The Dark Knight Definitive Joker

[Keyser Sushi]

Tammy Faye Baker?

 

[Rynan]

depressed? he shows up at commissioner gordons door, shoots his daughter in front of him (paralyzing her), kidnaps them both, films himself sexually torturing gordons daughter, then strips gordon naked and sends him trhough a f**ked up gothic funhouse breaking the mans mind forcing him to near insanity.

It sounds like he was manic depressive there.

He does spend a whole lot of time in the "Oh woe is me" mode, I believe.

Also, your mistaken. He didn't rape her.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

depressed? he shows up at commissioner gordons door, shoots his daughter in front of him (paralyzing her), kidnaps them both, films himself sexually torturing gordons daughter, then strips gordon naked and sends him trhough a f**ked up gothic funhouse breaking the mans mind forcing him to near insanity.

Sexually torturing her?

You mean rape...?

It sounds like he was manic depressive there.

He does spend a whole lot of time in the "Oh woe is me" mode, I believe.

Also, your mistaken. He didn't rape her.

He does spen alot of time feeling down, then rising back up, then feeling down again, and then upbeat again. Dude acted depressed to me. Especially looking back at his "past" or so he thinks, I guess.

 

[Crooklyn]

The rape part wasn't explicitly shown, but it was implied. Knowing Moore though, I'm sure as hell Joker didn't just stand and take pics of Babs naked.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, Joker's an odd dude. He'll get close, and just back off stuff when he feels like it.

I think it really is shown that she was violated....I mean, getting your picture taken like the way she did, it makes sense. But, I didn't see any implication of rape.

For what it's worth, it's been a topic of debate. On the DC Comics forums, some people say Joker raped Jason Todd. I have no idea where that **** came from, but I've heard it before.

 

[jpmuftak]

I really liked what they did with the Joker in "Batman: Dead End".
(With a better actor)

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Didn't he just have like...6 seconds total in that thing though?

 

[Rynan]

Sexually torturing her?

You mean rape...?

The Joker does not rape. Period.

He does spen alot of time feeling down, then rising back up, then feeling down again, and then upbeat again. Dude acted depressed to me. Especially looking back at his "past" or so he thinks, I guess.

Sounds to me like manic depression A.K.A. Bipolar Disorder. This is weird, because I don't think there's much evidence of him having it. He's usually sinister and sadistic all the time, not going into extreme mood swings and weeping like a baby.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I r

The rape part wasn't explicitly shown, but it was implied. Knowing Moore though, I'm sure as hell Joker didn't just stand and take pics of Babs naked.

I really hate talking about this... the Barbara Gordon Batgirl was a character I always liked. A lot. When they did that to her...

And then at the end, Batman just shares a laugh with the guy and hauls him off quietly? Bullcrap. After a stunt like that, I want Joker beaten to within an inch of his life, teeth missing, one eye swollen shut, a couple ribs broken, jaw dislocated, blood all over his face where it's run out of his nose, hanging by his feet at the delivery area at Arkham Asylum.

And that's just becuase Batman showed restraint. Because really, if I was Batman, and Joker had done that to Barbara, and Jim, on my watch... I'd have beaten the Joker to death. And I'd have made sure it took a really long time. And then I'd have thrown him in the middle of the city so people could spit on him if they wanted to.

But... I don't like when dudes fark with my peeps. And really, last I heard, Batman doesn't either. Unless you ask Alan Moore, apparently.

 

[Crooklyn]

The Joker does not rape. Period.

Are you his lawyer? Joker doesn't seem like a guy that would have any moral lines.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I really liked what they did with the Joker in "Batman: Dead End".
(With a better actor)

That looks horrible.

 

[starfighter]

Are you his lawyer? Joker doesn't seem like a guy that would have any moral lines.

I think what he's trying to say is that the Joker doesn't have interest in rape. It just wouldn't fit into his agenda.

 

[Digital_Ashes]

Jack Nicholson plays a better Joker in The Departed than he ever did in the original batman film.

Here's something Nicholson does in The Departed that sold it for me.

Spoiler

Him and his right hand man are standing on a beach, with two woman blind folded on their knees, with their backs to them. Nicholson holds out a gun, says something really quickly and shoots one in the back of the head. He then shoots the other one, and she falls oddly, slumping over instead of falling straight. This is what Nicholson saids,

"Huh...she fell funny. [giggles.]"

Not to mention, he beats a man's broken arm with his own shoe, he comes out of a back room covered in blood, telling one of his henchmen, "to get a mop." He's the ultimate evil, and he's hilarious in the film, but it makes you hate him so much more.

 

[Rynan]

Are you his lawyer? Joker doesn't seem like a guy that would have any moral lines.

I believe sexual violation is an indication of poor writing, seeing as the writer cannot incite our rage without relying on shock gimmicks like rape, an atrocity worse than murder.

And as such, I demand evidence to support you idea. Until I have it, The Joker still doesn't rape.

 

[Rynan]

I think what he's trying to say is that the Joker doesn't have interest in rape. It just wouldn't fit into his agenda.

Exactly.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Sounds to me like manic depression A.K.A. Bipolar Disorder. This is weird, because I don't think there's much evidence of him having it. He's usually sinister and sadistic all the time, not going into extreme mood swings and weeping like a baby.

Yeah, exactly.

He seemed to really have alot of downer moments, which is odd b/c I never really him do that, unless Batman's just kicked his ass or something. But, I think it was part of how the Joker kinda took himself past him limits, I guess.

But, I think if we get that exact Joker....some people might tag him with the "Emo" label.

And then at the end, Batman just shares a laugh with the guy and hauls him off quietly? Bullcrap. After a stunt like that, I want Joker beaten to within an inch of his life, teeth missing, one eye swollen shut, a couple ribs broken, jaw dislocated, blood all over his face where it's run out of his nose, hanging by his feet at the delivery area at Arkham Asylum.

Yeah, first few times I read the book....that did bother me. Still does, actually.

Something along the lines of the beating he gave the Joker in HUSH is kinda what I expected. Really, in HUSH.....he kinda let that **** out too, about what happened to Babs.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Jack Nicholson plays a better Joker in The Departed than he ever did in the original batman film.

Here's something Nicholson does in The Departed that sold it for me.

Spoiler

Him and his right hand man are standing on a beach, with two woman blind folded on their knees, with their backs to them. Nicholson holds out a gun, says something really quickly and shoots one in the back of the head. He then shoots the other one, and she falls oddly, slumping over instead of falling straight. This is what Nicholson saids,

"Huh...she fell funny. [giggles.]"

Not to mention, he beats a man's broken arm with his own shoe, he comes out of a back room covered in blood, telling one of his henchmen, "to get a mop." He's the ultimate evil, and he's hilarious in the film, but it makes you hate him so much more.

You know... this comment is in the wrong thread... but you make a hell of a point. That is very Jokerish.

 

[Crooklyn]

I believe sexual violation is an indication of poor writing, seeing as the writer cannot incite our rage without relying on shock gimmicks like rape, an atrocity worse than murder.

That really depends on the context. Yes, sometimes it is used for shock value, but that's up to the writer to put some value to it.

And as such, I demand evidence to support you idea. Until I have it, The Joker still doesn't rape.

From all the stories I've seen of Joker, he's not the type to hold back. So I'm not saying that he DOES rape, but I'm not ruling the fact out that he WOULD.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I believe sexual violation is an indication of poor writing, seeing as the writer cannot incite our rage without relying on shock gimmicks like rape, an atrocity worse than murder.

I dunno. Sometimes, if done right....it can serve the purpose of a story. Kinda like Sue Dibny and how it forced some of the JLA team to do what they did.

And as such, I demand evidence to support you idea. Until I have it, The Joker still doesn't rape.

I don't really think there's any.

If there was any, it would have been when he was unbuttoning her dress...but once we saw the pictures, I think we understood what he had done.

I don't remember Bullock mentioning rape either to Batman. He mentioned the picture taking though.

 

[Rynan]

From all the stories I've seen of Joker, he's not the type to hold back. So I'm not saying that he DOES rape, but I'm not ruling the fact out that he WOULD.

We'll, I say that he won't. It's something a brute would do. The Joker is a character obsessed with his superiorty to the common criminal. Sure, The Joker may kill an office full of people, but he wouldn't stoop so low as to steal their kid's college fund or rape their daughters. And it's beneath him. The Joker isn't some desperate low-life thug, he's a deadly criminal mastermind.

 

[Crooklyn]

We'll, I say that he won't. It's something a brute would do. The Joker is a character obsessed with his superiorty to the common criminal.

Rape can be taken in 2 ways. One, as a low-life act, and the other, an act that not many people would dare to commit. So who knows what Joker thinks about it. He can interpret it as something "ballsy", because not even the avg. criminal would think about it.

And it's beneath him. The Joker isn't some desperate low-life thug, he's a deadly criminal mastermind.

He's also clearly an individual who just does not give a f**k. Take that for what you will.

 

[Motown Marvel]

And then at the end, Batman just shares a laugh with the guy and hauls him off quietly? Bullcrap. After a stunt like that, I want Joker beaten to within an inch of his life, teeth missing, one eye swollen shut, a couple ribs broken, jaw dislocated, blood all over his face where it's run out of his nose, hanging by his feet at the delivery area at Arkham Asylum.

you say this because you missed the subtext of the story...the deconstruction of the batman/joker relationship.

I believe sexual violation is an indication of poor writing, seeing as the writer cannot incite our rage without relying on shock gimmicks like rape, an atrocity worse than murder.

are you implying that alan moore is a poor writer? have you ever read an alan moore book?

And as such, I demand evidence to support you idea. Until I have it, The Joker still doesn't rape.

why wouldnt the joker rape someone? the dude is f**king wacko in the head! he'd do just about anything if he could find some perverse humor behind it. besides, he does all this to f**k with gordons sanity. when taking the photos he knew he was gonna be showing them to gordon. he'd have no problem sexually assaulting barbara because of this....not necessarily to get pleasure out of the act of rape itself, but to get pleasure out of completely destroying gordon's mind. look at it from the jokers perspective: he could f**k with gordon by showing him the nudie pics that he took of his daughter....or he could f**k with gordon by showing him the pics of him sexually assaulting his daughter. which would screw with gordon more?

im not saying that he defenitely did sexually assault her. but to say with such certaintity that he didnt, is ignorant. you demand proof that he would rape someone....well i'd like you to show me proof that he wouldnt.

Sounds to me like manic depression A.K.A. Bipolar Disorder. This is weird, because I don't think there's much evidence of him having it. He's usually sinister and sadistic all the time, not going into extreme mood swings and weeping like a baby.

most sociopathic serial killers who are labeled insane ARE bi-polar.

and just because the joker is wacko doesnt mean he's void of emotion.

and as far as i remember, theres only one real moment when the joker has a "downer" moment in the killing joke....and thats when he doesnt understand why batman cant see that the whole world is a joke. he's sad because batman doesnt get the joke! all the other downer moments he has are pre-joker...when he was a different person.

plus, another reason why you probably dont see joker too emotional in comics is because rarely would it serve te story. in this book, the small moment or two when this happens DOES serve the story.

 

[Rynan]

Okay, I'm not reading that. Here's some shortening, I suggest you use it in your future works.

 

[Black Mamba]

Bob Kane's Joker, with the heavy influence from "Man Who Laughs". His Joker is the creepiest looking Joker, because of the eyes and permanent grin. Freaky as all get out.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

you say this because you missed the subtext of the story...the deconstruction of the batman/joker relationship.

I didn't miss the subtext, because I have never read "The Killing Joke." It's not that I don't want to, I just... haven't ever gotten around to it.

But my point remains. If I was Batman, and Joker did what he did... I would have killed him. I'd have regretted it afterward, but I'd have killed him.