Did Bruce succeed in his goal?

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by DACrowe, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. DACrowe Registered

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    Bruce states, very clearly n the first act of Batman Begins that he will be coming back to Gotham for as long as it takes to show the people of Gotham that their city doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt. He becomes an elemental symbol to inspire them to want more and do better.

    I feel like in The Dark Knight we actually see him mostly succeeding. He's taken out the head of the mob in the city, causing organized crime to be in disarray. He forced the police force to clean itself up and become ambitious again. He inspired Harvey Dent who along with Gordon and Batman took out all the money launderers and organized crime in Gotham....but then Joker turns it all on its head, turns Batman's symbol into one of horror and then to cover up Harvey Dent's fall, Batman becomes the monster.

    This lie to save Dent's image allows Gotham to continue its clean path with some suspect legislation, but it builds its foundations on a lie that when the truth comes out is used by a madman to descend Gotham into more chaos and self-destruction than Bruce could ever imagine in BB. Yes, he saves Gotham from that madman at the end and now Gotham knows the truth about his symbol being one of a heroic nature....but is Gotham's soul saved? Will Batman saving Gotham from Bane's bomb actually inspire the city to do better? Or did he simply accept that he did as well as he could by saving the city from an existential threat and leaves it in their hands to rebuild into a new city?

    I am not sure if he actually succeeded in the movie.
     
  2. Rockbottom Registered

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    Yes he did in a way. It was always an unattainable goal and a war he could never 100% win to totally get rid of crime in Gotham but by saving the city and sacrificing himself he turned Batman into everything Dent was suppose to represent and inspire. So the people of the city now have Batman to look up to as a symbol that one man can make a difference and they dont have to steal or turn to crime, they have other options.

    Also I would assume Bruce Wayne donating everything he did and his 'death' will inspire the wealthy too the same way Thomas and Martha Wayne's deaths did. So in the end Batman is a hero who sacrificed himself to save the city, was the hero they all needed and represents everything Harvey Dent was suppose to. This is why they build the statue and Blake cant become Batman because it would cheapen his sacrifice.
     
  3. KalMart 239-Bean Irish Chili

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    He did his part and passed on the ongoing fight. With that philosophy of 'always needing a Batman' in mind, yes he succeeded by not letting that fight end with him and establishing that it will always go on....rather than having to not be there like the years before he returned one last time.
     
  4. zmystico Registered

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    He created Batman to inspire people, at the end...Gotham was inspiried, the timid and dirty cops in Begins are now running to fight for their city, a thief was transformed into a protector...Gotham no longer needed their silent guardian, Gotham grew up.

    Bruce succeeded, and finally healed.
     
  5. Optimus_Prime_ Registered

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    There's a lot of loose ends, and yet I think they just needed to wrap it up. Not perfect, but works.

    One thing I keep having trouble with now is everyone, not just those four, will know he was Batman. The trail of breadcrumbs left in the movie would be too easy to follow.
     
  6. shauner111 Registered

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    Absolutely.
     
  7. KalMart 239-Bean Irish Chili

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    I always thought it was kinda' important at the end for Gotham to know it was Wayne, and that a son of Gotham with every reason and means to insulate himself from hardship took on the hardest struggle of all.
     
  8. BREAD WARRIOR Registered

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    In my eyes I thought he achieved his goal in The Dark Knight seeing as the mob was almost entirely gone and Gotham was inspired, even if it was based on a lie. IMO that's why he felt he was able to retire and why he was able to accept the lie and get rid of Batman, because he completed his goal.

    In The Dark Knight Rises I feel like since his goal was already attained, him coming out of retirement was because of Bane being capable of destruction that no one else was capable of. It was out of necessity not to further his goal. But my thought has been once Bane revealed the truth about Harvey, that his goal was no longer attained seeing as all of Gotham now knows The Dent Act is founded on a lie. So Bruce now has to reach his goal again.

    And I feel by him sacrificing himself for all of Gotham to see was his way of attaining the goal. The person that was able to continue a lie for the greater good of Gotham, who was hated by all, still cares enough about the city to give his life for everyone else. So in short, yes I think he attains his goal twice in the series but in different ways, in The Dark Knight the wrong way and in The Dark Knight Rises the right way.
     
  9. TheBat812 Registered

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    His real goal was to inspire people into action through a symbol, something the film addresses directly. Yes, he succeeds. It's addressed with Matthew modines arc, which is really the only reason he's in the film - he represents the inspiration having trickled down to even the cowardly. The most obvious is Robin taking up the mantle as a new dark knight rises. there are more examples throughout the film. It's incredibly clear that he succeeded, which is why the end is so powerful. It echoes for the characters and thematically.
     
    #9 TheBat812, Jul 24, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  10. The Guard Registered

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    He inspired Blake...Gotham, not so much, other than to build a statue of him.
     
  11. DACrowe Registered

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    Here's one small change I would have made that would have made all the difference:

    We see Jim Gordon say earlier in the film that he needs to get in front of a camera and tell people there is still leadership and order in Gotham and Blake shoots him down saying it's too dangerous. Somewhere between Batman freeing the cops and sending Catwoman on her mission (or maybe right after) Batman hacks into the media around the city and not so much gives a speech but gives some elemental signal that Gotham need not let their city belong to Bane and the madmen who revel in his "revolution" and that if the citizens want to save their city, they have to fight for it.

    Then not only do we see that one cop come back in his full regalia and join Gordon/Batman, but hundreds of citizens join the cops to take their city back. And that way it's not just a fight between the cops and League of Shadows/anarchists, but between the people of Gotham and those who are trying to destroy it. Batman inspires the people of Gotham to rise up and save their city.

    That would have made the "Gangs of New York" showdown much more epic, in my opinion. It also would show Batman has become the symbol of hope and salvation that the people have needed all this time.
     
    #11 DACrowe, Jul 24, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  12. The Guard Registered

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  13. Optimus_Prime_ Registered

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    Yet we don't really know they know, so it's just a loose thread in my opinion. Had to be heavily suspected at that point.
     

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