Discussion: Racism - Part 4

Thread Manager · Jul 8, 2018

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]531921[/split]

Thread Manager · Jul 8, 2018

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]521059[/split]

DarthSkywalker · Jul 8, 2018

DeadPresident said: ↑

Sure - how about my two years of language, gender, and sexuality, critical linguistics, sociolinguistics, and critical discourse analysis course where it never popped up? I was taught primarily about how cis-gendered, heteronormative, caucasian males were the proverbial cancer eroding everyone else's chances at prosperity.

I don't remember this Miss Japan thing, but I'm not stateside which might influence the chances that I would've seen it.

If you're completely objective and take your own personal investment in this way, wouldn't you agree that negative white -> black interactions get a skewed amount of air time? I'm not denying all the things posted in this thread occur, and that they occur far more than they normatively should, but wouldn't you say considering all the issues in the USA that this specific category seems to get a questionable amount of focus? Especially considering Hispanics are a larger group in the US population.

It just seems counter-productive to have an environment where the media creates a hysterical panic that leads people to believe 'the USA is the most racist country in the world', that doesn't help the conversation nor does it move in a direction where race relations improve, IMO.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-her-extra-motivation/?utm_term=.5130b71c961e

Ariana Miyamoto typically maintains the sort of deferential politeness youd expect from a beauty contestant in a country that embraces formality.

And yet, the biracial beauty queen who was crowned Miss Universe Japan in March and then immediately criticized for not being Japanese enough has signaled her willingness to fight back against racism and other traditional attitudes that have led to criticism and even discrimination in the wake of her selection.

In an interview with Agence France Presse, a newly assertive Miyamoto the daughter of a Japanese woman and an African American man referred to herself as stubborn and said she intends to use her burgeoning fame to break down antiquated cultural barriers.

I was prepared for the criticism, the 21-year-old model told AFP. Id be lying to say it didnt hurt at all. Im Japanese I stand up and bow when I answer the phone. But that criticism did give me extra motivation.

The criticism stems from the fact that in Japan, Miyamoto is known as hafu (or haafu) a word that refers to multiracial or multiethnic people who are half-Japanese. And there is a pervasive feeling in Japan, which is considered one of the most homogeneous places on Earth, that mixed-race people are not fully Japanese, according to NBC News.

Its possible that some conservative people might feel Ariana Miyamoto doesnt fit the traditional Japanese image to represent the country, Yoko Haruka, a psychologist who makes regular appearances on Japanese TV, told AFP.

Its just the shock of the new. But she certainly has the chance to be a pioneer, and its an excellent opportunity for Japan to become more globally aware.

The stigma of being biracial in Japan can be so great that it leads some people like a close mixed-race friend of Miyamotos to take their own lives. Though Miyamoto was bullied growing up in the port town of Sasebo in Nagasaki prefecture, she told AFP that it was her friends suicide that ultimately convinced her to enter the Miss Universe Japan contest.

I didnt feel any added pressure, because the reason I took part in the pageant was my friends death, she said. My goal was to raise awareness of racial discrimination. Now I have a great platform to deliver that message as the first black Miss Universe Japan. Its always hard to be the first, so in that respect what Naomi Campbell did was really amazing.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37283518

A half-Indian woman has been crowned Miss World Japan, the second year in a row a biracial person has won a beauty pageant in the country.

Priyanka Yoshikawa, 22 and who also has an elephant training licence, said she would use her win to "change perceptions".

Last year, Ariana Miyamoto was the first mixed-race person to win the Miss Universe pageant.

Critics complained then that a "pure" Japanese should have won.

Only about 3% of babies born every year in Japan are biracial, or "hafu", the Japanese word for half.

...

A few years ago, a woman of Indian descent, Nina Davuluri, faced Twitter abuse after being crowned Miss America. Some called her an "Arab", some a "terrorist", and some an "Arab terrorist". Indians, in large numbers, came to her defence.

Now, Ms Yoshikawa is being criticised for having an Indian father and some Indians have taken to social media to advise the Japanese to "get over it". One Twitter user said she won because she "must have deserved it" while another said "after Gautam Buddha, Ms Yoshikawa is the only Indian to make it big in Japan".

In Ms Yoshikawa's case - as in Ms Davuluri's before her - the biggest complaint seems to be the "lack of purity". But some are wondering whether this debate over purity has any relevance in today's globalised world.

As one Twitter user said: "Talent cannot be controlled or ruled by caste, colour, gender or country of origin."
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Mad Ones · Jul 8, 2018

RockSP said: ↑

Ah. So another mixed race controversial pageant winner that I was unaware of, then. Heh. I thought you were talking about Ariana Miyamoto.
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What a disturbing trend. Thanks Darth for the details.

DeadPresident said: ↑

I don't think you're understanding the new approach to racism, Darth, racism = perpetrated by whites. That is the new, commonly accepted meaning for the word. You're using an outdated model, there is no 'racism is based on race', there is only 'racism is based on white people disliking black people and using their power to mistreat them'.
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If you have the sort of training you say you do, your purposefully skewed definition of racism in an attempt to mock the people who have been fighting for decades to incorporate power-dynamics as part of the word's definition is irresponsible. Power, whether cultural, socio-economic, or representative, is what makes racism systemic, yes, but it is not limited to white people, which is why racism in Canada, Europe, China, Japan, Korea, Brazil and other places does get talked about in detail. In North America, people like Trump in terms of race and class have that power.

Sithborg · Jul 8, 2018

The thing to remember, that with Japan, is that it is extremely not diverse.

Detective Conan · Jul 8, 2018

This reminds me of a similar case in China years ago

[YT]Y2XAWcs7HbM[/YT]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/01/lou-jing-chinese-talent-show

Docker2.0 · Jul 8, 2018

Detective Conan said: ↑

This reminds me of a similar case in China years ago

[YT]Y2XAWcs7HbM[/YT]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/01/lou-jing-chinese-talent-show
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That's why I honestly believe that blacks are the real Jews, scattered through out the world and persecuted for the dumbest of reasons. That verse in Revelations about Jesus saying about them saying they are Jews and are not sticks out. Seems like blacks get it worldwide and there is no reason given.

Holiday · Jul 8, 2018

...

Ahem...

Yeah, because it's only false reports about police misconduct or harassment that few White Americans would put up with if they were subject to it regularly... RIGHT?

[YT]m63qcaubuCU[/YT]

A store owner calls the police after he watches a man who he thinks is casing his store. An officer responds to the call because that's his job, makes contact and the man stopped acts like a d***. I don't see anything in that short video showing the officer doing a poor job.

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This on the other hand, was a poor stop and the officer was later reprimanded for it.

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I'm not sure how this incident fits with the other two, it's obviously more severe, but it came up in a discussion a couple months back and was pointed out then that the officer involved, Jonathan Aledda, was charged with attempted manslaughter.

Before the usual suspects show up... No, not every interactions between law enforcement and people of color end in tragedy. No, not every time a law enforcement officer uses force, even deadly force against suspects that are citizens of color is it unwarranted or unjustified. It's a terribly difficult job with terrible weight which will always include the responsibility to use violence. Such is the nature of the job. However it's frankly disingenuous to imply (and don't piss in my ears and tell me it's rain that's what the quoted post is about) that the body cameras will only be useful to showcase false allegations against police as if there aren't already consequences for such actions within the legal system.
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Nobody said or implied that. Also, what consequences? Because in the incidents that have made news in recent months, legally there have not been any.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/05/25/no-additional-charges-woman-made-up-story-trooper-sex-assault/

https://www.robesonian.com/news/111164/video-catches-boycott-past-telling-lie

https://wtvr.com/2018/05/07/body-cam-footage-released-after-racism-accusations-go-viral/

I'm not sure what police would charge these people with either. It's more of a matter for civil court I would think. Also, I'm curious if any of these people have lost their jobs over their outrageous lies.

How about maybe body cams will also be useful in keeping individuals in law enforcement from abusing their authority and harassing citizens? Because, and this always floors me that the people that cry so loudly about this stuff are "Conservative/Libertarian/Limited Government" types but... The treatment of your fellow citizens of color in this country? It's a canary in the coal mine for the general, actual governmental overreach and abuse that actually can and does affect real people in the real world directly. Too many in law enforcement have gotten away with abuse and harassment which you all justify and hand wave. But as the media show REGULARLY these days, equality is indeed coming... Only it's now "White" American citizens as well that are seeing that there are consequences to uncritical support of law enforcement despite oodles of evidence that there has been far more abuse going on than we care to admit to. That doesn't mean everyone in uniform is a thug with a badge or is abusing their power, but let's remind ourselves that we do invest these people with far ranging powers, which includes the power to kill and it seems that there's a lot of killing going on that didn't justify it. And as I said... It's a canary in the coal mine. These following incidents:

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I've mentioned this shooting, of Daniel Shaver before. It's horrible obviously and there's no justification for it. Both officers should've faced prison time.

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"Bodycam shows officer shoot man wearing headphones" Terrible headline. Cops get a call of three men flashing a gun. Police make contact, two of the men stop but Dillon Taylor walks away, non compliant, turns around to the officer and pulls up his shirt as if he's drawing a weapon. Your average citizen does not have that type of interaction with police. This was a troubled person who didn't care about his life anymore and wanted to end it.

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"Why was an unarmed deaf man shot by police?"

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article129581769.html

Led police on a high speed chase of up two 100mph, when finally stopped, gets out of the car and comes toward the officer with a metal object in hand. Watch Surviving Edged Weapons if you don't think that's a threat.

The people killed were White Americans. We, the citizens should not have to fear from law enforcement if we are innocent of wrong doing, and, as radical as this might seem, yes even when we are guilty of wrong doing one shouldn't fear for our lives from police. I know this blows the minds of some for reasons I can't begin to fathom but no, stealing a six pack from a corner store is not somehow justification in a civilized society of laws for police to exercise some, heretofore unknown to the general public, right to extrajudicial
public execution for whatever crime they wish. And I repeat... This seems to be happening more these days. So let's not pretend that the best part about bodycams for the average citizen is that it's stopping frivolous charges against police when the direct affect might well be that it probably keeps more cops on the straight and narrow than we would care to admit to. And since I know it will come, again from all the usual suspects around here, yeah... You can post all the videos of police getting shot by criminals all you want as if that somehow disproves my argument. It doesn't. As I already stated it's a terribly risky job we ask cops to perform. But that there is risk doesn't justify we as citizens having a cavalier attitude about abuse because, AGAIN, maybe, I don't know... citizens have rights? Yes, even guilty perpetrators of minor offenses. If a cop gets into a physical engagement well all else fails, then yes, lethal force should of course be on the table. If a cop is fired up by armed criminals, then yes they should use lethal for to protect themselves. If police feel that a suspect is an immediate threat to others I of course think they should use lethal force... but look at the examples above. That's far from those scenarios present themselves as, and again, AGAIN... posting videos that show when it was justified by police to use lethal force doesn't negate the events in the videos I posted. That's not how things work, nor is it how they should work morally or legally. Being critical when necessary of police actions when they have been charged with the ability to dispense state sanctioned violence would, one assumes if they are genuinely committed to the principals they espouse so very loudly, be something that Libertarians/Conservatives could get behind... Yet online and in the real world they sure seem to show a metric ton of equivocation and rationalization on these issues and it makes a lot of us wonder what motivates that?
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In two of the cases of three cases you posted which led to deadly force, it's reasonable to believe the person was a threat.

ban768 · Jul 8, 2018

Just think of the everyday racism we hear about everyday. That we have video evidence of. Stuff that if you are a white in the US, you don't need to deal with it. Using your pool, working on a house, BBQ'ing, mowing your lawn, talking to your constituents, walking home, being in your own backyard, selling water, etc. These are not things that get the cops called on white Americans. It is not a thing. And is it any coincidence that the ones who call the cops are almost always white?
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Well that's just completely false. Tell that to my work friend. She is a 50 year old married white woman whose had the neighbors call the cops on more than once. First for having wind chimes in her yard and a separate occasion for just burning wood pellets in her fire pit. This happens all the time to white people with nosy pain in the ass neighbors. It just doesn't make national news.

Holiday · Jul 8, 2018

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Donner · Jul 8, 2018

Are you posting this stuff to somehow prove that racism doesn't exist?

Holiday · Jul 8, 2018

Elektra1 said: ↑

Are you posting this stuff to somehow prove that racism doesn't exist?
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My last post was a joke/reference to something Krypton said, "the usual suspects".

Aximili86 · Jul 9, 2018

Elektra1 said: ↑

Are you posting this stuff to somehow prove that racism doesn't exist?
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Pretty clear he's inferring nothing of the sort. Only that traffic stops are dangerous business a lot of the time, and not complying with cop's instructions tends to be taking your life into your own hands.

KRYPTON INC. · Jul 10, 2018

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Aximili86 · Jul 10, 2018

Not really. Basically the same deal in Canada & Australia in terms of the cautious approach gun-not-drawn-but-at-the-ready. Less shootings to content with, but it's all basically standard cop policy.

KRYPTON INC. · Jul 10, 2018

Aximili86 said: ↑

Not really. Basically the same deal in Canada & Australia in terms of the cautious approach gun-not-drawn-but-at-the-ready. Less shootings to content with, but it's all basically standard cop policy.
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Are you responding to the video just posted? If so... You missed the point I think.

RockSP · Jul 10, 2018

91 year old beaten with brick, told to go back to Mexico
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/09/us/mexican-man-beaten-brick-los-angeles/index.html

Handsome Rob · Jul 10, 2018

White Man Beaten With Skateboard in Suspected San Francisco Hate Crime

https://abcnews.go.com/US/white-man-beaten-skateboard-suspected-san-francisco-hate/story?id=56461950

Wow. I've been reading for a while about the ridiculous cost to live and visit San Francisco, as well as problems with the homelessness that are apparently getting out of hand. Throw racism into the mix, and while seeing the Golden Gate Bridge would be cool, it's just not worth going to San Fran.

Aximili86 · Jul 10, 2018

Yeah, they just said Frisco's the highest rent in the world yesterday. Maybe address that, bubble-living yuppies, might go a way to curbing your homeless problem.

All that stuff about the cops just stopping even trying with the petty-crime stuff is pretty par-for-the-course these days in California, minor robberies and all. Belly of the beast with that type of insanity out here now. San Diego seems to have a better handle on some of this stuff, but parts of L.A. here are getting bananas.

Is it improving any in New York, with the transit stations and all? Heard it was a little touch-and-go there for a while in the early days of De Blasio, but he might have done an about-face since.

Holiday · Jul 10, 2018

RockSP said: ↑

91 year old beaten with brick, told to go back to Mexico
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/09/us/mexican-man-beaten-brick-los-angeles/index.html
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4 other people jumped in as well. He allegedly bumped into her kid.

Schlosser85 · Jul 10, 2018

How cowardly can you possibly be?

Setting a super duper example for your kid.

chamber-music · Jul 12, 2018

Papa John's founder John Schnatter resigns as chairman of board after using racial slur

This is like Sitcom bumbling levels stupidity and lack of self awareness

Schnatter sticks his foot in his mouth and loses his CEO position. Then while training how not to stick his foot in his mouth, he loses his chairman position.

Papa Johns hired a PR consulting team just for the specific purpose of avoiding any further controversy after the NFL kneeling fiasco and put Schnatter on a conference call for a role-playing exercise on how to avoid racially charged mishaps. At some point, he complained that "Colonel Sanders called blacks n-----s" without any public backlash against KFC, and described "growing up in Indiana, where black people were sometimes dragged from trucks until they died", which offended multiple people on the call, "although the troubling memories were apparently brought up by Schnatter to demonstrate how anti-racist he is"
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KFC founder Harlan Sanders who was born in rural 19th century Indiana so he probably did say racist stuff like a lot of people from his generation. Not a great idea comparing yourself in 2018 to a guy from another time period though. Also Sanders has been dead for forty years

Also if your doing racial sensitivity training and trying to prove your not a racist, don't bring up how black people were brutally murdered where your from

Aximili86 · Jul 12, 2018

I love how that sort of stuff is reported as indicative of some huge epidemic. The guy said something awful, was called on it, and he's out on his ass. As he should be, the system worked.

Holiday · Jul 12, 2018

KRYPTON INC. said: ↑

[YT]gaSHgkF8qaI[/YT]
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https://nypost.com/2018/07/11/cop-q...ing-woman-harassed-for-puerto-rico-shirt/amp/

RockSP · Jul 12, 2018

Holiday said: ↑

https://nypost.com/2018/07/11/cop-q...ing-woman-harassed-for-puerto-rico-shirt/amp/
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It was the least he could do. Well actually the least he could do was what he did that day in the park...

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