Batman Begins Did Ra's Al Ghul lie?

[The Jester]

Okay,

Im getting into this big argument with this kid i dont know about ra's al ghul.

He says that ra's al ghul never lied in batman begins, but i believe that he actually did lie by hiding his real identity and making bruce believe that the chinese guy was ra's al ghul.

I dont care if im wrong, i just wanna to go straight to the best resource (you guys) and get this matter settled.

Did he lie, or no

 

[UA-Archangel]

Ra's may have meant lie, as in a deliberate fashion to decieve to gain the advantage over somebody, as opposed to testing somebody to see if they were worthy to join the assassin's guild.

There is a difference.

 

[Steve Holt]

maybe ra's al ghul is a title in nolan's universe. so he is ducard and ra's al ghul, just a thought

 

[Two-Face]

Ken Watanabe isn't Chinese, he's Japanese.

He could be that Steve, but in my opinion he's was the real Ra's and ken was just a decoy.

 

[Kaizer]

maybe ra's al ghul is a title in nolan's universe. so he is ducard and ra's al ghul, just a thought

Well it is in the comics too, isn't it? Doesn't he say that he forgot his real name ages ago? and didn't Nyssa take the title of Ra's Al Ghul while he was dead?

 

[johnlennon696]

Did Ra's Al Ghul jump out the train at the end or was he flung out?

 

[jokermatt]

Many of you will say I'm crazy but when I first saw it I had the strange feeling that Ducard was Ducard and the younger Japanese guy was a younger Ra's restored by the pit. If they wanted to bring him back this would be a way to go.

 

[The Batman]

i must say that the idea that ras al ghul is only a title ranks up there with some of the dumbest ideas ive heard. Neeson clearly resembles the classic ras we all know...

 

[CFE]

Neeson was Ras' all along ... Watanabe was a decoy, not unlike one of the real world "cheap parlor tricks" Saddam Hussein would use.

But one of the theorys I had...not that Ras' Al Ghul was a title, but what if the real Ras' (Neeson) set up multiple decoys as a board of lieutenants type thing? If the League of Shadows were a global network, Ghul obviously can't command all of them himself.

So he sets up decoys to not only protect himself from potential assasination, etc. But he operates through these 'figureheads' around the world...which also helps to bulk up the symbol of "Ras' Al Ghul" as more than a man...

Exactly like Batman.

CFE

 

[Doc Samson]

Ras was definitely Neeson the whole time, but since we're on the subject I always had one question....

When he crashes Bruce's birthday party, when he first reveals himself to be the true Ras he says "isn't Ras Al Ghul immortal, his methods supernatural" or something to that effect. Now Nolan has stated some of Batman's villains won't work because he's going for a realistic approach, but to me, it seems like Ras was admitting to being immortal, just like the comics .

He also goes on about destroying previous civilizations, dating back thousands of years. I don't believe we'll be seeing Ras again, but I always found it interesting that Nolan would use those choice of words. Maybe it was just a nod to fans, who knows, but I do find it odd that Ras himself refers to being immortal and supernatural...

 

[The Demon's Head]

Wow. People really didn't get the reveal scne. Ducard is clearly the real Ra's. Even in the monestary, he's the one that we see give orders and explain their cause to Bruce. They even hint at the fact that he's immortal, when he's talking about destroying previous civilazations.

 

[CFE]

Wow. People really didn't get the reveal scne. Ducard is clearly the real Ra's. Even in the monestary, he's the one that we see give orders and explain their cause to Bruce. They even hint at the fact that he's immortal, when he's talking about destroying previous civilazations.

Well duh, everyone should've caught that easily...right?

CFE

 

[webhead9707]

well actually I thought he meant the orginazation not him in perticular

 

[Steve Holt]

i wasn't doubting nesson was ra's al along, ken was definately a decoy. i'm just pointing out that i think at least in Nolan's world that Ra's Al Ghul (The Demon's Head) is a title. and he may have been one of the many head's thoughout history. the idea of immortality just doesn't seem right in nolan's world.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Ras was definitely Neeson the whole time, but since we're on the subject I always had one question....

When he crashes Bruce's birthday party, when he first reveals himself to be the true Ras he says "isn't Ras Al Ghul immortal, his methods supernatural" or something to that effect. Now Nolan has stated some of Batman's villains won't work because he's going for a realistic approach, but to me, it seems like Ras was admitting to being immortal, just like the comics .

He also goes on about destroying previous civilizations, dating back thousands of years. I don't believe we'll be seeing Ras again, but I always found it interesting that Nolan would use those choice of words. Maybe it was just a nod to fans, who knows, but I do find it odd that Ras himself refers to being immortal and supernatural...

You know what would have made that scene perfect? If Ras had been wearing his green suit and cloak from the comics....

To me, that's almost has disappointing as having The Joker NOT wearing purple.

 

[Fenrir]

You know what would have made that scene perfect? If Ras had been wearing his green suit and cloak from the comics....

To me, that's almost has disappointing as having The Joker NOT wearing purple.

If you hadn't noticed, in that scene his decoy was wearing the green suit and cloak from the comics.

 

[regwec]

Ra's cane and the gas mask he wears are straight from the comics, too.

Ra's fate is like Two Face's; he appears to be dead, but there is no finality to it. If a writer wants to bring either back in the future, then they have plenty of room in which to do so.

 

[HaileyBurns1]

i know that this is against everyone *defense stance* so back off. what if? What if? I know that neeson was really Ra's, but what if? Wantabe or whatever his name is really was Ra's and when he died, Neeson took over. it's just a theory so chill, but what do you think about it?

 

[regwec]

It's a popular idea, because it unifies the comicbook idea of immortality with a real-world application. It actually applies to Ra's the nature of Ubu's continuity- where one man succeeds another and takes his name.

I don't care for it, though, firstly because Neeson was a superb Ra's, and captured his imperious malice very well, but also because a lot of his time as Ducard is neat foreshadowing of the revelation of his true identity.

 

[The Batman]

Neeson was Ras' all along ... Watanabe was a decoy, not unlike one of the real world "cheap parlor tricks" Saddam Hussein would use.

But one of the theorys I had...not that Ras' Al Ghul was a title, but what if the real Ras' (Neeson) set up multiple decoys as a board of lieutenants type thing? If the League of Shadows were a global network, Ghul obviously can't command all of them himself.

So he sets up decoys to not only protect himself from potential assasination, etc. But he operates through these 'figureheads' around the world...which also helps to bulk up the symbol of "Ras' Al Ghul" as more than a man...

Exactly like Batman.

CFE

this is much smarter than saying that the wantanbe's character was the actual ras when there' only been one ACTUAL Ras in the comics

 

[The Batman]

i know that this is against everyone *defense stance* so back off. what if? What if? I know that neeson was really Ra's, but what if? Wantabe or whatever his name is really was Ra's and when he died, Neeson took over. it's just a theory so chill, but what do you think about it?

Again...its quite frankly...dumb. Not only does it dull the effect of the plot twist a mentioned before, but people forget that nolan is actually very faithful to the comics...and in the comics...there is only ONE, I repeat...ONE Ras Al Ghul.

 

[nightwing666]

this is my say on Ra's. Ken was the decoy Ra's then he died and at the party at the end there was a similar asian looking Ra's that took his place as the decoy.By doing that by keep replacing the decoy with a similar looking asian Ra's it looks like tha same Ra's has been around for centuries,Looking like he's (Immortal)that the decoy always dresses in red and green robes and maybe the original Ra's was aribic hence the aribic name.

Now ducard/ra's is just a title.ducard said at the campfire that he once had a great love and that vengence solved his problems because he says he always wasnt in the mountains.He's just like bruce where he lost someone and joined the league of shadows and became their best ninja but he believes in everything that the league says and does, not like bruce and when the (then) head (white or black or whatever colour) leader of the league died he became Ra's.So if bruce did behead that farmer and did their mission to destroy gotham and the ducard/ra's died Bruce would take the title of Ra's,becoming the head of the league of shadows.when Ducard goes out to find new people or (ninjas) he just uses the name Ducard,but when he's at home with the league he's called Ra's.I believe that if bruce beheaded the farmer to show his trust Ducard would of told bruce that he's the real Ra's (Ra's is the title of the man in charge).To back this up first buce says "Ra's is dead I watched him die" then ducard says to bruce at the party "is Ra's al ghul immortal or his methods simply supernatural" then bruce say's to ducard "or cheap parlor tricks to consume your true identity Ra's" and then ducard nods.But the neeson ducard/ra's still has the goatee/beard like in the comics.