DC's Legends of Tomorrow Season 2 Episode 11: "Turncoat"

Discussion in 'DC's Legends of Tomorrow' started by herolee10, Feb 1, 2017.

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  1. signalman Registered

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    Wish we could have seen tiny Atom in action more, doing all kinds of stuff.
    But they have a tiny budget. :(

    Vixen hopped into the sack quickly, while still mourning Rex.
    Guess sex is a cure all. :)
     
  2. KnightErrant Registered

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    Ahh,I must've missed that piece but do recall the Rip shooting George in the tent piece.

    Thanks! :woot:
     
  3. FeedOnATreeFrog (A Metal Gear reference)

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    Great episode, especially that ending.
     
  4. Gaultheria Registered

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    I like to think that the Legion restored his original personality. He said something last season about how "Rip Hunter" wasn't his original identity, and I got the impression that he'd been given the Chronos treatment. (Maybe that's how the Time Masters got all their agents.)
     
  5. BlueLanternKal Super-Lex

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    Or maybe "evil" is a matter of perspective. Hear me out...

    At the end of Flashpoint Thomas Wayne puts a bullet in Zoom's brain. The Flash is obviously horrified, but Thomas tells him that none of it will matter since all of it will change once Barry restores the timeline.

    Maybe that's Rip's line of thought here. All the horrible **** that he does to get the pieces of the Spear of Destiny will be justified because with the Spear he can repair the timeline, bring his friends back to life, and bring his wife and son back to life.

    Rip's being a cold ass pragmatist here and is looking at the big picture while the Legends are fumbling to stop him.

    Rip's playing both The Legion of Doom as a means to an end and the Legends by not telling them his plan so that the Legion believes he went full bad guy.
     
  6. zenith16 Registered

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    so I just saw this epidsode thiss weekend as Iwasn't able to do so during theweek day thank goodness they do it on the much music channel.


    now to get around to answering yes the show has lot of questionable thing with the writing but the characters are enjoy able for now but I'm still onthe fence. that I do have to correct ya on some things. these guys aren't ever supposed to be soldiers.

    the time master are more historians and time cops

    if this was a war I'm they be screwing up the time line even more so then they are cause wars are just plain mess no matter what and these guys are train to work as group or know the detail of how fix thing and solider in war rarely fix much sadly.

    rip gathered them in miss amtch effort to stop a despost. I've said this before he has time machine and in the latter parts of season one he show to have a hiding place for that team he put to gether under the time master nose. or so he thought.

    the thing is the thought never occurred to him to have at leat have year of train together inthat hiding spot near that orphanage where he grew up. that was his mistake cause he was always puppet of the time masters.

    the show had it self inthe intro they aren't heroes they repeat this often and inthis case it was mick being the narrator . and he even said they are screw up the time line them selve's further. be side the other saying they misfits calling them selves the legends.
    and man do thay show it often.

    thw whole thing with steel and vixen have sex after she was supposedly saving him from hypothermia showed this.

    theother was when sara came to convince jacks not to kill their friend cause he was being man manipulated. and I've seen others online complain they could just simply shot rip inthe leg and put him inthe holding cell in the ship . rips not super strong and has no powers. he may be rothless now but that's it.

    something he should have been when he was fighting savage's people . he lost his family he had nothing to loose so his personality should have been that way from the jump in season 1.

    but the writers.

    the point it the only people doing what they were supposed to do inthis episode were Mick the atom and stein. the other really screwed up big time with ether having SEX AT THE WORST TIME . OR NOT HAVE THE BrAINS TO CAPTURE SOME THAT WAS EASY TO CATCH PUT IN THE HOLDING WHICH WAS SEASON ONES PROBLEM WITH DOING THE SAME TO SAVAGE.

    that said it's hard for to say your way off the show still has questionable chose from the writer making these characters do nonsensical chose's


    the only saving grace is the actors . but when that it's only saving there's problem. and I've always said the writing has to complement the actors other in most and other case if it was any other channel /network audience this show would be dead.

    just due to the writers.

    anyways insome it's interesting this show does take it self too seriously but in others..... see it's hard for me to say. That's why I'm on the fence.
    if you feel like dropping thw show do so. I'm on the fense right now but if and when I do make up my mind I might drop it as well. I think the only reason i'm is due to certain characters. mick's one atoms one fire storms both stein and jack are nother . I and usually like victor garbers work.

    but staying cause you like the actors and actress isn't enough. so I'm still dancing. it'sweird I usually make up mind faster then this but i some I have this weird thing of late that some gonna use guilt trip talk on me. and should let that bother me.


    that's assuming Rips still in the right presence of mind. which he's not he's still a puppet . one that's seem to have more free will but still one .

    the only that's cool about him him now is that he's acting the way he should have been from the start in season right now as villain. which is sad. he already had nothing more to lose. and should have like this to savage. but the writer never came up with this . but yet they will do this with him as villain. when there heroes that and have done that to only villain. I'd like rip to keep this personality on on the villains when and if they ever get him back to the side of good .

    the only thing he was right about was his old self was in deed a puppet and sadly he was the worst planner in existence as I just explained to the poster above. As I was having trouble defending the show.

    i don't hate the show but I have issues with it. the only saving grace are the actors executions .


    rip still not inthe right head space. this isn't him at the helm so let not pretend it is. he's not doing the same thing Thomas Wayne did in flash point. who knew the time line of flash point where he;s batman wasn't supposed to happen.
     
  7. Dark Raven It's not about what you deserve...

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    Yeah. I find the actress very attractive. There's something very beguiling about her. Definitely better than the previous Vixen.
     
  8. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    I'll be disappointed if we dont get both Vixens interacting together at least once.
     
  9. zenith16 Registered

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    We'll see. but I won't be surprised if it doesn't happen also.
     
    #34 zenith16, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  10. Dark Raven It's not about what you deserve...

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    I wonder if they would decide to keep Rip evil or will they restore him. They might want to add another member to the Legion of Doom.

    Also, how many women would actually offer skin-to-skin contact in that kind of situation? I bet some would rather let the other person die of hyperthermia than engage in that.
     
  11. BlueLanternKal Super-Lex

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    The JSA is a paramilitary arm of the US government. Vixen is a soldier first, woman second, as it should be in that field.
     
  12. Brawl Registered

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    Well this group came together to battle Savage and save earth from an apocalyptic future. I considered them more soldiers waging a crusade against evil than cops on a beat giving out violations of legal ordinances. I don't consider them anything like Time Masters as the time masters tried to capture them.

    I've read a bunch of survival manuals while in the military and watched Bear Grylls do his survival bit and in no manual or does Bear ever say " Well I'm pretty much bone cold so I guess I gotta get me some sex or I'll die" I mean they were chill as hell they only needed a Barry White mix tape and a bottle of cab and it was goodnight Irene. NO ONE THINKS LIKE THAT! lol If I'm in the middle of a jump into the past behind enemy lines, I don't care if Sofia Vergara (Scratch that, she might be the one exception lol) hottest chick i can think of is putting the moves I ain't doing that long romantic mood lighting cuddling romance. it might go down quickly like barn yard animal and 5 minutes later we back out the tent looking for a buddies but definitely not the hallmark mini movie they did lol.
     
  13. zenith16 Registered

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    hmm it seem's there was misinterpretation. but it didn't help that i was partially asleep and also conflicted. Cause as said I'm on the fence with this show and rightly so.



    no rip put them together cause he wanted both vengeance and to stop him from killing his family and he tried doing this on his own many times and failed miserably cause he was programed to and trained to be incompetent.

    and as said up top if he were smart when he put that group together he should have had them train in that secret hiding spot of his near that orphanage he grew up at. but he didn't .
    And sadly in that it's you projecting them to be soldiers. there wasn't crusade. it was all a lie as they found out as I said up top just now Rip wanted both vengeance and to stop vandal from killing his family using time ravel before they were killed to stop vandal. he didn't care that much farther and took people that he thought weren't important to time or history. but this was all stuff programed into him by the time masters by order of savage .


    no their not soliders he put them together, only after multiple personal failures on his own and the fact that the time masters wouldn't send Rip back up cause they were working together and for vandal savage. betraying he thought they trained him self to do which preserve and keep the order of time/ history.

    So in that he though he was going rogue, when the time masters wouldn't hear him out. which was weird it never occurred to him what they were being so obstinate. and no military you want place in should be as disorganized as this crew on Rip's ship.

    the only thing they have is a ship and the fact that the people he gathered there are it's crew . However that's as far as it goes. they're no freaking chain of command and as I said he didn't put them through trainning to work well together as group .

    which is a major fail for military. or police force or agency.

    it's as mick and what the others have said in the narration of the show it's self . they are misfits and they are at times making things worse for time and history as whole with their actions. when the mission which they said since session 1 after cold died was they'd do what the time masters didn't. preserve time& history and try and prevent these time aberrations. I'm sorry that is being time cop



    Rip's not a militarty man and if he was he brought shame to them, cause of many times he could have had vandal ended by shooting to the sun via missile which we know that ship of his is capable of space travel since last season.

    but he kept making serious tactical blunders when vandal was easy to capture & do so. like that boiler room when told kendra to leave . so he have stupid one on ones . He did this repeatedly.


    as said up top it's same mistake sara had jackson make when rip was infront of them with that part of spear. jackson had a gun they didn't have to kill Rip. they just had to shoot him in tha leg and take him to med bay and then the holding cell on the ship. which they have .

    but they didn't cause , they like him are inept it seems.

    Again they don't have chain of command, which should have been done last season by rip him self and the lot of the make very costly mistakes which military wouldn't have on their unite. Or any organization for that fact .








    [/QUOTE]
    I've read a bunch of survival manuals while in the military and watched Bear Grylls do his survival bit and in no manual or does Bear ever say " Well I'm pretty much bone cold so I guess I gotta get me some sex or I'll die" I mean they were chill as hell they only needed a Barry White mix tape and a bottle of cab and it was goodnight Irene. NO ONE THINKS LIKE THAT! lol If I'm in the middle of a jump into the past behind enemy lines, I don't care if Sofia Vergara (Scratch that, she might be the one exception lol) hottest chick i can think of is putting the moves I ain't doing that long romantic mood lighting cuddling romance. it might go down quickly like barn yard animal and 5 minutes later we back out the tent looking for a buddies but definitely not the hallmark mini movie they did lol.[/QUOTE]

    this the major part which I said got misinterpreted. the point was to stop the hypothermia . sadly the writers did what's done on north American day time soaps. which what's called trash tv to prime time audiences . cause the nonsensical nature and reason for that action both vixen and nathen had sex when their friend and team mate and some important to history were danger.

    she was in the military and doing a version of spy work as well . and yet she picked up the legends bad habits. cause the writers want her to suddenly be unprofessional

    there's a difference between loosing up and what the writers had her do . they are just lucky Mick held things down. in reality that could cost mick and Gorge Washington their live and there weould be not north america.




    she wasn't supposed have sex with nathan, when her fellow team mate and president Washington were in danger. but the writers turned into that . which I made clear below

    and this is a correction what I was trying to say in my last post to you. cause as said today saldy I was half asleep when posted to over the weekend but I was trying make point
    but as I said the becoming slimmer with me.
     
    #38 zenith16, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  14. Richard Crofton Registered

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    So Rip is able to pull open the door to the Wave Rider, a machine that can be seal-tight in outer space, using two Redcoats pulling rope. Then aboard the Wave Rider, Jacks tricks the two Redcoats, takes one of their machine guns, then somehow doesn't have it when up against Rip. Then, when he's behind Rip, instead of knocking him out like he did the other two Redcoats, he lures him by saying "getting colder" then runs for his life. Then sits there after he thinks Sara's dead and wallows in pity while Rip freely takes the last of the Spear of Destiny. Finally chases him down outside...has a chance to stop him from taking the spear...lets him go. I know they don't want to kill Rip, but shoot him in the leg or something. Or at least try to wrestle him to the ground and get the spear back. But they just let him go because it's Christmas.

    Oh and while on a mission to save Washington, Vixen and Steel take a little break and hook up in a conveniently placed tent. Right, because Steel's clothes are wet and they need time to dry off, so what else is there to do? I don't know, maybe if this were a little more realistic, Vixen should leave Steel in the tent to keep warm while his clothes dry, and she uses her animal powers to go save Washington herself.

    And Atom: what's the point of him running around the ship stuck in mini-mode being chased by a rat half of the show? How did he get all alone by himself anyway? If the power could've been turned on by just the flick of a switch, why doesn't Stein just go do it when the power was first knocked out...BEFORE Rip breaks in with the magic anti-spacecraft rope from 1776?

    I've got to agree with Rory at the beginning of the show when he said "Who writes this crap?" The logic and decision making skills of the characters of this show are more unbelievable than a children's cartoon. It's like when Swiper comes to steal from Dora and they just stand there and shout "Swiper no swiping" while he steals the item anyway and they just watch him throw whatever item into the woods, laughs and runs away, and the whole time Dora just stands there. This episode of L.O.T. made me feel like that. Pitiful. Stupid. Just awful writing. At this point, the only reason why I'm continuing to endure wasting an hour per week of my life on this show is to keep up with the info that crosses over from Arrow and Flash. Otherwise I wouldn't waste another second on this garbage. It irritates me to no end that someone obviously with little talent is making more money as an episode writer than most people who could do his job much better than he.
     
  15. zenith16 Registered

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    one of the show runners that over see's arrow does the same with this show . Just keep that in mind and I dropped that show for the same reasons you want to drop this one.

    The only saving grace are the actors. but I might let this show go, after this season ends. these shows are supposed have writers that complement the actors . but it's the actors carrying the show. and it's not enough. when you have the writing being poor. so...

    even when push it as satire to make up for their short coming on the writers side.
     
    #40 zenith16, Feb 15, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  16. Mask&Cape Registered

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    It isn't only the writing. Zano and Sellers are just terrible. Nate's constant prattling is insanely annoying and Vixen serves no purpose on the show. Garber, Loitz, Drameh and Purcell have the same writers and do a fine job every episode even when the story makes no sense. I can't point to any bad dialogue they've been given but if they have they clearly have the chops to do the best with it.

    That said, the writers and producers clearly don't really care about Nate and Vixen or else they'd put more effort into it.

    What exactly is the point of Nate? Gideon already knows everything about history.

    Annoying verbal waffle is already covered by Palmer.

    This episode was only saved by Mick and Washington's subplot - nothing else made sense. The fate of America and a comrade hang in the balance so two "heroes" have sex? And why was Jax wasting time running from Evil Rip when could just threaten him with the machine gun? And why did Sarah not bring some kind of weapon with her to try capture Rip at the end - as is mention in the final scene she is good with knives - if she was well enough to catch up with Jax then she is well enough to hit Rip in the leg?

    I really hate being negative but I have to rant because I really dislike Nate and I need to vent so he doesn't put me off the show.:cwink:

    And the writers really can't do good time travel. The team would be much better had they become a modern day JSA.
     
  17. zenith16 Registered

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    mick 's actor Purcell and victor garber are long time actors and have more pull in that if the script's are bad they are allowed to ad live or have say in what the character would say or like the actor that play Malcolm Merlin in arrow which writers do ask for input of the latter actor

    oh yeah that's ether obvious or they are in the they don't know what do do again sadly

    nate's supposed to be a history investigator and from what I found out from real life news out lets like both abc news state side and ctv where I'm at this is a real thing in was in one of Jeanne Moos reports
    do you see me arguing that? most of the web is wondering why they did what rip did all through season one with savage when they had the chance to take him prisoner and try to restore him to normal they may not know how to fix rip. but they had the chance to capture him 7 figure it out and there wasn't an excuse not to do .

    Cause that piece of the spear sure as hell doesn't have a tracking device.


    I'm gonna leave that to you just being funny . look there are actors that do very well with good scripts and they will knock out of the park if they have that. and there others that ad live if the script bad but the only ones that are allowed to do the ad-living are those that have been seen like acting vets like Garber the actor that plays mick and Malcolm cause they were in number of hit shows.

    zano was in few but they are still small compared to those three and he doesn't have enough pull (yet ) to tell the writers that he want his character to be better then this. So he's stuck with what I'm I supposed do here and mwhat's my motivation and he has to fallow the script the writers make or they will get mad they gave him work . he sadly has to do what they say.


    like my sister said and my buddies said sometime actor are just actor and not every has what you think they should have. Zano isn't inthe position "yet" do to do what those other three can do or just walk. the man need s the work. other wise he most likely should walk but if he does cause of the place he's at he might not get better. and he's trying to pull out of his former role of female lead actress male eye candy .
    I won't argue on the time travel but seeing all this I don't think any writing team working under Guggenheim should be allowed anything JSA or justice League or outsiders & Titans, or bird of prey where tv involved.

    I don't want to see Marc Guggenheim's name in the list show runners in any of those.
     
    #42 zenith16, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  18. Mask&Cape Registered

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    Are you just assuming this or has this from those involved in the show? It would explain a lot, but not why it hasn't caused the writers to make improvements all around.

    It is the same with Iris on The Flash. She just "the girlfriend" and nothing else. They haven't given any time to her as a reporter or a character of consequence other than to be "a girlfriend". She doesn't even contribute to Team Flash in any way.

    Yes, I know he is a historian and that historians are an actual thing. I mean he serves no purpose to the show. Gideon already knows Earth history and the team hasn't actually had to deal with a situation that requires in depth knowledge of history even without Gideon.

    I don't follow - what "arguing"? I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. I was simply saying that it isn't all on the writer's and having no input on dialogue is all well and good but Zano and Sellers could put some effort in.


    I really did need to vent my annoyance - no else I know watches the show so I can't vent in the real world - and although Nate is highly annoying I won't actually quit on the show because of him - though I do hope that next season he doesn't return.

    Like I said, I'm not putting it all on him.

    They already have the JSA. Legends could easily return to 2017 and establish a new Justice Society. The time travel stories themselves are not very interesting because no matter happens, it all just works out the way it is supposed to every week. Yes, Oliver and Barry usually beat the weekly villain and always defeat the season Big Bad, but there is consequences for the Arrowverse. By it very nature, the Legends adventures cannot have consequences like that.
     
  19. zenith16 Registered

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    i got this from when they said inthere when they talked to barrow man who play's malcom Merlin when they asked about input from about his character in arrow being oliver's dad in the live action and he said know cause he got his own husband involved the they told the writer that would be a terrible idea. and it was so they made barrowman's Malcolm Merlin thea's biological dad instead .

    and from what I know form last season victor garber and other on the legends show gave voice to the writers that they were happy with how season one went or started out and the writers team for the show of legends listened or so we the audience .
     
  20. Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    I thought this episode was ok. I was really thinking Jax was gonna at least take the shot.
     
  21. Mask&Cape Registered

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    Yes but who are "they" and what is the source that says Garber and company have input. I'm curious as to whether it is heresay or from the actors/producers themselves.

    Nate hasn't done any investigation that couldn't have been done by Gideon or any of the others flicking through a book. The events they visit are not very complex.

    And Gideon doesn't have to appear in hologram form. The actress is already in the main cast and I'd imagine that voice only is significantly less cost than an actor in the flesh.

    I can't follow what you are saying at the start of this section. The writers don't "what" about working with Guggenheim?

    And it has nothing to do with making detective or spy work more realistic (if that is what you meant) - it is a fantasy show. If they are going to have a historian in the crew, then give the stories a reason to have him.

    Yes, I understand that the new guy has to do as his told, but he can give it some life and effort.

    I'm not upset, but he is incredibly annoying. I simply had to vent after this episode. ;)

    Zano and Sellers can still try better - it isn't all the script.

    I don't follow the Guggenheim hate. Isn't Berlanti the man in charge? And what about the shows is he screwing up?
     

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