.
As a bat-fan and a superhero movies fan, I appreciate what it did. The new super-realism, or whatever people want it to be called, is a very good thing and nicely developed. It was what the genre really needed.
But BB had its own pack of flaws that no fan-gasm can blind me of. The action, many dialogues and the one-liners ruined big part of the movie for me. I don't care how many tiny details, secondary characters and such were faithfully portrayed or even included.
Issues with dialogue? I had some, but really it was the "comic bookish" movie quips that are standard in all superhero films, that somehow no matter how sparingly used in comparison to its comic book movie peers, managed to find their way in to Batman Begins.
They might be standard; that doesn't mean it is a good thing. Specially when your offer is super-realism and super-seriousness. TDK is the living proof that you can make it without the clichéd standards.
Sure, it managed to find their way into BB. And gave me the gringes in the process.
But in terms of dialogue, the speeches and idealistic nature made complete sense. You don't go subtle with the dialogue when you're telling a mythic story of how a man turns into a legend, and the ideology that follows that transition. So the dialogue in many instances had to be blunt, and epic. Which they were. And it totally fit the need of the story. Especially given how much ground they had to cover in that movie in order to tell the story they wanted to ... but it's never been as big of a hinderance as some "Goyer Haters" have ever made it out to be.
I'm sorry but TDK had the same "right" to go the comic-booky way and release "epic" repetitive standard cliché speeches and it didn't. Howmany times you have to repeat shallow lines with the word "fear" to make you understand fear is an important topic in the movie? I mean, specially when everything in the movie was screaming that without the need of even mentioning the word once. Take the word "fear" completely out of BB and it is still a movie about fear; just not unecessarily underlined.
How can you hate Goyer? He is the one who gave you Batman Begins in conjunction w/ Nolan, and he's the one who helped outline the major plot points FOR the best comic book movie of all-time.
Who hates Goyer?
And yes, he gave me a good Batman movie that, I know now, could have been TDK-perfect, but it wasn't.
I also blame Nolan for the lousy action in the same movie. But I don't hate him.
And yes, I admit Goyer outlined the plots for TDK. But curiosuly, the script was so much better and Goyer didn't write it. Coincidence?
Hate for him is entirely unjust. Beyond Blade 3, of course. But I think he just directed that one, didn't write the script. But then all is forgiven seeing as how he gave us Blade, one of the other best movies of the genre.
I haven't seen any Blade. Can't talk about them.
BTW, w/o Goyer you would have had a CAPE LESS Dark Knight in Nolan's two Batman movies.
Oh yes. I'm sure nobody else would have told/forced Nolan to include the cape in a Batman movie.
Thank Goyer for fighting for you comic book dorks, and keeping as much from the source material as possible. Nolan brought him on for that very reason. Nolan wanted to make the material more sophisticated, he was almost emberassed by it's comic book roots. And you can even tell he is in various parts in his first outing with Batman Begins where he visibly didn't feel comfortable with the material. Nolan needed someone who knew the comic world to keep him grounded with respect for it, and not stray too much.
I applaud that contribution. "Goyer's contributions
on the script" was the only thing I say I ahted. That, semantically, doesn't include anything else.
Now, one can dream about someone who brings all that comic book knowledge but write god dialogues at the same time.
BTW how can you hate Goyer's contributions to the script? When you're only pointing out the negatives. Or do you know how much he accounted for in the movie in comparison to Nolan?
Logic. The next Batman movie Nolan co-wrote and directed without Goyer writing the dialogues had much better dialogues. Do the maths.
I'm sure Goyer didn't write out the escape from Arkham sequence, or how he amassed his toys, or the playful banter between a coy Bruce Wayne and a interested Lucious Fox, or the ultimate SEGWAY ending leading to an even better sequel?
As I say, his ideas on the story are better than his dialogues. The escape of Arkham was great until the "back up" repetitons started as some kind of witty device; which wasn't in the end. Or worse, the "Excuse me" of Batman walking through that cell.
Now lines like "I don't have the luxury of friends" or "And you'll never have to" are just perfect.
Again, I said "some of Goyer's dialogues."
Finally, "the ultimate segway ending leading to a better sequel"... sure, Goyer wroite it. but don't you think the merits of the sequel reside in those who actually made it, not who wrote the last scene of the previous movie?
Yeah, I'm sure Goyer contributed nothing but the few minor issues that were present in the critically acclaimed Batman Begins.
I wouldn't call them "few minor issues" to start with. Without them the movie would have been so much better. Now I'm glad it was "critically aclaimed" but the day I heard and took seriously what a critic said went by years and years ago.
You're right.
El.
