Discusin' the Skull

[FlameHead]

You're definatly right about having it all white; they definatly should not have it that way, like a polished cleaned up skull. Something like this is what you're talking about I would assume...

The lighting is going to be extreamly hard for the skull because it's surrounded in fire. How do you put shadaws and such in there?

 

[InVictus]

well, it depends from various things. To example, imagine GR with full roaring white hot flame(very pissed off). I think in that case the best way should be to not show the vertebral column, and only the front part of the skull, almost black, by contrast with the flame, with eyes and nose holes also white. With "normal" fire i woul make it with black eye/nose sockets, light bone color, with variable shadow on the forehead/between eye sockets.

 

[Vartha]

6, 8, I've always liked the idea that fire was like a skin around Blazes skeleton. Which is why I drew his neck in on my drawing in the fan art thread.

 

[WiscoD]

6 and 10 for me...

 

[Uncanny Orb]

I took the poster and blackened out the eyes and around the teeth and any other little holes in the skull and now it looks exactly like I want to see him.

 

[FlameHead]

How about you post it and show us? I'd love to see it.

well, it depends from various things. To example, imagine GR with full roaring white hot flame(very pissed off). I think in that case the best way should be to not show the vertebral column, and only the front part of the skull, almost black, by contrast with the flame, with eyes and nose holes also white. With "normal" fire i woul make it with black eye/nose sockets, light bone color, with variable shadow on the forehead/between eye sockets.

I have to disagree with the vertebral column though. I don't want to see Ghost Rider's Skull floating in the flame. It has to be connected to something. In fact, I'm hoping to see his jacket schredded and pieces hanging off at some point so that we can see the whole flaming skeleton... or more parts of it anyway.

 

[Hellcycle2000]

i prefer the decayed demonic look ghost rider

 

[FlameHead]

It is pretty eerie MM. The eye sockets seem bottomless.

i prefer the decayed demonic look ghost rider

Decayed and demonic is always good... unless it's your girlfriend of course.

 

[WiscoD]

Jeez, i really want to see the GR cameos after seeing these screen caps..

 

[FlameHead]

You and me both Wisco.

 

[FlameHead]

Another question that could be brought up is whether or not he'll have 'fangs' or not. Some artists drew him with those pointed teeth when others didn't. I'm wondering which artists influenced the look of our moive Ghost Rider more?

 

[Mr Nick]

Well, I'm firmly a Texeira/Saltares man. Theirs were the first Ghost Rider comics I read. For me, that's the perfect Ghost Rider look: a realistic skull with soulless empty sockets, a not overly huge frame (ahem Ron Garney ahem), dressed in spiked leathers and carrying his trademark chain. Pretty much what we saw in the Comic Con poster (eyes excepted).

Having said that, I'm really looking forward to seeing what other gear he'll wear in the film and how it'll warp when he transforms.

 

[Radford]

1,4,5,7,10

 

[FlameHead]

Well, I'm firmly a Texeira/Saltares man. Theirs were the first Ghost Rider comics I read. For me, that's the perfect Ghost Rider look: a realistic skull with soulless empty sockets, a not overly huge frame (ahem Ron Garney ahem), dressed in spiked leathers and carrying his trademark chain. Pretty much what we saw in the Comic Con poster (eyes excepted).

Having said that, I'm really looking forward to seeing what other gear he'll wear in the film and how it'll warp when he transforms.

This is exactly the era I'm most fond of as well. They definatly had a handle on how the character looked. This is why I posed the question on the fangs actually, as they were the team to use the fangs. Tex espeically, if I remember.

 

[NDX]

What do you mean by fangs? Large canines? I just want to be sure.

I remember Erik Larson (Larsen? been a while, forgot how to spell his name) drawing large canines when Ghost Rider guess-stared in Spiderman.

I prefer the style of Tex overall and hope they just go for a skull (something I have never been able to draw myself). Plain a simple. I think that is imposing enough without the exaggerated teeth.

And no moving brow. That really bothered me when reading the comic. I know the character needed to show emotion, and it is very hard to do it just through camera angles alone, but the shifting brow just made me uneasy.

 

[GraveDigger]

2, 4, 6, 8, 10.

 

[Seeker]

What about that: flesh and muscles of the head turns into fire, remaining only the skull?

 

[FlameHead]

What do you mean by fangs? Large canines? I just want to be sure.

I remember Erik Larson (Larsen? been a while, forgot how to spell his name) drawing large canines when Ghost Rider guess-stared in Spiderman.

I prefer the style of Tex overall and hope they just go for a skull (something I have never been able to draw myself). Plain a simple. I think that is imposing enough without the exaggerated teeth.

And no moving brow. That really bothered me when reading the comic. I know the character needed to show emotion, and it is very hard to do it just through camera angles alone, but the shifting brow just made me uneasy.

I don't think we'll see any Skull structural changes in the movie. They can get away with those things in the comics but not on film.

Indeed, what I mean't by fangs was oversized pointed canines. Not to the point of a vampire say but bigger and pointier yes.

 

[Jin Saotome]

On a totally weird note... I was watching the Army of Darkness DVD special features and came across this little blurb where they mentioned Sam Raimi had the model makers build up on a normal skull to give it more personality/features. They made them bigger brows, sloped eyes, an overall meaner look to a regular human skull that they started out working with.

After watching the clips of GR punching, pointing, etc, I noticed it's just a skull floating there and the jaw moving. No facial expressions because it's just a skull, and while he looked quite awesome, it didn't convey anger or determination the way an actor's face would.

So my question is... would he appear better if the skull had more defined features than just a regular human skull, and what if the bone warped/changed to reflect him being pissed off and what not? I understand how this goes against how real bone works, a jawbone moves only a few directions and it's the lips/mouth that give a defining emotion. I scanned through a lot of the GR comics I have... and low n' behold, the artists do draw the eye sockets of his skull wider in certain instances, his mouth turned up into a snarl at times.

I wonder if they're going to do this later on? The long door-sized poster of him has the skull looking much meaner and elongated than a normal skull, the brow tilted forward and such. I was hoping to see the glowing red flames as pupils, directing his sight as well. I see them in the posters, but not on the clips.

 

[InVictus]

In the second clip actually little red flame pupils are visible...
The problem with too much animated bone is that it could end like Scorpion in Mortal Kombat movie, which looked very cartonish when his skull got angry...
There are ways to make a skull "angry" even withouth animating it...by positioning it correctly...(example, the T-800 skull)
Clayton Crane, to example, draws GR with exagerated "open" eye sockets as in everlasting surprise...but it works somehow... It really depends on the GR general body language, position, lightning etcc...

 

[Mr Nick]

I've always hated overly-stylised drawings of Ghost Rider. How can you go wrong with a flaming skull? It looks scary and cool as is. There's no need to narrow the eyes to a ridiculous degree or warp anything. They did that with The Mummy and it looked like he was made out of living plasticine rather than bone.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I love the look in the movie. Love it.

 

[Uncanny Orb]

I don't think having the skull frown and what not is going to happen and I'm glad for that. Instead they are using the flames to show emotion. Heres what MSJ said in an interview.

"And being able to use fire as a way to give expression, which you can't with a skull. You take the shadows of the fire and the way the fire moves to give expressions and moods, which is really great because you can't get that in the comic. You can see it change before your eyes.

"When Ghost Rider's angry, he'll go white-hot with flame. When he gets sad, it will literally go blue. There's a way you can use the fire as an extension of his personality."

 

[InVictus]

The point is: if it's animated, it doesn't seems a skull... a skull is, by definition a dead thing,
Ghost Rider= skull on fire, not a "face" on fire...
Even Spawn eyes, although well done, seemed cartonish/out of place in a movie...

 

[Jin Saotome]

So even tho the skull changed shape sometimes in the comics, movie-wise it's a no-no, gotcha.

Er... what about Blackheart who has no face?

 

[superkong 500]

So even tho the skull changed shape sometimes in the comics, movie-wise it's a no-no, gotcha.

Er... what about Blackheart who has no face?

well black heart does have a face but not a mouth, I think they should leave tha like that i nthe movies just express his emossions through his eyes which should be red btw oh and his tentacles -like hair should move as well.