Discussion: Gay Rights XVI - Part 5

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]499383[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]485985[/split]

 

[CaptainWagner]

So, I read somewhere that Huckabee himself is planning on hosting a rally in support of Davis.

I want to feel sorry for this poor idiot, but I just can't . It's obvious she's just out for attention, if she really felt that she was morally obligated not to comply with the law, she should have stepped down, instead of trying to keep the best of both worlds.

 

[Pink Ranger]

So, I read somewhere that Huckabee himself is planning on hosting a rally in support of Davis.

I want to feel sorry for this poor idiot, but I just can't . It's obvious she's just out for attention, if she really felt that she was morally obligated not to comply with the law, she should have stepped down, instead of trying to keep the best of both worlds.

The last time Huckabee went to bat for someone being imprisoned, it didn't work out so well.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Mike Huckabee: Kim Davis Only Has to Uphold the Law 'If It's Right'

In his continuing bid to demonstrate his weak grasp on the American branches of government and generally how we do things around here, Mike Huckabee is defending anti-gay, marriage license-denying county clerk Kim Davis, saying she only needs to uphold the law “if it’s right” and saying she’s “fighting judicial tyranny” by ignoring the Supreme Court.

Davis, the Rowan County clerk who maintains that she has a direct hotline to God and thus doesn’t have to listen to SCOTUS when it says same-sex marriage is legal, remains jailed for contempt of court in Grayson, Kentucky. While her lawyer goes around comparing her to a Jew living in Nazi Germany, Huckabee has, not surprisingly, jumped with both feet on her bandwagon. He’s circulating a petition calling for her release and planning a rally for tomorrow, September 8, outside the detention center where she’s being held.

In the meantime, he told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week that Davis is basically just like an anti-slavery abolitionist and besides, gay marriage is still illegal in Kentucky. (It’s not. It’s really, really not. The f***in’ Supremacy Clause, how does it work?) From their brain-twisting conversation:

HUCKABEE: George, can you cite for me what statute Kim Davis would be required follow in order to issue a same-sex marriage license in Kentucky when her state specifically says, by 75 percent of the voters, that marriage means one man, one woman? Can you cite the statute at the federal or state level that she’s supposed to follow? Even the very form that she fills out specifically lists a male and a female. Does she have the authority just to scratch that out and create her own?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Doesn’t she have to the duty to obey a legal order from the court?

HUCKABEE: Well, you obey it if it’s right. So I go back to my question. Is slavery the law of the land? Should it have been the law of the land because Dred Scott said so? Was that a correct decision? Should the courts have been irrevocably followed on that? Should Lincoln have been put in jail? Because he ignored it.​

As Stephanopoulos gazed on in bafflement, Huckabee added, with a straight face, “ We either are a people of government, a people of law, and we are a nation of the people, or we are a nation under the power of the Supreme Court.”

But Huckabee is also steamed that San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom wasn’t jailed when he performed same-sex marriages in 2004, in violation of what was then state and federal law, or when he declared San Francisco a sanctuary city for undocumented immigrants. Newsom pointed out that once a court ordered him to stop, he did, calling Huckabee’s memory of the San Francisco weddings “dead wrong.”

The two were busily sniping at each other on Twitter for most of yesterday.

In Huckabee’s reading, then, it’s fine to violate the law when it affronts your conscience, but only if your conscience is the kind that thinks gay marriage is wrong. Got it.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/mike-huckabee-kim-davis-only-has-to-uphold-the-law-if-1729160020

It's idiots like this thaat make me hate the GOP w/ a burning passion

 

[Snow Queen]

Really? First Rosa Parks and segregation, now Lincoln and slavery? Are you kidding me?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

GOP thinking: As long as I'm forcing Christianity on you it's fine but God forbid if anyone else tries to force their religion on us!

 

[Marvolo]

I'd like to backhand that geriatric hypocritical smug pr*ck.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Really? First Rosa Parks and segregation, now Lincoln and slavery? Are you kidding me?

Inclusion is the new racism. Apparently wanting to include more people is now not right. Turning marriage, a legally binding agreement, into a religious argument is so false. Do all these religious hypocrites who get divorced go to their church? No, they go to the government.

 

[Majik1387]

 

[Thundercrack85]

Huckabee is just desperate to stay relevant.

 

[Schlosser85]

Huckabee is no Christian. He's a charlatan who laughs sll the way to the bank.

 

[Schlosser85]

Now I see Huckabee is leading an "I'm with Kim" rally for "liberty" in Kentucky.

This guy is such a charlatan. He's disgusting, and Christians should denounce him and call him out.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Really? First Rosa Parks and segregation, now Lincoln and slavery? Are you kidding me?

If we're looking for historical examples, a more relevent choice would be "George Wallace standing in the schoolhouse door".

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Now I see Huckabee is leading an "I'm with Kim" rally for "liberty" in Kentucky.

This guy is such a charlatan. He's disgusting, and Christians should denounce him and call him out.

He's not different from any of the televangelists. He's just figured out another way to get money and fame from the masses.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Let's get one thing straight here, even if Kim Davis had an impeccable marriage record herself her position would still be stupid. Her being a hypocrite is fun to talk about but it matters little in the grand scheme of things. Just thought I'd get that off of my chest.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Let's get one thing straight here, even if Kim Davis had an impeccable marriage record herself her position would still be stupid. Her being a hypocrite is fun to talk about but it matters little in the grand scheme of things. Just thought I'd get that off of my chest.

To play Devil's Advocate... what has she been a hypocrite about? Getting divorced 3 times? That's allowed by "God" according to her church. Hell, the Pope just made it easier for Catholics to do it. She still stands by her belief that a marriage is between a man and a woman solely and until it comes out that she was married to Caitlyn...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

To play Devil's Advocate... what has she been a hypocrite about? Getting divorced 3 times? That's allowed by "God" according to her church. Hell, the Pope just made it easier for Catholics to do it. She still stands by her belief that a marriage is between a man and a woman solely and until it comes out that she was married to Caitlyn...

well... she also had an affair..

while married to her first husband, she slept with who would be her third husband... became pregnant, divorced, married 2nd husband, had the kids... then divorced that husband and finally married the baby daddy, husband #3.. there's no way that's all bionically sound.

plus... she also (probably unknown to her) issued a marriage license for a Transgender person and a Pan-sexual couple. sooo there's that.

 

[Majik1387]

To play Devil's Advocate... what has she been a hypocrite about? Getting divorced 3 times? That's allowed by "God" according to her church. Hell, the Pope just made it easier for Catholics to do it. She still stands by her belief that a marriage is between a man and a woman solely and until it comes out that she was married to Caitlyn...

Which church are you referring to? The church that says she's not a member?

Caitlyn?

 

[Pink Ranger]

Well, it looks like Kim Davis is backtracking now and is actually offering a reasonable compromise to avoid becoming a jailbird.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

well... she also had an affair..

while married to her first husband, she slept with who would be her third husband... became pregnant, divorced, married 2nd husband, had the kids... then divorced that husband and finally married the baby daddy, husband #3.. there's no way that's all bionically sound.

plus... she also (probably unknown to her) issued a marriage license for a Transgender person and a Pan-sexual couple. sooo there's that.

There are three commandments in the minds of many of these "Christians"

Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not kill(abortion falls under this for them)
Thou shalt not be gay

Why out of all the sins in the Bible not listed in the Ten Commandments do they pick on homosexuality so much, I have no idea.

 

[Marvolo]

To play Devil's Advocate... what has she been a hypocrite about? Getting divorced 3 times? That's allowed by "God" according to her church. Hell, the Pope just made it easier for Catholics to do it. She still stands by her belief that a marriage is between a man and a woman solely and until it comes out that she was married to Caitlyn...

I posted this in the last Gay Rights thread, but Ill repost here for your benefit:

You're free to divorce in some circumstances, but whether that means you can remarry isn't made clear in the Bible and it's something that's debated amongst Christians. Here is the Catholic view:

The Pharisees questioned Jesus when he taught on the permanence of marriage:

Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?" He answered, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so." (Matt. 19:3–8; cf. Mark 10:2–9; Luke 16:18)

Thus, Jesus re-established the permanence of marriage among his followers. He raised Christian marriage to the level of a sacrament and taught that sacramental marriages cannot be dissolved through divorce. This was part of Jesus’ fulfillment (or perfection) of the Old Law of which he said, "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matt. 5:17).

An Exception to the Rule?

Some Christians hold that Jesus made an exception to the rule of permanence of marriage when he said that "whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery" (Matt. 19:9, emphasis added; cf. Matt. 5:31–32.) The word translated as "unchastity" here is the Greek word porneia (from which the word pornography is derived) and its literal meaning is debated among Scripture scholars. Full treatment of this topic is beyond the scope of this article, but suffice it to say here that Jesus’ and Paul’s constant and forceful teaching about the permanence of sacramental marriage as recorded elsewhere in Scripture makes it clear that Jesus was not making an exception in the case of valid, sacramental marriages. The constant teaching of the Catholic Church attests to this as well.

It is important to note that in Jesus’ teaching about marriage and divorce, his concern was with the presumption that divorce actually ends a sacramental marriage and enables the spouses to remarry. He said to his disciples, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11–12). But divorce that does not presume to end a sacramental marriage (e.g., divorce intended only to legally separate the spouses) is not necessarily evil.

Paul’s teaching agrees with this: "To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife" (1 Cor. 7:10–11). Paul understood that divorce is a terrible thing, yet it is sometimes a reality. Even so, divorce does not end a sacramental marriage.

The Catholic Church still today understands that separation and even civil divorce that does not presume to end a sacramental marriage is sometimes necessary (e.g., in the case of an abusive spouse). But such actions simply cannot dissolve the marital bond or free the spouses to marry others. TheCatechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense. (CCC 2383)

That being said, the Church clearly teaches that divorce does not—indeed cannot—end sacramental marriage. "A ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death" (Code of Canon Law 1141). Only death dissolves a sacramental marriage.

Paul’s writings agree:

Do you not know, brethren—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only during his life? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning the husband. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. (Rom. 7:1–3)

No matter how you slice it, Kim Davis is being a hypocrite. I doubt all three of her husbands were unchaste. And even if they were all unchaste, Jesus never said it was ok to remarry. But she doesnt care about violating that law of God, because she wanted that D. But if a gay person loves someone and wants to be married and have sex with that person well thats just too far for Kimmy.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

She walked out of jail like she won something blaring Eye of the goddamn Tiger.

W. T. F.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

This straight white Christian desires so strongly to be an oppressed minority.

 

[Marvolo]

White straight american christians dont have the first clue what its like to be an oppressed minority. They need to go live in Syria or Isis controlled ares in the Middle East or somewhere that Christians are actually being oppressed. The early cheistians that had to hide their churches from the roman government would take one look at these spoiled modern american christians and spit on the ground. Thousands of churches some within a mile or less of each other. Freedom to worship at any church they please any day of the week any hour of the day. But yeah they are soooo oppressed.