Discussion: Racism - Part 4

[Holiday]

It really shows how messed up our nation's view of law enforcement truly is when folks think it is okay to break up a knife fight by pumping four bullets into a child's body. As MANY MANY other folks knowledgeable about teen mental health have stated, there are a variety of ways to intervene in this situation that doesn't lead to a child's corpse. The officer could have used a taser, intervened physically with either his body or a billy club, fired a round or two into the air, shot at a leg or arm, or maybe only fire one shot so there remains the possibility this child keeps breathing. Any one of those would have been a better option than emptying his chamber into this girl.

And yes, if the potential stabee died from a wound she may or may not have received - unlikely as that case may be - there would be criticism. So what? That's why cops get paid the big bucks. If they can't stand criticism of their performance they need to find a new occupation.

If I was being attacked by a knife and the cops decided to put down my assailant like a dog I would likely be appreciative at the time. And then have a lifetime of nightmares. My position stands. The officer handled the situation horribly and a girl is dead due to his incompetence.

It's not a "knife fight" when only one person has a knife. This girl yelled out, "I'm gonna stab the **** out of you *****" and then proceeded to try and stab two different unarmed people who were not attacking her in that moment. That's a one-sided attack.

You said before the officer was, "Putting not only the attacker but the potential victim in grave danger." by firing into the torso of the attacker but also say he should have tried shooting her arm or leg... You understand it's much more difficult to hit a person's moving arm or leg compared to their torso?

4 rounds is also not "emptying the chamber" by the way.

This girl being only 16 isn't relevant. Teens can kill as adults can. A 13 year old killed another girl the day before this in Cincinnati with a pocket knife.

‘They took my baby:’ Parents say bullying led to 13-year-old’s stabbing death

Watch the video of that family who lost their daughter and then let's talk about a supposed 96-97% survival rate for stabbing victims.

 

[Zarex]

It's not a "knife fight" when only one person has a knife. This girl yelled out, "I'm gonna stab the **** out of you *****" and then proceeded to try and stab two different unarmed people who were not attacking her in that moment. That's a one-sided attack.

You said before the officer was, "Putting not only the attacker but the potential victim in grave danger." by firing into the torso of the attacker but also say he should have tried shooting her arm or leg... You understand it's much more difficult to hit a person's moving arm or leg compared to their torso?

4 rounds is also not "emptying the chamber" by the way.

This girl being only 16 isn't relevant. Teens can kill as adults can. A 13 year old killed another girl the day before this in Cincinnati with a pocket knife.

‘They took my baby:’ Parents say bullying led to 13-year-old’s stabbing death

Watch the video of that family who lost their daughter and then let's talk about a supposed 96-97% survival rate for stabbing victims.

What the girl said or did not say preceding her attack is irrelevant. The point I and many other folks are trying to get across is that deadly force is rarely if ever necessary when someone is threatening to stab somebody else, particularly if that person wielding the knife is a child. And while hitting an child's arm or leg may be more challenging, I think it is worth putting that extra pressure on the peace officer responding if we can avoid burying a teenage girl.

Knife wounds certainly can be deadly, despite the statistics to the contrary. But though certain types in this country have put statistics under fire in this country, they are relevant. Mowing down the girl holding the knife was overkill, literally. It may have been easier for the responding officer to fire bullets into the crowd, put down the potential assailant and be on his merry way. But to suggest that pumping four bullets (NOT THE FULL CHAMBER BTW!) into a child is an acceptable outcome shows how blase we have become in this country of police exercising deadly force.

 

[InCali]

What the girl said or did not say preceding her attack is irrelevant. The point I and many other folks are trying to get across is that deadly force is rarely if ever necessary when someone is threatening to stab somebody else, particularly if that person wielding the knife is a child. And while hitting an child's arm or leg may be more challenging, I think it is worth putting that extra pressure on the peace officer responding if we can avoid burying a teenage girl.

Knife wounds certainly can be deadly, despite the statistics to the contrary. But though certain types in this country have put statistics under fire in this country, they are relevant. Mowing down the girl holding the knife was overkill, literally. It may have been easier for the responding officer to fire bullets into the crowd, put down the potential assailant and be on his merry way. But to suggest that pumping four bullets (NOT THE FULL CHAMBER BTW!) into a child is an acceptable outcome shows how blase we have become in this country of police exercising deadly force.

I have to think this is one part the person and 1 part the training. Mix them together and you get cops that frequently use excessive force.

 

[Sithborg]

 

[chaseter]

It really shows how messed up our nation's view of law enforcement truly is when folks think it is okay to break up a knife fight by pumping four bullets into a child's body. As MANY MANY other folks knowledgeable about teen mental health have stated, there are a variety of ways to intervene in this situation that doesn't lead to a child's corpse. The officer could have used a taser, intervened physically with either his body or a billy club, fired a round or two into the air, shot at a leg or arm, or maybe only fire one shot so there remains the possibility this child keeps breathing. Any one of those would have been a better option than emptying his chamber into this girl.

And yes, if the potential stabee died from a wound she may or may not have received - unlikely as that case may be - there would be criticism. So what? That's why cops get paid the big bucks. If they can't stand criticism of their performance they need to find a new occupation.

If I was being attacked by a knife and the cops decided to put down my assailant like a dog I would likely be appreciative at the time. And then have a lifetime of nightmares. My position stands. The officer handled the situation horribly and a girl is dead due to his incompetence.

It really shows how messed up our nation’s view of law enforcement truly is when people begin to advocate for the safety of the weapon wielding perpetrator over their potential victim. People are so caught up with burning down the police that they’re blind to instances in which lethal force potentially saves lives. Why don’t you ask the girl who was pinned to the car with a knife headed her way how she’s doing? It’s sad and unfortunate what happened but it was justifiable.

Your last paragraph contradicts your earlier view. You would be grateful at the time...ok. I would be grateful too. I don’t want to potentially be ended by a knife wielding perpetrator.

 

[Zarex]

It really shows how messed up our nation’s view of law enforcement truly is when people begin to advocate for the safety of the weapon wielding perpetrator over their potential victim. People are so caught up with burning down the police that they’re blind to instances in which lethal force potentially saves lives. Why don’t you ask the girl who was pinned to the car with a knife headed her way how she’s doing? It’s sad and unfortunate what happened but it was justifiable.

Your last paragraph contradicts your earlier view. You would be grateful at the time...ok. I would be grateful too. I don’t want to potentially be ended by a knife wielding perpetrator.

It's truly repellent, but not surprising, how little certain types care about the death of young black people. If the officer had acted at all competently in the situation there would be no child to bury. Many, many, many folks have described how this potential stabbing should have been broken up with no loss of life. And without four frikkin' bullets shot into the body of a troubled child.

But this is 'MURICA, baby! When our officers aren't spraying tear gas into the eyes of protestors, assassinating folks in their driveway or joking about abusing an elderly women suffering from dementia they are breaking up knife fights with EXTREME PREJUDICE! YEEEE-HAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

 

[Donner]

It's truly repellent, but not surprising, how little certain types care about the death of young black people. If the officer had acted at all competently in the situation there would be no child to bury. Many, many, many folks have described how this potential stabbing should have been broken up with no loss of life. And without four frikkin' bullets shot into the body of a troubled child.

But this is 'MURICA, baby! When our officers aren't spraying tear gas into the eyes of protestors, assassinating folks in their driveway or joking about abusing an elderly women suffering from dementia they are breaking up knife fights with EXTREME PREJUDICE! YEEEE-HAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Many many folks who have never been in that situation?

The cop rolled up, got out and started asking questions. Then **** hit the fan where an adult male throws a young girl to the ground and kicks her in the head and another girl grabs a knife and goes swinging. He told her to get down 4 times and she didn't. Any more of a delay and the victim could be dead.

I think had she grabbed the knife and kept her distance from the other girl, she wouldn't have been shot. And that's where diffusing the situation would come into play. But the cop yelled at her to get down and she didn't. This girl called the cops and then attacked someone right in front of them. That's just insane.

I also think it's a bit crazy to say that shooting her was bad because he could have hit the other girl but suggesting he try to shoot her leg or arm, which were much smaller targets and more likely to miss. Cops are trained to shoot at the largest target, i.e. the torso. We can debate whether they should be trained for that at all, but as it is, that's the training they get.

I think we would all be grateful in that situation if we were the other girl. I don't believe this one instance is race related. I think he would have shot anyone of any colour in that situation.

 

[Zarex]

Many many folks who have never been in that situation?

The cop rolled up, got out and started asking questions. Then **** hit the fan where an adult male throws a young girl to the ground and kicks her in the head and another girl grabs a knife and goes swinging. He told her to get down 4 times and she didn't. Any more of a delay and the victim could be dead.

I think had she grabbed the knife and kept her distance from the other girl, she wouldn't have been shot. And that's where diffusing the situation would come into play. But the cop yelled at her to get down and she didn't. This girl called the cops and then attacked someone right in front of them. That's just insane.

I also think it's a bit crazy to say that shooting her was bad because he could have hit the other girl but suggesting he try to shoot her leg or arm, which were much smaller targets and more likely to miss. Cops are trained to shoot at the largest target, i.e. the torso. We can debate whether they should be trained for that at all, but as it is, that's the training they get.

I think we would all be grateful in that situation if we were the other girl. I don't believe this one instance is race related. I think he would have shot anyone of any colour in that situation.

Many, many folks who dealt with similar situations involving troubled youths and were able to disarm them without blowing them away. And as I have stated knife wounds are much less lethal than gunshot wounds. It was irresponsible of the officer to introduce a gun into a knife fight.

I don't know enough about the fellow who pumped four bullets into the child's body to say whether he was or was not a bigot. I would agree that shooting to kill is the training that these police officers get, and that's why a child was slain.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The look on the women's faces sitting on the blanket as the man tries to explain the "good things" the south were fighting for in the Civil War says it all. These people don't even seem to understand what the word slavery means. ****.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Many, many folks who dealt with similar situations involving troubled youths and were able to disarm them without blowing them away. And as I have stated knife wounds are much less lethal than gunshot wounds. It was irresponsible of the officer to introduce a gun into a knife fight.

I don't know enough about the fellow who pumped four bullets into the child's body to say whether he was or was not a bigot. I would agree that shooting to kill is the training that these police officers get, and that's why a child was slain.

We are taught far too young that you meet potential violence with violence. De-escalation is just not something a lot of people understand because they aren't taught it. Police sure as hell don't understand it. Which is why it is important for professionals to handle these kind of situations.

Too many people see a young girl with a knife and see them as some sort of criminal that must be stopped by any means necessary. They put themselves in the shoes of the officer, and think what they would do. What they would do should never be the standard, because they are not being paid to protect the public, which includes that young girl and more importantly, they don't know how to properly handle such situations.

 

[Zarex]

This is very personal to me. I have an adult child with autism, and while he has never been violent or waved weapons around, he will on occasion become emotional and behave irrationally. And I am very concerned that at some point in his life a "peace" officer will decide that he represents a threat and mow him down. As we've seen them do with mentally challenged individuals WAY too many times in the past. Defunding the police can't happen soon enough for me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is very personal to me. I have an adult child with autism, and while he has never been violent or waved weapons around, he will on occasion become emotional and behave irrationally. And I am very concerned that at some point in his life a "peace" officer will decide that he represents a threat and mow him down. As we've seen them do with mentally challenged individuals WAY too many times in the past. Defunding the police can't happen soon enough for me.

I am sorry you have to live with that fear. Your post reminded me of something I meant to say in my other posts. A lot of these situations aren't what some might think they are from the outside. When you have police going straight for their weapons in such a situation, they can't assess by their own choice. And that burden ends up on those they kill and those victims families.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Representative Hilferty had the perfect response. And she's a Republican. See, it's not hard.

 

[InCali]

I'm (not) sorry, but...... Just .

Dude...YOU just got owned in the worst, most embarrassing way possible and you'll probably get re-elected.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I love how big of a contradiction this speech was:

 

[Teelie]

The contradiction in that statement is an ocean wide difference in reality to whatever place he's living in.

 

[chamber-music]

These people don't want to teach or learn history, they want to teach propaganda and indoctrinate people.

States rights confederacy people just sound like snowflakes that can't seem to get over that their ancestors were on the wrong side of history so they immaturely continue some misleading garbage about state rights instead of just accepting the truth.

Slavery was listed as one of the primary grievances as to why many of the states wanted to succeed from the United States on documents and if the southern states cared about states rights they would not of been pressuring northern states to return runaway slaves to the south.

The fact these folks cling to the idea of a failed short lived breakaway nation state from a century and a half ago should be embarrassing.

The Antebellum South wasn't even that great for anyone besides the landed gentry of the plantation class. If your descended from poor white southerners why would you be proud about your ancestors fighting for a social structure that restricted their social mobility.

Antebellum South - Wikipedia

 

[Teelie]

Those people were still above slaves and freed black people in the hierarchy of the antebellum south is why. Of course they were still poor but they were "better" than someone else so they had that. Now they just have bitterness.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't know when this came out/how I haven't seen this but I know people from that town. It's just a short drive from where I went to college.

These people don't want to teach or learn history, they want to teach propaganda and indoctrinate people.

States rights confederacy people just sound like snowflakes that can't seem to get over that their ancestors were on the wrong side of history so they immaturely continue some misleading garbage about state rights instead of just accepting the truth.

Slavery was listed as one of the primary grievances as to why many of the states wanted to succeed from the United States on documents and if the southern states cared about states rights they would not of been pressuring northern states to return runaway slaves to the south.

The fact these folks cling to the idea of a failed short lived breakaway nation state from a century and a half ago should be embarrassing.

The Antebellum South wasn't even that great for anyone besides the landed gentry of the plantation class. If your descended from poor white southerners why would you be proud about your ancestors fighting for a social structure that restricted their social mobility.

Antebellum South - Wikipedia

There's a great book called "How the South Won the Civil War" that essentially posits that you can draw a straight line from the plantation aristocracy, which ravaged the south economically and collected absurd wealth into the hands of the very few, to the Republican oligarchy's current economic model of handing over all the money to the rich while tricking the working class uneducated whites that it's someone else's fault.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

 

[InCali]

I wouldn't think DeathSantis would have such a low opinion of horse manure. He is, after all, full of it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Wright shows Shearer the racist abuse he receives online

 

[chamber-music]

This weekend social media platforms are being boycotted by British sports teams, athletes and leading sports bodies over a lack of action regarding online abuse. Even Skysports is boycotting social media platforms.