Discussion: Canadian Politics

[Axl Van Sixx]

After starting different threads on Canadian issues, which tend to get only a few replies, I've decided it would be more convenient to create a single thread dedicated to the discussion of Canadian news and politics.

The big event in Canada right now, IMO, is the Quebec student strike. Post-secondary students from all across the province have been protesting for 3 months now against the planned tuition hikes of Jean Charest's Liberal government. There has been massive mobilization in the streets, with rallies drawing hundreds of thousands of people.

Right-wing critics like to harp on the fact that Quebec students already enjoy the lowest tuition in Canada, and will continue to do so even after the proposed hikes. But I think this is a matter of principle. Rather than having Quebec students pay more, all the provinces should be making higher education more accessible to all, en route to an ultimate goal of free education (as they have in France).

The police have responded with violence. About a month ago a student was hit in the face with a tear gas canister and lost an eye. Now another student has been put in a coma after getting shot in the face and doctors expect him to die:

Workers and students need to mobilize for a 24-hour general strike to bring down Charest! The government's violent repression of its own people cannot go unanswered.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

The Education Minister in Quebec resigned last week. Next up: Charest!

Governments in Quebec are rapidly passing draconian laws to crack down on the protesters, including a law banning masks at demonstrations (mirroring Harper's federal law banning masks at riots) and requiring any public gathering of more than 10 people to register with the police first. This assault on free speech once more demonstrates the touching commitment of our ruling class to "freedom" and "democracy".

 

[KevanG]

Just curious for my fellow Canadians. Who ye be voting for in the federal elections, if anyone?

 

[Pink Ranger]

I haven't decided yet, but I will definitely vote, even if it's for the Pirate Party (aar!).

The biggest issue for me is Bill C51; I am very much opposed to that, and the Conservatives and the Liberals both supported it. That leaves the NDP, but seriously, if they form government, who in that gaggle of airheaded kids and old-school Marxists is going to be our Finance Minister? Who's our Foreign Affairs Minister in that group?

If the niqab issue ends up being a meaningful driver of votes to the Conservatives or Bloc Quebecois, I will be very, very disappointed in this country.

 

[DKDetective]

I am definitely voting Liberal. I am not a fan of Bill C51 either, but otherwise the Liberals best align with my stance on most issues. I am a little uncertain of Trudeau's inexperience and I think Mulcair is a more competent potential PM, but like Pink Ranger, I am worried about the depth of talent in the NDP to fill his cabinet. I am also voting strategically in that polls indicate that the Liberal candidate in my riding has the best chance to unseat the Conservative incumbent. All I know is that I find the Conservatives' positions on issues of criminal law, national security, foreign affairs, and multiculturalism offensive and "barbaric" to use their own term against them. They have set us back as a society.

 

[Pink Ranger]

This is going to sound crazy, but if Mulcair becomes Prime Minister, we might have the first time in Canadian history when a sitting Prime Minister has to cross the floor to join another party.

In the event of an official or unofficial NDP-Liberal coalition, the hardcore socialists in the NDP will not like governing from the centre, and will try to undermine PM Mulcair at every turn. Eventually, Mulcair and a core of centrist New Democrats will break off and join the Liberals, kind of like the Harper-McKay coalition, with Justin Trudeau in the role of Peter McKay. Maybe even enough to create a majority Liberal government under PM Mulcair.

If you think this is science fiction, remember that this happened at the municipal level in Vancouver. After years of conservative dominance, the leftists finally got sweeping control of the municipal government, from the Mayor to council to school and parks board. But even then, the idealogues and the pragmatists could not get along, and eventually the pragmatists, which included the Mayor, left to form their own party.

 

[KevanG]

I'm voting Liberal this time. Harper can go **** himself. I detest a lot of what he's done the past years he's been in office and I want him gone quick. I was going to vote NDP until I saw they favored Quebec in a lot of things and since I live in NB, most of us have the opinion of "**** Quebec".

Justin has a good amount of experience, despite the attack ads and with his legacy he has a lot of people behind him who know what they're doing to make up for any shortcomings. Besides a few things I find the Liberals are the best of the three since no other party is really going to have a chance besides them.

But seriously, **** Harper.

 

[Taarna]

I'm American. I want to start out by saying the Canadian people are very nice. I consider Canada to be good neighbors, and if disaster should strike your nation, I along with other Americans would offer some aid.

As for your politics, Canada has too many treasonous types. The Quebec Bloc is terrible. Half of Quebec wants to be their own nation. When you have a political party this size playing spoiler, things are difficult. When you have a minority government, things are also difficult.

I think the average citizen is taxed too much. That should change. And the nation has too many defensive knee jerk reactions when something goes wrong.

More political power to the Provinces might be a good thing.

I think Harper is your best choice and will win again.

 

[DKDetective]

I'm voting Liberal this time. Harper can go **** himself. I detest a lot of what he's done the past years he's been in office and I want him gone quick. I was going to vote NDP until I saw they favored Quebec in a lot of things and since I live in NB, most of us have the opinion of "**** Quebec".

Justin has a good amount of experience, despite the attack ads and with his legacy he has a lot of people behind him who know what they're doing to make up for any shortcomings. Besides a few things I find the Liberals are the best of the three since no other party is really going to have a chance besides them.

But seriously, **** Harper.

http://http://anyonebutharper.net/

Great website that gives you an idea of which party to vote for, if you want to get rid of your local Reform... cough... Conservative Party MP.

This is going to sound crazy, but if Mulcair becomes Prime Minister, we might have the first time in Canadian history when a sitting Prime Minister has to cross the floor to join another party.

In the event of an official or unofficial NDP-Liberal coalition, the hardcore socialists in the NDP will not like governing from the centre, and will try to undermine PM Mulcair at every turn. Eventually, Mulcair and a core of centrist New Democrats will break off and join the Liberals, kind of like the Harper-McKay coalition, with Justin Trudeau in the role of Peter McKay. Maybe even enough to create a majority Liberal government under PM Mulcair.

If you think this is science fiction, remember that this happened at the municipal level in Vancouver. After years of conservative dominance, the leftists finally got sweeping control of the municipal government, from the Mayor to council to school and parks board. But even then, the idealogues and the pragmatists could not get along, and eventually the pragmatists, which included the Mayor, left to form their own party.

I don't think municipal politics are a good indicator of what could happen at the federal level. Provincial politics aren't even that great of an indicator. You're in Toronto, you know that a Rob Ford-type scenario can't happen nationally. (****, nevermind, Trump is maybe proving me wrong on that point) But yeah, I don't know why Mulcair went NDP when he went federal as he is really trying to pull the party to the centre. He seems a better fit for the Liberals. If he had stayed Liberal and contested Trudeau for the leadership, we would probably be looking at a Liberal majority in this election.

 

[KevanG]

I think Harper is your best choice and will win again.

Uh-hunh. Yeah, no.

He's pretty much everything that is against what Canadians like in Canada. He's against helping other countries which has brought our global standing way down and no one likes us any more and considers us useless. He's been a major climate change denier and science suppressor. He's made huge deals with countries that have **** Human Rights in their own countries. Recently with the Syrian refugee crisis we were supposed to take thousands if refugees and they were denied and even the ones who were pre-approved were put on hold for weeks now because he doesn't like 'scary foreigners' coming into the country.

Harper is an asshat and I really hope he doesn't get back in.

 

[Taarna]

Uh-hunh. Yeah, no.

He's pretty much everything that is against what Canadians like in Canada. He's against helping other countries which has brought our global standing way down and no one likes us any more and considers us useless. He's been a major climate change denier and science suppressor. He's made huge deals with countries that have **** Human Rights in their own countries. Recently with the Syrian refugee crisis we were supposed to take thousands if refugees and they were denied and even the ones who were pre-approved were put on hold for weeks now because he doesn't like 'scary foreigners' coming into the country.

Harper is an asshat and I really hope he doesn't get back in.

If you want ISIS in your nation, take the 1,000's of refugees and you'll get them.

Hope is not a strategy. Harper will win thanks to two democratic parties and the spoiler in the Quebec bloc.

And the fact that the people do not elect the top guy. Those they elect pick him.

Until then, use your oil and gas. Drill. Canada can be a richer. See what Norway did. Now their all well off.

 

[KevanG]

You really know nothing about Canada, do you?

In Alberta we've had a rash of people who could be considered terrorists, along with certain areas of Calgary where it has been found to have people actively trying to convert young immigrants or children of recent immigrants. We have them all over the country. We monitor the likely ones and try to stop people from getting indoctrinated. We're not perfect but despite a few things happening, like the shooting on Parliament hill, we've managed not to have a major attack like 9/11.

We've taken refugees before from nations that have terrorists. We should continue doing so. It's a human thing to do. Being the type of person to deny help to tens of thousands because a few might be terrorists, despite not having any idea who might or might not be, is insane and paranoid to the extreme.

People are literally begging for help and traveling on foot for hundreds of miles. They have lost everything. You think that they'd turn on a country that would offer them help, shelter and a safe place to bring up their children? Will there be a few people who could turn out to be terrorists? Sure but to deny them all a safe place to live because of a potential few is crazy. It's like refusing to eat food when starving because you're not sure that there isn't any poison in it despite dozens of others around you eating without worry.

Also, **** Harper.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Taarna, there will always be some risk. I don't know **** about Canada and don't pretend to. The other day someone asked me – since I am fairly well traveled – what the capital of Canada is. And it took me a full minute to remember it was Ottawa. I can tell you the capital of every European country and most African countries.

But I know America. In America we have shootings daily. All American people raised from birth to believe in Jesus Christ suddenly snap and shoot a dozen people dead for no sane reason.

So, to me then this hysteria, that out of 7 million refugees, some might be terrorists so we can't possibly allow any to immigrate is stupid. There are 30,000 ISIS fighters. Not even that entire number is Syrian. 7,000,000 Syrian refugees. How many do you think infiltrated Syrian refugee camps? Look at the numbers.

And we screen them. Thoroughly. So do the Canadians.

We're going to let 7 million people rot because you can't do math?

 

[DKDetective]

I'm American. I want to start out by saying the Canadian people are very nice. I consider Canada to be good neighbors, and if disaster should strike your nation, I along with other Americans would offer some aid.

As for your politics, Canada has too many treasonous types. The Quebec Bloc is terrible. Half of Quebec wants to be their own nation. When you have a political party this size playing spoiler, things are difficult. When you have a minority government, things are also difficult.

I think the average citizen is taxed too much. That should change. And the nation has too many defensive knee jerk reactions when something goes wrong.

More political power to the Provinces might be a good thing.

I think Harper is your best choice and will win again.

Ummm, no to all of this. We don't want to be like America, we never have. That is why we didn't join the American Revolution and American Loyalists resettled in Canada.

We generally like our taxes. Most Canadians recognize that they pay for important social services. With the exception of the recent blip of Harper's American influenced conservatism, which comes out of Alberta, Canadian conservatism has been distinctively more communal and collectivist than American conservatism, it's called the Red Tory tradition. It was a Conservative PM that gave us universal health care just so you know.

Also, our Constitution was specially drafted to give more power to the Federal Government to avoid the regional schisms that dominate American politics and create gridlock and which gave you a Civil War. It has worked well for us so far. We haven't had brothers kill each in a widespread civil war unlike some countries.

And why would we want to be more like America? The only thing you have over us is being a Superpower, which we can never be, being a lowly populated northern country. Despite that we have less poverty, a stronger middle-class, higher home ownership, far less crime, a better educated populace, and far less internal strife. Yes, we have Quebec separatists, but unlike yours, our separatists have been committed to peaceful and democratic achievement of their goal for 40 years, with only a short period of terrorist activity by some radicals in the early 70s, which many scholars have attributed to our history of communitarian institutions and culture of respect for government institutions. I'm proud of differences from the US as I believe as your neighbour we have used your mistakes to do things better.

 

[TheLordMarbury]

Not Canadian (actually Swedish), but if I lived and could vote in Canada as a social democrat I would probably go for the NDP. Mulcair easily seems like the most qualified to be PM out of him and Trudeau, although the problem is how utterly lacklustre the NDP has been so far. But I do see that the issues they are faced with are difficult; the Liberals can easily tack left during the campaign to seem like the agents of change and leaders of a progressive majority, while if the NDP does the same people get the impression that they're radical socialists who want to nationalize every Tim Horton's. And that's why you end up with this incredibly dull and lacklustre NDP which constantly hugs the centre while seeming scared of saying anything controversial at all, aside from the niqab issue where it was good to see them speak out in a principled manner.

The biggest issue for me is Bill C51; I am very much opposed to that, and the Conservatives and the Liberals both supported it. That leaves the NDP, but seriously, if they form government, who in that gaggle of airheaded kids and old-school Marxists is going to be our Finance Minister? Who's our Foreign Affairs Minister in that group?

Their current finance critic is Nathan Cullen, MP for Skeena–Bulkley Valley so he would be a likely choice in the event of an NDP victory. Although there has been some talk about former Saskatchewan Finance Minister Andrew Thomson getting the job if he manages to defeat Joe Oliver in his riding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Cullen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Thomson_(Canadian_politician)

Foreign Affairs seems more uncertain, although Paul Dewar MP has shadowed the role under both Mulcair and Layton.

 

[Taarna]

Taarna, there will always be some risk. I don't know **** about Canada and don't pretend to. The other day someone asked me – since I am fairly well traveled – what the capital of Canada is. And it took me a full minute to remember it was Ottawa. I can tell you the capital of every European country and most African countries.

But I know America. In America we have shootings daily. All American people raised from birth to believe in Jesus Christ suddenly snap and shoot a dozen people dead for no sane reason.

So, to me then this hysteria, that out of 7 million refugees, some might be terrorists so we can't possibly allow any to immigrate is stupid. There are 30,000 ISIS fighters. Not even that entire number is Syrian. 7,000,000 Syrian refugees. How many do you think infiltrated Syrian refugee camps? Look at the numbers.

And we screen them. Thoroughly. So do the Canadians.

We're going to let 7 million people rot because you can't do math?

I have known the capital of Canada for years, and their system of minority governmental rule, which is the reason why Harper is on top. Like I said you have two democratic groups and a spoiler type in the Qubec bloc.

There have been refugee situations before. By the the end of 2014, there were 19.5 million refugees worldwide (Wiki source ).

But the refugees from Syria has a deadly element. Some are ISIS. Let's suppose 5% are ISIS or will be converted to ISIS, and Canada took in 10,000 people. This would mean 500 people are now inside the nation with ill will intentions. WAY TOO MUCH of a risk. ISIS will act.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Their current finance critic is Nathan Cullen, MP for Skeena–Bulkley Valley so he would be a likely choice in the event of an NDP victory. Although there has been some talk about former Saskatchewan Finance Minister Andrew Thomson getting the job if he manages to defeat Joe Oliver in his riding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Cullen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Thomson_(Canadian_politician)

Foreign Affairs seems more uncertain, although Paul Dewar MP has shadowed the role under both Mulcair and Layton.

Holy crap, you certainly know a lot about Canadian politics. I'd like to see Kennedy Stewart from British Columbia become foreign affairs minister should the NDP form government. I just don't see a ton of what Americans call "bench strength" in that caucus, and how much they will be sabotaged by their own MPs who are too left wing to effectively govern.

 

[Taarna]

Ummm, no to all of this. We don't want to be like America, we never have. That is why we didn't join the American Revolution and American Loyalists resettled in Canada.

We generally like our taxes. Most Canadians recognize that they pay for important social services. With the exception of the recent blip of Harper's American influenced conservatism, which comes out of Alberta, Canadian conservatism has been distinctively more communal and collectivist than American conservatism, it's called the Red Tory tradition. It was a Conservative PM that gave us universal health care just so you know.

Also, our Constitution was specially drafted to give more power to the Federal Government to avoid the regional schisms that dominate American politics and create gridlock and which gave you a Civil War. It has worked well for us so far. We haven't had brothers kill each in a widespread civil war unlike some countries.

And why would we want to be more like America? The only thing you have over us is being a Superpower, which we can never be, being a lowly populated northern country. Despite that we have less poverty, a stronger middle-class, higher home ownership, far less crime, a better educated populace, and far less internal strife. Yes, we have Quebec separatists, but unlike yours, our separatists have been committed to peaceful and democratic achievement of their goal for 40 years, with only a short period of terrorist activity by some radicals in the early 70s, which many scholars have attributed to our history of communitarian institutions and culture of respect for government institutions. I'm proud of differences from the US as I believe as your neighbour we have used your mistakes to do things better.

Every Canadian who relocated to the USA said their taxes where way too high. This is why Americans think they are cheap. But I understand why.

You're proud of your health care? Don’t many Canadians have private health care insurance? I think so. Because your system is a little tardy when you need help. Also, Don't you lack sexual harassment laws on par with the USA?

I think you should be different than the USA.

Just do not be fooled. Canada's long and complex relationship with the United States has had a significant impact on its economy and culture.

" Despite that we have less poverty, a stronger middle-class, higher home ownership, far less crime, a better educated populace, and far less internal strife. "

I do not disagree there, however homes are very costly in Canada. At least they are in the Toronto area. As for crime and education, the USA has an underclass of minorities and illegals ( greater than your entire population ) that bring the national average down. Many can better themselves if they are able bodied and want a better life but to not.

A nations greatness is best defined by its accomplishments on the world stage, its GDP, # of people want to live there / get educated there. It would be unfair to compare Canada to the USA in this regard.

 

[KevanG]

Tomorrows the big day!

 

[chamber-music]

John Oliver ripped into Stephen Harper last night

 

[Pink Ranger]

All Canadians on the Hype; make sure you vote. The outcome of the Blue Jays game will be unaffected by whether or not you watch it, but the outcome of your government will be affected by whether or not you show up today.

 

[KevanG]

I'm heading out sometime in the next hour before work.

Edit: Just got back. I cast my vote.

 

[Gee]

Voted during the advanced voting days!

 

[DKDetective]

Tonight is awesome! Liberals killing it, Blue Jays winning, and a new Star Wars trailer!

 

[Pink Ranger]

Tonight is awesome! Liberals killing it, Blue Jays winning, and a new Star Wars trailer!

Trudeau's kids are whacking each other with plastic lightsabers, so you know where their main interest lies.