Diamond Sales Estimate for December 2010

Tron Bonne

All Ass, No Sass
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
33,289
Reaction score
1
Points
31
I know it's probably not worth posting since these threads rarely get much traffic, but I thought this month's was worth posting:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/diamond-december-2010-sales-charts-1101-7.html

It's the first time in a long time that DC has managed to beat out Marvel for dollar share (Of course Marvel creamed them with unit shares, but that's too be expected with the way Marvel floods the market). It's not much, not even 1%, but still something that's pretty rare to see.

EDIT: Oh, and I guess one thing that also makes it fairly big is that just 2-3 months ago, Marvel was up on DC a good 6-7% in this area.
 
Last edited:
I'm nor liking the format Newsarama used. I hope a better list pops up soon so I can see the percentage drop off. Some of the things that jump out at me are of course DC owning the top 10 (which has been slowing building up to that the past few months) but also:

New Avengers outselling Avengers which makes sense since it has been the better book.

Secret Avengers continues to fade bad.

Uncanny X-Force is holding steady.

That Wolverine 1 shot, which I heard nothing but complaints about how crappy it was, coming in at #11.....:huh:.

Captain America, Thor and Invincible Iron Man's books have all cooled.

A less than terrific debut for Heroes for Hire. More people are reading Carnage.

Generation Hope better enjoy where it's at because from here on out it's just gonna sink like a rock. Not very compelling stuff from Gillen.
 
Yeah, there will be a list come up eventually with the number of issue sold estimated as well. There usually is, anyway.

That Wolverine 1 shot, which I heard nothing but complaints about how crappy it was, coming in at #11.....:huh:

One-shot? I think The Best There Is is a new ongoing isn't it?
 
One-shot? I think The Best There Is is a new ongoing isn't it?

I double checked and yeah it is. For some reason I thought it was a single issue. Doesn't change the fact that there were a lot of complaints. What's the point of launching a new ongoing 4 months after relaunching the entire line?
 
That's sort of what we've been seeing. Marvel usually wins the Unit Share, which means they had more actual comics on the shelves than DC, while DC won the dollar share, which means they sold more comics. I don't think DC has done this well for 4-5 years. Clearly, this is why Marvel is paying lip service to trimming their line and cutting prices (even if it may be April before fans on the ground notice much).

Until hard figures are out at ICV2, it is hard to compare sales of direct comics. Comic sales fell another 7% in December vs. a year ago, and the only reason overall comic sales aren't as bad is because graphic novel sales climbed. Which means being a top seller of a smaller heap isn't the same as it used to be. Another sign of why DC is where it is now is their care for the trade market. Out of the Top 10 GN's of 12/2010, 3 were DC (including the #1 seller, a FABLES trade). Y'know how many were Marvel's within that Top 10 GN's? ZERO. Y'know how many Marvel trades were in the Top 15 GN's? ZERO. Marvel treating "trade waiters" as a second class, worthy of being exploited with needless "mini HC's" to be rooked for an extra $5 if they don't wish to wait, is clearly backward. Years of being penny wise and pound foolish are catching up to the bottom line over at the House House of Ideas, methinks. But don't expect anyone to cop to that.

Still, DC dominated Marvel with 8 of the Top 10 comics; I think in November, they did that too (or at least it was 7 out of 10). You can't do that all the time and not make up. Another sign is that not only did DC dominate the Top 10, but they held their own within the Top 25 (to own a total of 13 comics out of the Top 25 sellers). Sales drops for DC comics were hefty for November, but by "hefty" we mean a sudden 6% drop for some titles after "standard decline" drops of 1-4% every month. Drops for many Marvel titles, even big books, often average around 10% or more lately without accounting for relaunches or variant covers. Not even NEW AVENGERS can sustain a sales bounce from a relaunch for long. Many of Marvel's books have seen ugly 20% drops or more. Few of their titles have held onto sales long, and while they don't see it, launching a new ongoing title at $3.99, even if every issue after is $2.99, has clearly not worked well. Many titles have been DOA before issue 6, and few have made it past issue 12. The ones that have survived do so via tooth and claw. Not even Wolverine sells like he used to. Marvel's tricks of renumbering and relaunching have been overdone to the point of predictability.

It is good to see DC do well BEFORE they launched their "Hold The Line At $2.99" initiative in 2011. One may assume they might expand on that fortune so it isn't just a fluke. December 2010 was not the strongest December sales month overall in North America, and a blizzard that covered a lot of the northeast at the end of the year didn't help.

On the flip side, all the attention has not helped SUPERMAN sell in the Top 25, and WONDER WOMAN isn't close. BATMAN and GREEN LANTERN are DC's strongest franchises, although JLA hangs in there too. Even FLASH isn't doing too badly at all, in the Top 20.

NEW AVENGERS, which was formerly Bendis' top seller, is back to out-selling AVENGERS. I'd argue WOLVERINE: THE BEST THERE IS #1 debuting within the Top 15 isn't too shabby, given his relaunch of WOLVERINE #1 was the top book of it's debut month. It's not bad when Wolverine's B-title can crack the Top 15 these days. Of course, by issue four, WOLVERINE is just hanging onto the Top 20, and his kids' books aren't doing terribly hot at all. Talk about misjudging demand. ASM only shipped one issue this month (Jan. 2011 will see 3 issues, with the .1 issue) and a gap between Bendis' Avengers books and SECRET AVENGERS has clearly formed. The best Avengers book in terms of quality, AVENGERS ACADEMY, can't even sell within the Top 50 (it's at #63 of the Top 65 and already in cancellation danger after issue #12 if it's raw sales haven't stopped falling or gone up). It had a crossover with THUNDERBOLTS not long ago, and now THUNDERBOLTS is outselling it. Not a great sign.

ASTONISHING WOLVERINE & SPIDER-MAN had a solid debut, but after falling behind schedule (on a bi-monthly schedule, no less), it's now below the Top 70. Clearly, everyone sees these ASTONISHING titles as "just another _____ comic" and they fall by the wayside. The fact that SPIDER-GIRL's second issue is already nearing the bottom of the Top 85 doesn't inspire confidence that it will last past issue six. And that breeds a self fulfilling cycle. If Marvel do not believe that anyone who has even moderate experience with the market can't look at certain release solicits and go, "That won't last, I am not getting attached", then they're more out of touch than I feared. Clearly, #1 issues for ongoings at $3.99 are a bad idea. At this point, a #1 issue for $2.99 might be dangerous.

Here's an idea. Sometimes if you make a first issue as cheap as possible, people will buy it. And perhaps if the material is good enough, your audience will remain stable and that stablity will make up any losses suffered from offering a debut at, say, $2.50 or $1.99. Try it once, Marvel. Just once. See if it works. Because clearly, using the same strategy over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again like an AI dead MEGAMAN boss is no longer working. But, what do I know, right? I'm just a mere peon, commenting on demigods.
 
DC beating Marvel in the dollar share makes me happy. Asides from a few missteps here and there (Superman/Wonder Woman, Titans), they really have been on fire lately with the Batman and Green Lantern books, Teen Titans, and the Flash.
 
DC beating Marvel in the dollar share makes me happy. Asides from a few missteps here and there (Superman/Wonder Woman, Titans), they really have been on fire lately with the Batman and Green Lantern books, Teen Titans, and the Flash.

Yup. Especially Green Lantern. :hal:
 
Hey, I love Titans!!!

And while seeing Marvel get beat out excites me, I can't feel as excited now that Quesada's not EiC anymore. This time period is still his baby though so I guess I can cling to that.
 
Marvel remains King, this was an aberration. Besides, Marvel killed them in Units, despite everyone glossing over that fact.
 
That's sort of what we've been seeing. Marvel usually wins the Unit Share, which means they had more actual comics on the shelves than DC, while DC won the dollar share, which means they sold more comics.

Um, no, I'm pretty sure Marvel has had the upper hand in both in recent memory.

Marvel remains King, this was an aberration. Besides, Marvel killed them in Units, despite everyone glossing over that fact.

Nobody glossed over anything. The fact was acknowledged, but the truth is that Marvel almost always produces more content than DC traditionally. Them winning the Unit Share percentage is pretty much a given.
 
Marvel remains King, this was an aberration. Besides, Marvel killed them in Units, despite everyone glossing over that fact.

In November 2010, the dollar/unit share between Marvel and DC were so close that while Marvel won out, some considered it a draw (or photo finish). Q4 (4th quarter) 2010 has been better for DC than for Marvel, I'd say. The difference is DC's doing a line wide price cut IMMEDIATELY. Marvel, at best, are waiting until maybe Q2 2011 for it to really kick in.

Um, no, I'm pretty sure Marvel has had the upper hand in both in recent memory.

I meant that what we were seeing was that DC won the Dollar Share, while Marvel won the Unit Share, because they move more units, i.e. flood the market. This month. Sorry for not being specific.
 
Meh. I can't stand a lot of what DC publishes. But, on the other hand, I can't stand a lot of what Marvel publishes either. I'd probably be happy if Dark Horse won the market share. :)
 
I meant that what we were seeing was that DC won the Dollar Share, while Marvel won the Unit Share, because they move more units, i.e. flood the market. This month. Sorry for not being specific.

Wait, wait, Marvel won the unit share...because they sold more units? I don't understand Dread, please elaborate further. I want to know how you analyze things so quickly.
 
I'm glad DC is giving Marvel a run for it's money. The fans all win in the end with competition like this.
 
Marvel remains King, this was an aberration. Besides, Marvel killed them in Units, despite everyone glossing over that fact.

Well, I'd say dollar share is probably a bigger deal, but I'd guess dollar per unit would be a nice way to compare. Next month, DC's prices are going back to 2.99, so Marvel will probably win dollar share.
 
I'm glad Marvel lost due to their comic prices. I know they are supposed to go down soon but it's wrong to get it that high from the get go. It's what turned me to DC and haven't look back sinced. GL 2011!
 
Wait, wait, Marvel won the unit share...because they sold more units? I don't understand Dread, please elaborate further. I want to know how you analyze things so quickly.

The article cited Diamond's statistics that DC had a higher Dollar Share of the Market in 12/2010, 33.07% vs. Marvel's 32.28%. To be fair, that's a margin of victory that is under 1%, and for many polls that could be within a margin of error.

Marvel, however, owned the Unit Share of 12/2010, 38.9% versus DC's 36.99%. It's another close margin, but farther than DC's over the Dollar Share.

I figured that meant that DC moved more dollars that month, while Marvel more units. Marvel has been moving units all over the place in 2010, especially Thor, Cap, and Deadpool units. On a typical month they print 10-20 more "units" than DC does, and DC has imprints like Vertigo and WildStorm (which ended in 2010).

To reply to Corp, there's also no chance that Dark Horse would ever win the market share. They're about 3-4% of the market and have been since the 90's. If anything, both Marvel and DC have gained shares of the market that Image Comics used to have in the 90's. Even in 1997-1998, Image Comics represented about 13% of the market. These days? Around 3-4% like Dark Horse. The success of Robert Kirkman may help, though.
 
Yeah, I know it'll never happen. Dark Horse publishes a lot of damn good comics, though. Probably a higher percentage of their total line is good to great than Marvel and DC's combined.
 
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19118.html

ICV2 has started on their own figure releases. Officially, comic sales for 2010 are down about 3.5% overall versus 2009. Supposedly, things picked up, or were merely less bleak, in Q4 2010 than in Q3 2010.

Marvel and DC each owned 5 of the Top 10 selling comics in 2010 (overall). In terms of graphic novels, Image's WALKING DEAD and Oni Press' SCOTT PILGRIM dominated the charts. SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE was DC's best selling GN in 2010, while Marvel technically appeared on that chart with KICK-ASS, which is published via Icon.

Apparently, AVENGERS #1 was the best selling comic in 2010. It sold approx. 170,682 copies. However, sales have fallen on that over 47% within six months. DC's best seller of 2010 was BLACKEST NIGHT #8, which is interesting as that was the FINALE to the story. BRIGHTEST DAY #0-1 were also on the Top 10 of 2010's sales charts, and they both sold over 129k; BD's sales drop over six months has been a more modest 38%. And maybe that's the story. DC comics don't always sell so much out of the gate, but their sales stumble less further down the stretch.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I was surprised the bump Scott Pilgrim got. I know comics of movie adaptations get a natural bump, but something like all six volumes were in the top 10 for 3 or 4 straight months, and still stuck fairly high well after that.
 
Never underestimate the power of hipsters with a new obsession and some cash to burn. ;)
 
It isn't just that. Movies, even "unsuccessful" films like "SCOTT PILGRIM VS. THE WORLD" or "modest hits" like "KICK-ASS" can boost sales for trades if there is only one thing to get. Someone who wants to read KICK-ASS the comic because of the film merely has to walk into a comic or book store, look for one volume, find it, buy it, and so on. WATCHMEN dominated the 2009 charts for similar reasons. Even though there are six trades of SCOTT PILGRIM, it is ONE THING, with clearly numbered volumes. 6 of SC is easier to hot on than, say, a lot of manga like NARUTO or ONE PIECE that are like 50+ volumes deep.

But what about those mainstream heroes? Newbie walks into a comic or book store looking for Batman or Iron Man stuff, and they get A WALL full of trades that are named and not numbered. There is no hint where to start and no end in sight. They leave promptly. There also is probably the factor that people aren't stupid and know how old these franchises are. WATCHMEN is a classic and the others are new. Iron Man? It's new if you're Newt Gingrich's age.

DC decided to try to tap that with SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE. No monthlies, just one thing, come in and buy one thing. It was a top seller of 2010, and I imagine DC pocketed more cash from that than Marvel does with KICK-ASS.
 
The article cited Diamond's statistics that DC had a higher Dollar Share of the Market in 12/2010, 33.07% vs. Marvel's 32.28%. To be fair, that's a margin of victory that is under 1%, and for many polls that could be within a margin of error.

Marvel, however, owned the Unit Share of 12/2010, 38.9% versus DC's 36.99%. It's another close margin, but farther than DC's over the Dollar Share.
Now, I can't tell if you're messing with me, or if you're seriously trying to explain the article to me by just repeating the article.:huh:
 
DC decided to try to tap that with SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE. No monthlies, just one thing, come in and buy one thing. It was a top seller of 2010, and I imagine DC pocketed more cash from that than Marvel does with KICK-ASS.

Well, Kick-Ass is a creator-owned project of Mark Millar and John Romita's. So, yeah.
 
Now, I can't tell if you're messing with me, or if you're seriously trying to explain the article to me by just repeating the article.:huh:

DC moved more dollars in December, and Marvel moved more units. The latter is no surprise because Marvel has been flooding the market for some time now. Not sure how else to put it.

Well, Kick-Ass is a creator-owned project of Mark Millar and John Romita's. So, yeah.

Now, to be fair, by publishing KICK-ASS via Icon, Marvel is seeing more from it than if Millar & Romita Jr. had published it with another company. Even 1% is better than 0%, after all.

Comic Chronicles has posted the Top 300 list as well as the Top GN lists with hard numbers here: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010/2010-12.html

For the THIRD month IN A ROW, no comic book has sold 100k. To be fair, in November, BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE missed that mark by about 500 copies, and it may hit it if it gets a reprint. This month, however, no comic sold 90k. This would be the 4th month in 2010 in which no comic sold 100k; most of those being in the final quarter. Marvel's best selling comic, NEW AVENGERS #7 (which was one of only two comics Marvel had in the Top 10 sellers list), did not even sell 68k in Dec. 2010.

Marvel and DC it seems are increasingly becoming big fish in small ponds. And as the pond has shrunk this year, it seems DC's fish has been able to not exactly gain sales, but not lose them to the degree that Marvel has. It's thus no surprise that FEAR ITSELF is coming, and we'll see if the crossover jazzes up sales. SIEGE #1 and #2 were among the top selling comics of 2010 overall, and even that was below the sales of, say, SECRET INVASION.

AVENGERS has seen such ups and downs since Bendis launched it. It sold 89k back in November and under 68k in December. That's nuts, unless you consider how many variant covers AVENGERS #7 had, versus #8. Still, AVENGERS #6 lacked too many variants in October and it sold 73k, so the trend is steadily downward even for Marvel's peak titles. NEW AVENGERS #7 actually saw a modest gain of about 1,000+ sales from November. Still, it's not a good sign when Marvel's top books can't even break the 70k barrier. It may be noticed that out of DC's 8 of the Top 10 sellers, 6 were priced at $2.99 (and 9 DC books in the Top 20 were priced at $2.99). Want to know how many Marvel books in the Top 20 were priced at $2.99? Exactly zero. In fact, the best selling Marvel book that was priced at $2.99 is a technicality; NEMESIS is priced at that (it sold at #22 of the Top 25), but it's another Mark Millar Icon book, so he owns the rights and sets the price. In fact the first Marvel house book that is priced at $2.99 is X-MEN LEGACY, which in December sold at #29 of the Top 30. DC only had 5 books in the Top 30 that were priced over $3.99 (although one was a Batman Annual priced at $5, and another was BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 which was the top seller of the month).

To a degree, Joe Q departs the EIC chair at a time when in terms of the multi-media empire, Marvel is doing better than it ever has. In terms of raw comic sales, it's doing about as well as 2001-2002 (and even that may be modest). It seems clear to me that the $3.99 price point has outlived it's usefulness at Marvel. It may have allowed them to keep raw profits up in 2009 and into 2010, but as 2010 shifts into 2011 it has now cut fans to the bone. Marvel have announced an awkward and confusing series of price cuts, but even they have admitted in interviews that fans may not notice them until around March or April. DC, meanwhile, is being eager to get fans to notice their price cuts NOW. Of course, David Gabriel, not the EIC, sets comic prices. But if the EIC and all of the editors and Joe Quesada the chief creative officer all unified and wanted the prices cut next month, I have no doubt they would.

HEROES FOR HIRE #1 debuted within the Top 60 (at #59) with just over 30k. That's not too bad of a debut, but I still wouldn't bet money that it survives past issue six or seven.

AVENGERS ACADEMY #7 saw a sales climb over November of over 1,700 copies; granted, it was an issue that not only featured Hank Pym's latest costume change, it had 2-3 variant covers. Still, anything that trims the bleeding. Even that boost brought it to about 27,700 copies, or below AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE's lowest sales point of 28k. It will last to at least issue twelve, but who knows where it will be past that. Even Christos Gage gushed about how rare it is to be writing a Marvel book that was recently launched and lasting to see a full year, which is as honest as it is sad.

SPIDER-GIRL debuted to just under 24k sales, and issue two is down to just over 21,600 copies. Given that it's not uncommon to see sales for a second issue drop 10-20% from the debut, this isn't a bad drop at all. The question, though, is how long it stays north of 19k, which seems to be Marvel's cut off point for ongoing series lacking FOREVER in the title (and even X-MEN FOREVER 2 is being canned with issue #16). Add it to the heap of new launches sold with a $4 debut issue and then switching to $3 regular issues.

ASM only shipped one BIG TIME issue in December (it will ship three in January), and it landed in the 55k range, which is the high side of average for an issue of ASM in the post-BND era. Since shifting to a thrice monthly format, ASM has been capable of sales spikes for specific stories into the 68k-70k range, but usually averages about 52-55k for "typical" issues. While that's low for ASM, keep in mind that it was combined with what were Spider-Man's B and C titles, which usually sold lower. Still, I think if ASM's "merger" was a larger success, we would have seen all the X-Books or even all the Avengers books combined into a similar format.

After months of neck and neck, there is now a clear distance between Bendis' Avengers books and Brubaker's SECRET AVENGERS of over 13k. It's sales are shifting into revealing that it really is the Avengers C-book. I mean, it's a series that brags about having Shang Chi as a guest star and has featured no notable villain. The roster faces more villains in guest appearances in other books than in their own; they took on Dr. Bong in a recent Deadpool guest appearance.

Still, it is amazing how low the sales thresholds are for December 2010. SUPERIOR #3 sold under 32k and made the Top 50. WHAT IF? SPIDER-MAN sold at under 19k and made the Top 100. If Brian K. Vaughan and Adrian Alphona were still on their RUNAWAYS run, which averaged about 23-25k, it would have been solidly in the Top 80 for months and looked better than it did years ago.

IRON MAN/THOR is selling far below DnA's usual sales on space books; THANOS IMPERATIVE remained at 29k for most of it's run, while IM/T has slipped to below 16k. Of course, it happens to be "just another Iron Man and/or Thor" book in a month saturated with them. In contrast, HEROES FOR HIRE #1 was a better debut for them.

It truly is amazing to see the low sales for all those Deadpool books (two of which are getting canceled in March, with DEADPOOLMAX shifting into a mini, so I hear). There were countless voices screaming at Marvel that they were spamming DP too much, that if they'd just stuck to a sane amount of books, like maybe 1-2, he would have been set for maybe half a decade. Now he's starting to shift into territory similar to equally spammed characters of the 90's like Punisher, Ghost Rider, and Venom. Why does Marvel insist on learning every lesson the hard way?

It seems Marvel within the last six years or so just learns every lesson too late. The time for a modest price cut was early 2010. In 2011, it's time to get more drastic if Marvel wants to continue avoiding the sorts of issues that magazines saw in 2008. Again, is isn't so much that DC has gained massive ground, it's that they've lost less ground within the last quarter than Marvel has in terms of comic sales. Marvel is better off in terms of alternate media these days, but DC's starting to come back from hibernation. Can Marvel fend off a revived DC now like they did in 2006?

"THREE" has boosted sales for FANTASTIC FOUR, but only gets them back to where they sold in May. The Hickman run has, sadly, seen the worst sales dives in recent history for the Four. Under Waid, JMS, and Millar, the series never fell below 50k. Even during the McDuffie run, it was rarely below 40k long.

ICV2 also has their own analysis and figures:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19112.html
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"