The Dark Knight Didn't The Joker need the Mob, more than the Mob needed him?

[Wolverine1988]

I was just thinking after watching this movie for the hundreth time, but didn't Joker need the Mob more than they needed him?

I mean he could have never done the stuff he did without using some of there goons and especially the Cops on there payroll.

Joker would have never been able to pull of that whole Dent/Kidnapping without having the Cops on Maronis payroll pick them up, i mean Jokers thugs were all Asylum escapees so i doubt they could have managed to do any of that, seeing is how they would be pretty obvious to spot out, whils Wuertz and Ramirez were Cops.


He needed them for the begnining to get things going, I don't think he would have gotten far with his thugs, he need the Mob's resources.

 

[redhawk23]

Well yeah he needed their resources, which is why he stole from them to begin with. Its the fact that he was so able to manipulate them that he was successful to the degree that he was.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well yeah he needed their resources, which is why he stole from them to begin with. Its the fact that he was so able to manipulate them that he was successful to the degree that he was.

Well said. He facilely manipulated the mob because they were desperate after Batman's success in his war on crime. As Bruce's conversation with Alfred about Joker goes,
Bruce Wayne: Targeting me won't get their money back. I knew the mob wouldn't go down without a fight, but this is different. They crossed the line.
Alfred Pennyworth: You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand.
Bruce Wayne: Criminals aren't complicated, Alfred. Just have to figure out what he's after.
Alfred Pennyworth: With respect, sir, perhaps this is a man that *you* don't fully understand.

 

[IndyJokerJones]

In a way, Joker is more responsible for the elimination of the mobs in Gotham than Batman was. He took their money, took their men, took their power and then killed them all so he was left top dog. It's one of the best jokes in the movie.

 

[Boom]

^ Hit the nail on the head, which is why I wish that aspect was touched upon more in the film.

It is a cruel irony that a deranged lunatic was able to render the mob powerless in one fell swoop, whereas Batman, Gordon, and Dent have been trying (and failing) for years to take them down by the book. Without that money, what exactly could the mob bosses do? They could no longer afford the best attorneys. They could no longer keep city officials and police officers in their pockets. They could no longer pay to keep their men around. They couldn't do anything.

Money gave them power. But as The Joker made clear, anyone who gains power from something as material as money (something that can be so easily destroyed) doesn't deserve that power. When he took it away, they came crashing back down to Earth with everybody else.

It's an understated aspect of the film, but in my opinion one of the most important. It was a huge slap in the face to the trio. And as you said, it was one of The Joker's best "jokes."

 

[Boom]

I was just thinking after watching this movie for the hundreth time, but didn't Joker need the Mob more than they needed him?

I mean he could have never done the stuff he did without using some of there goons and especially the Cops on there payroll.

Joker would have never been able to pull of that whole Dent/Kidnapping without having the Cops on Maronis payroll pick them up, i mean Jokers thugs were all Asylum escapees so i doubt they could have managed to do any of that, seeing is how they would be pretty obvious to spot out, whils Wuertz and Ramirez were Cops.


He needed them for the begnining to get things going, I don't think he would have gotten far with his thugs, he need the Mob's resources.

Of course he did. But that's the beauty of it. He conned them into thinking they needed him. And as a "thank you," he totally ****ed them over.

 

[The Joker]

In a way, Joker is more responsible for the elimination of the mobs in Gotham than Batman was. He took their money, took their men, took their power and then killed them all so he was left top dog. It's one of the best jokes in the movie.

 

[IndyJokerJones]

^ Hit the nail on the head, which is why I wish that aspect was touched upon more in the film.

It is a cruel irony that a deranged lunatic was able to render the mob powerless in one fell swoop, whereas Batman, Gordon, and Dent have been trying (and failing) for years to take them down by the book. Without that money, what exactly could the mob bosses do? They could no longer afford to best attorneys. They could no longer keep city officials and police officers in their pockets. They could no longer pay to keep their men around. They couldn't do anything.

Money gave them power. But as The Joker made clear, anyone who gains power from something as material as money (something that can be so easily destroyed) doesn't deserve that power. When he took it away, they came crashing back down to Earth with everybody else.

It's an understated aspect of the film, but in my opinion one of the most important. It was a huge slap in the face to the trio. And as you said, it was one of The Joker's best "jokes."

It really is depressing when you just watch the rooftop meeting of the trio and see how badly they want to clean up Gotham and then skip to the end and watch as they all blame themselves for what's happened. At the same time though it's hilarious because like you said, these three men were doing things as by the book as they could, cleaning up Gotham and trying to get it back to it's former glory. What happens? This mad dog (probably a product of Gotham's corruption) comes into the scene and instead of "18 months of clean streets" he burns the streets in just a few nights of play.

It's funny because since the mob had so much control over Gotham, the elimination of them would bring so much more chaos to the city than corrupting the citizens since you're destroying the integral infrastructure: crime. I would love to see if this is touched upon in Rises because the mob had such a grasp on everything and to see it all disappear overnight would be anarchy.

 

[The Joker]

I would love to see if this is touched upon in Rises because the mob had such a grasp on everything and to see it all disappear overnight would be anarchy.

Same here. I want the new criminal vacuum Joker's created in the underworld to be addressed.