🇺🇸 Discussion: The Death Penalty

[The Chairman]

I truly hesitated making this thread for some months now because of the major differences in ideology when it comes this issue, but since we've already discussed Abortion and a number of other polarizing issues, I figure we might as well bring the this one up for debate.

I myself have long flip flopped over my views on the Death Penalty. I used to be all for it, but then when my views shifted to the left, I developed the "What makes us better than them?" philosophy. Then, when I finally decided to become a centrist in my ideoloogy, I went back to supporting it, which is where I stand now.

I believe that if the crime is heinous enough, and the person on trial has been convicted has been proven to be guilty to the point where reasonable doubt is virtually not present, then I truly support it wholeheartedly. I think it's a waste of tax dollars to spend money keeping criminals clothed and fed, especially mass murderers, rapists and sex offenders.

I do realize this is a heated subject, and am prepared for its closing should things reach a certain point (as they did in another thread already), but I urge people to be as mature and respectful as possible on a subject such as this.

 

[Timstuff]

I consider myself to be pro-life all around, so I am not in favor of the death penalty. However, I also think that our prison / justice system needs reform because we currently have too many inmates, and one of the biggest arguments in favor of the death penalty is that people don't like having to pay to keep inmates alive for life. My feelings towards abortion are much stronger than the death penalty, but in general I think it's always best to err on the side of life.

 

[StorminNorman]

I consider myself pro-death all around. I am pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro-right to death.

I draw the line at infanticide for botched abortions, however.

 

[The Chairman]

I consider myself pro-death all around.

Pro-death is a bit of a strong label. I'm both pro-choice and pro-death penalty, but pro-death just sounds....too strong. I'm not sure what the better label is.

 

[The Chairman]

I draw the line at infanticide for botched abortions, however.

Agreed.

 

[StorminNorman]

Pro-death is a bit of a strong label. I'm both pro-choice and pro-death penalty, but pro-death just sounds....too strong. I'm not sure what the better label is.

I mean you can change the wording to make it more palatable. I mean lets say we are Pro-Logic? Or Pro-Awesome or maybe just "Gold Team".

Q. What's your stance on abortion?
A. I am on the Gold Team.

Yea, I like it.

Either way, no matter what you call its still pro-death.

 

[Gilpesh]

I consider myself pro-death all around. I am pro-choice, pro-death penalty and pro-right to death.

I draw the line at infanticide for botched abortions, however.

We agree.

I mean you can change the wording to make it more palatable. I mean lets say we are Pro-Logic? Or Pro-Awesome or maybe just "Gold Team".

I'm torn between Pro-Awesome and Gold Team. But I think Gold Team would be awesomer than awesome.

 

[StorminNorman]

It shouldn't be Gold Team.

It should be Gold Team

See the difference?

 

[Gilpesh]

See the difference?

Yes. And it is amazing.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm for the death penalty. But guilt has to be proven beyond a doubt.

 

[SuperFerret]

I'm for the death penalty, but under two conditions which will need to be instituted before I'm fully behind it.

1- Guilt must be proven entirely.
2- It must be used as a deterrant. (This in particular will need constitutional changes to be made.)

 

[dnno1]

I consider myself to be pro-life all around, so I am not in favor of the death penalty. However, I also think that our prison / justice system needs reform because we currently have too many inmates, and one of the biggest arguments in favor of the death penalty is that people don't like having to pay to keep inmates alive for life. My feelings towards abortion are much stronger than the death penalty, but in general I think it's always best to err on the side of life.

 

[Addendum]

The merit for conviction isn't "guilt must be proven entirely", but "beyond a reasonable doubt". It's not the prosecution's fault that their case was more convincing than the defense's.

With regard to the death penalty, I have no problem with it.

 

[SuperFerret]

I know, I just didn't want to look as if I were stealing hippie hunter's words.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

I'm pro-life all-around, so I'm against the death penalty. However, this subject came up in my Sociology class, and I proposed the idea of harsher/borderline torturous conditions in prison depending on the crime(s) committed.

Sounds jacked up, but you don't learn lessons when you're dead, which is what I believe our justice system should be about- taking the worst people and turning them into good citizens (especially if they're released from prison). I don't think killing them would accomplish this.

Besides, the idea of, "Don't you dare kill others... But we'll kill you," makes zero sense to me.

 

[Addendum]

How about child molesters replace the lab animals?

As for rehabilitation, there are some that are lost causes.

 

[Bathead]

I am against the death penalty, it serves no purpose other than satisfying a desire for revenge.

 

[Malice]

Kill em dead....only because I know of no other good solution.

 

[Paradyme]

The situation really depends. Do I think people like Ted Bundy, Charles Mansion, John Wayne Gacy, etc. should be kept alive? No, I feel they should be terminated but just by lethal injection even though sometimes my emotions and I'm sure some others would want a more brutal death for terrible people like them.

Do I think people that have killed one person deserve to die? It all depends on the circumstance. Accidental deaths that occur shouldn't be a reason to give someone the death penalty. They should be put in prison but have a chance for parole.

People that murder for a reason or if its premeditated (and this is depending on how many they've killed) should be put in prison with enough life sentences to where they never have a chance for a lesser sentence.

 

[Matt]

I support it in certain cases.

As for child molestors...screw the death penalty. Give them life in prison. But not a coushy solitary cell. Lock them up in general pop. and let the other prisoners know exactly what they did.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Against it in all cases except treason. First, you can't undo it if it comes up wrong. Secondly it costs more to kill people like this than let them die in prison. Plus I think life in prison is worse anyway. Also I think things like the death penality make criminals more dangerous in many circumstances as many feel just like with the three strikes rule there's nothing left to lose so avoid being caught through all possible means.

 

[Addendum]

Against it in all cases except treason. First, you can't undo it if it comes up wrong.

So whose fault is that? The prosecution for making their case, or the defense for failing to make theirs?

 

[SuperFerret]

I am against the death penalty, it serves no purpose other than satisfying a desire for revenge.

That's a perfectly good reason to kill someone.


Plus, as I said, the death penalty also has the potential to be a deterrant for some of the more extreme crimes (i.e. rape, murder). All that needs to be done there is to do away with the "cruel and unusual punishment" stuff, and you'll get criminals to start thinking twice.

 

[moraldeficiency]

So whose fault is that? The prosecution for making their case, or the defense for failing to make theirs?

If one innocent person is branded something they are not and we murder them for something someone else did, then even if we kill 100 people that deserved it we have fundamentally failed in the course of justice.

Ultimately it's all of our faults for making a legal system more concerned with vengence than justice. Not to mention basing our justice system more on results orientation than a fair approach. We praise prosecutors for winning, and demonize them for losing regardless of what was actually fair and right.

All I'm saying is this is a permenant solution and the moment you allow innocent people to fall into that horrible meat grinder you're no longer anywhere near justice in any form. If say my sister was wrongly murdered by the system then you better believe I'd pull my second ammendment rights and use my bear arms to rip apart the prosecutor, defense attorney, judge and jury cause that's the same eye for an eye mentality. They'd be all like, "please stop tearing me apart with your large furry arms!"

Basically, cycles of vengence never work well for anyone.

 

[Matt]

That's a perfectly good reason to kill someone.


Plus, as I said, the death penalty also has the potential to be a deterrant for some of the more extreme crimes (i.e. rape, murder). All that needs to be done there is to do away with the "cruel and unusual punishment" stuff, and you'll get criminals to start thinking twice.

Actually every study shows that the death penalty does not work as a deterrent. And since its not cheaper...the only real reason is revenge. Which is valid, mind you.