Discussion: Relations with Russia

While I don't believe war is great and disagree with many, unfortunately think it's sometimes necessary yet rarely . World War 2 for example, unsure how that could have been resolved any other way but war. Hitler was a psychopath.
 
Welp, the FSB officer in charge of the DNC hack has been arrested for treason.

No loose ends, comrade.
 
He was gonna pull a Snowden and expose the United Authoritarian Front to everybody.

Which is ten times worse than what Snowden exposed.
 
So, umm, it sounds like Russia is moving on Ukraine again. I'm sure the President will approve.
 
While I don't believe war is great and disagree with many, unfortunately think it's sometimes necessary yet rarely . World War 2 for example, unsure how that could have been resolved any other way but war. Hitler was a psychopath.

Not being *******s during the Treaty of Versailles would have helped.
 
Not being *******s during the Treaty of Versailles would have helped.

The harsh treatment of Germany was partly to do with politics and the public mood around Europe at the time.

Saying let's go easy on Germany would not of been popular back then.

British Prime Minister David Lloyd George needed the support of the public to succeed in elections. If he had come across as being soft on Germany, he would have been speedily voted out of office. The British public was after revenge and Lloyd George’s public image reflected this mood. “Hang the Kaiser” and “Make Germany Pay” were two very common calls in the era immediately after the end of the war and Lloyd George, looking for public support, echoed these views.

Privately Lloyd George was worried about the rise and spread of Communism in Europe. George felt that Germany should be treated in such a way that left her as a barrier to resist the expected spread of communism. He did not want the people of Germany to become so disillusioned with their government that they turned to communism. Lloyd George did not want Germany treated with lenience but he knew that Germany would be the only country in central Europe that could stop the spread of communism if it burst over the frontiers of Russia. Germany had to be punished but not to the extent that it left her destitute. However, it would have been political suicide to have gone public with these views.

Georges Clemenceau of France believed Germany should be brought to its knees so that she could never start a war again. His views reflected those of the French public.
 
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So, umm, it sounds like Russia is moving on Ukraine again. I'm sure the President will approve.

We should rename this thread to Russia pulling Trump's strings to get what they want with no opposition now.
 
The Ukraine appears to have sent a bit of a plea to the US, it'll no doubt fall on deaf ears now.
 
The harsh treatment of Germany was partly to do with politics and the public mood around Europe at the time.

Saying let's go easy on Germany would not of been popular back then.

British Prime Minister David Lloyd George needed the support of the public to succeed in elections. If he had come across as being soft on Germany, he would have been speedily voted out of office. The British public was after revenge and Lloyd George’s public image reflected this mood. “Hang the Kaiser” and “Make Germany Pay” were two very common calls in the era immediately after the end of the war and Lloyd George, looking for public support, echoed these views.

Privately Lloyd George was worried about the rise and spread of Communism in Europe. George felt that Germany should be treated in such a way that left her as a barrier to resist the expected spread of communism. He did not want the people of Germany to become so disillusioned with their government that they turned to communism. Lloyd George did not want Germany treated with lenience but he knew that Germany would be the only country in central Europe that could stop the spread of communism if it burst over the frontiers of Russia. Germany had to be punished but not to the extent that it left her destitute. However, it would have been political suicide to have gone public with these views.

Georges Clemenceau of France believed Germany should be brought to its knees so that she could never start a war again. His views reflected those of the French public.

Oh hindsight is 20/20 for sure in this case....no doubt.
 
So, umm, it sounds like Russia is moving on Ukraine again. I'm sure the President will approve.

He helped him out by running a distraction with the Muslim ban. That kept Mr. Putin's shenanigans out of the news cycle for about a week.
 
Russian belligerence has been building to a crescendo for some time:

a. In 2008, Russia militarily annexed the two ethnic Russian states of Abhkazia and South Ossetia from Georgia, constituting a substantial grab of Georgian territory. The West responded with sanctions, but as crude oil at all-time high of $145 a barrel in July 2008, these sanctions had little impact. (The Russian economy is to a very significant extent reliant upon oil.)
b. Oil prices go down because of shale oil
c. Russians become unhappy as the price of everything goes up as oil was propping up economy.
d. Russian President Vladimir Putin says this drop in the oil is a Western conspiracy, aided by the Saudis. This coincided with increased Russian air force buzzing of Western allies as reported in 2011.
e. Russia distracts its citizens with an invasion of Ukraine and in July 2014 a Russian missile shoots down a Malaysian passenger jet killing all occupants. NATO fails to challenge any of this militarily. However, by December 2014 Ukraine entered into cooperation agreement with NATO.
g. Oil prices continue to spiral. By June 2014 the price of oil had fallen to $115 a barrel. But by February 2015, oil had plummeted to $35 a barrel. In addition, Western sanctions over Ukraine and the destruction of the Malaysian commercial jet start to bite. This includes Russian companies losing access to Western credit, and thereby unable to refinance debt.
h. Russia again distracts its citizens from financial woes through the support of the Syrian regime in its civil war. Russia refuses to engage in airspace protocol with Western combat aircraft also operating in Syria, in October 2015.
i. In November 2015, Turkey shoots down a Russian military jet. Russians are very unhappy about this, and the Russian government installs heavy duty SAMs and Krashuka-4 platform (advanced jammer) in northern Syria.
j. In March 2016, Russia declared that it was pulling out of Syria – except of course it did not.
k. By February 2016, the Syrian war is very popular in Russia.
l. In April 2016, US special forces numbers dramatically increase in order to assist anti-Assad forces, and Russian jets conducted mock bombing runs, captured on video, over the guided missile destroyer USS Donald Cook, and then another Russian jet conducted a barrel roll over a US reconnaissance plane, both in the Baltic Sea.
m. By September 2016 Russian hackers are accused of interfering in US elections. In the meantime, Western sanctions are extended. More individuals are subject to asset freezes and travel bans, and Gazprom subsidiaries are directly targeted by sanctions. These sanctions bite very hard.
n. As at October 2016, crude oil currently at $50 a barrel, a very poor price – indeed, the international oil cartel, OPEC, have agreed to slow production in order to lift prices. Russia starts talking about direct war with the West in Russian media. There are Russian military drills on Ukrainian border. US policymakers distracted by election and US lawmakers in bipartisan deadlock.


Source: http://www.worldcomicbookreview.com/index.php/2016/12/01/russians-in-comic-books/
 
For the last three months I been wondering why would Putin would interfere with our Election and what would he gain from it.... Having read all four pages of this thread, my questions have been answered and it leaves me pissed off to the max
 
It is looking more and more like Flynn was in contact with the Russian government DURING the campaign.

So... Please spin this Trump voters. Really. I am interested in how this square gets circled.
 
Lol.

I think we're at the point where saying Russia is up to something no longer requires tin foil hats. They interfere with 3 major world elections (US, France, Germany). They have several ties to our WH. One proven just within the last day. Then they test new missles the same day as Iran, and North Korea. Kill the election hacker leakers. Buzz a US Navy Destroyer, and get caught with a spy ship right outside our waters.

Everything I just said isn't even theory craft. You could argue how big of a connection they have to the WH, but everything else is provable. That's not even including all of the leaked, or rumored stories. Either way, way too many coincidences in such a short amount of time.
 
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We are still in the EARLIEST of days with this stuff so I want to keep my powder dry but... Dear Zod in the Zone... The phrase "Where there is smoke there is fire" comes to mind. Our congress investigated Libya, White Water and on and on... They can't let this go. No matter the outcome we need to get to the root of this.
 
We are still in the EARLIEST of days with this stuff so I want to keep my powder dry but... Dear Zod in the Zone... The phrase "Where there is smoke there is fire" comes to mind. Our congress investigated Libya, White Water and on and on... They can't let this go. No matter the outcome we need to get to the root of this.

Well they are letting it go.

House Oversight Committee Chair Won’t Investigate Michael Flynn

House Oversight Committee Chairman Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) said Tuesday he will not pursue an investigation into what contacts Michael Flynn had with the Russian government before Donald Trump took office, and whether Flynn then lied about his communications.

Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), chair of the House Intelligence Committee, said Tuesday he may carry out an investigation ― but regarding the leaks of details about Flynn’s call, rather than his actual conduct.

Nunes, who was part of the executive committee of Trump’s transition team, also put out a statement offering nothing but praise for Flynn after he announced he would step down from the administration.

“Michael Flynn served in the U.S. military for more than three decades. Washington, D.C. can be a rough town for honorable people, and Flynn ― who has always been a soldier, not a politician ― deserves America’s gratitude and respect for dedicating so much of his life to strengthening our national security,” he said in a statement. “I thank him for his many years of distinguished service.”


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58a31aa2e4b03df370da45b9?
 
Well they are letting it go.

House Oversight Committee Chair Won’t Investigate Michael Flynn

A balance of power is essential.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

More proof the general election should be decided by the popular vote.

A powerless majority is inexcusable.
 
Usually these "town hall" constituency meet and greets are domestically focused. I think citizens need to put pressure about investigating this at these meetings with their representatives.

I think there is an angle here I just want to get off my chest.


Call it partisan but on balance for about three decades say, we have seen a spate of so called scandals which at the end, since they were on shaky grounds to begin with, yielded little consequences for the accused. Think of the Libya investigation(s). So... Given so many of these phony scandals, is the public just gonna shrug and move on with this Russian issue? Will Republicans, elected and rank and file, even those of good faith, just gonna think "Eh... this is just mountains out of mole hills" and do so since that has been their own M.O. for more than twenty years?
 
The West has been asleep at Russia's ascent over the past couple of decades. That's why they (the Russians) are taking advantage of our collective stupidity at thinking the Cold War was all over. For them, it never ended and they decided and prepared to fight back ten times harder. That brings us to today.
 

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