Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 2

[Marvolo]

This has to do with the title of the TV show Supergirl, discussed at another forum..especially the season 2 finale "Nevertheless She Persisted." It supposedly was a phrase used by leftist/progressive mentally unstable New World Order supporting Mass. Senator Elizabeth Warren, you know who CLAIMS to be of Cherokee heritage. Well according to the blog The Gateway Pundit, she gets called out by the Cherokees about her heritage...with just two simple words...

PROVE IT!​

V.A. Shiva, an Indian-born entrepreneur and scientist, recently publicly challenged Elizabeth Warren to submit a DNA test to prove that she is Cherokee as she has so frequently claimed.

Then again most people who vote left-wing watch these trashy talk shows like Maury Povich and Steve Wilkos which does these DNA tests to prove paternity.

And there's more where that came from in a video embedded in the article.

One of the first speakers brings up a number of good points:

“Elizabeth Warren, being someone that has a professorship should have some type of ethics. How can you trust a person like that? If they’re willing to lie about themselves and where they’re from and who they are, you know? My name is Dale French, I was born and raised here on the Cherokee Indian reservation, and I just don’t approve of that . . .”

WELL LIE-A-WATHA...PROVE YOURSELF...OR ARE YOU A COWARD?

 

[Lighthouse]

Using the Gateway Pundit as a source immediately destroys any credibility.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

To those who say they want Warren to run in 2020... I'd like you to always remember... Robert.

Who bravely here, before us, demonstrated the absolute insanity of the conservative media machine. I'm telling you... this trivial, stupid, baseless Cherokee thing WILL stick against her if she goes against President Trump. If he's good at anything, it's at slinging mud and making it stick. Look what they did with Hillary. Do you really want to go through that again? To have a highly credible intelligent woman thrown into the gutter for minor transgressions?

We need someone new or someone who can go up against this idiocy (of which Robert just demonstrated perfectly) Does it matter that her parents told her that she was part Cherokee as a kid? No. Does it matter that she might, in fact, be part Cherokee? No. Does it matter that she is still an exceptionally brilliant and qualified indidivual who undoubtedly deserved to be at Harvard? No. Does it matter if she apologizes? No. Can we keep this sort of thing in perspective, comparing it to say... Trump's tax returns? No.

I think we really need to appreciate how ill informed these people are (Thanks again to Robert for giving us such a solid example). They don't care that they are ill-informed... they think it's better that way. They don't need evidence. The ridiculous, absurd, idiotic Cherokee thing has sticking power - I'm telling you - and that's actually why she shouldn't run. God help this country.

Thank you. It's sad but I think you're pretty spot on here.

 

[Sithborg]

Again, the media has been against Hillary for 30 years. No one can really compare to how much the media had it out for Hillary. It literally goes back to her being Hillary Rodham-Clinton.

 

[MaceB]

Hillary wasn't special. Just like Pelosi isn't special. Conservatives make them out to be devils because they are strong, accomplished, capable female leaders. A powerful woman threatens the regular order of things. And now that Clinton is gone, they'll just go to the next, and Warren is their easiest target.

 

[SV Fan]

Hillary wasn't special. Just like Pelosi isn't special. Conservatives make them out to be devils because they are strong, accomplished, capable female leaders. A powerful woman threatens the regular order of things. And now that Clinton is gone, they'll just go to the next, and Warren is their easiest target.

It was sort of funny I heard a story recently how in 2010 the republicans did some focus groups of negative ads testing with Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, they found that Pelosi had a much more negative reaction amongst conservatives then Reid did. Now you can draw one of 2 conclusions for that a) they hate San Francisco or b) they hate women in power. it certainly wasn't a religious thing because Pelosi had that to her advantage(she is Catholic compared to Reid being a Mormon)

 

[AvengerPA]

I think that Democrats should accept the repeal of Obamacare, and then demand a single payer system.

 

[Matt]

I think that Democrats should accept the repeal of Obamacare, and then demand a single payer system.

That doesn't make sense. The Democrats aren't in a position to get a single payer system. So by accepting the repeal of Obamacare, all they would be doing is acquiescing to millions of people losing their insurance, and, in turn, giving up one of the biggest points they will have over Republicans in 2018.

Now if the Democrats somehow take control of Congress in 2018, THAT would be the ideal time to pull something like this. On day on of the 2019 legislative session, they should pass a bill that repeals Obamacare contingent on the adoption of a single payer system. In other words, put Trump in a catch-22. Either he signs the bill that finally makes good on his promise to repeal and replace, but the replacement is single payer or he has to veto what will likely be the first repeal and replace that hits his desk (as Republicans won't do it because nothing that the Freedom Caucus lets go through the House will pass the Senate and nothing the Senate signs off on will be let through the House by the Freedom Caucus).

Of course, it is very unlikely that Democrats take one house of Congress back in 2018, much less both.

 

[MaceB]

I think that Democrats should accept the repeal of Obamacare, and then demand a single payer system.

Well they should certainly be pushing for single payer. Right now. At this very minute. Pres. Trump gave Dems this amazing opportunity to separate themselves. They'd be fools not to make ambitious proposals and to explain their progressive agenda to voters.
....But these are Dems... so, they'll probably just complain about how this is a center right country, and then take a nap.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I think that Democrats should accept the repeal of Obamacare, and then demand a single payer system.

this would be like you getting mugged and telling the mugger you'll give him the $20 bill you have in your pocket, only if he gives you $50 back.

 

[Matt]

this would be like you getting mugged and telling the mugger you'll give him the $20 bill you have in your pocket, only if he gives you $50 back.

Exactly! Democrats are in no position to demand anything. Yet it somehow makes sense for them to lay down and let Republicans take away the healthcare benefits of millions of Americans, all so Democrats can symbolically demand something that they can't get? Right...

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Nancy Pelosi should step down as Democratic leader.

14 years with very few wins...what is this, the Supreme Court? It's not a lifetime appointment. She had her turn. San Francisco had its turn. Too many turns: It didn't work for most of those years. Time to step aside.

 

[Matt]

Nancy Pelosi should step down as Democratic leader.

14 years with very few wins...what is this, the Supreme Court? It's not a lifetime appointment. She had her turn. San Francisco had its turn. Too many turns: It didn't work for most of those years. Time to step aside.

Umm...what?

Firstly, Nancy Pelosi is not the leader of the Democratic Party. She is the minority leader in the House. If anything, Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader is the current face and de facto leader of the Party and he has been doing a helluva job opposing the administration.

Second, Pelosi has quite a few achievements under her belt. Her very nature is an achievement. She is the first woman to serve as Speaker of the House, the third highest office in our country, behind only the Presidency and the Vice-Presidency. That in and of itself is a major accomplishment and a major milestone for women's rights. Moreover, she has many legislative achievements during her time as Speaker.

- She passed the first successful health care reform act of the modern era;

- She was instrumental to getting the stimulus bill passed, which pulled our country back from the brink of economic downturn, the likes of which we haven't seen since the Great Depression;

- She passed legislation that raised fuel efficiency standards for the first time in 30 + years (which has proven instrumental in the fight against global warming);

- She passed legislation that raised the minimum wage for the first time in over a decade;

- She oversaw the largest expansion of college funding in our country's history, cutting federal loan interest rates in half and expanding Pell grants, making college more affordable and accessible than ever before;

- She passed the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act;

- She passed legislation that made it illegal for insurance companies to discriminate based on mental health conditions and expanded coverage for said conditions.

Those are just off the top of my head. I am truly perplexed how anyone can look at that list, which is a mere fraction of what Pelosi has accomplished during her time as Speaker and Minority Leader and say that she has "few wins" or that her time in leadership has been "unsuccessful."

Look, there are many arguments as to why, if the Democrats retake the House, a new Speaker is appropriate. But this type of intellectual dishonesty is one of the biggest hurdles in front of the Democratic Party. There is this notion (promulgated largely by Bernie Sanders), that Democratic leadership in the post-Reagan era has been impotent and inept, establishment cronies who have given no regard to progressive ideals. That, frankly, is a lie. It is a shame that so many have bought into it.

 

[Sithborg]

She is very good at her role as Democratic leader of the House. She has her caucus under control. Now, as a greater leader within the party, sure, she isn't quite a good fit. But I don't think I would want anyone else in her role.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

No kidding she's the leader of the House Democrats. Let's not play games with semantics.

Pelosi is a boat anchor upon the electoral fortunes of Democrats running for the House. During her tenure over the past 14 years, the House Democrats have been able to win a governing majority only during 2 cycles (2006 elections, 2008 elections). Her name and location is poison in most districts.

'Thank you for your service. Now get out of the way.'

 

[Matt]

No kidding she's the leader of the House Democrats. Let's not play games with semantics.

Pelosi is a boat anchor upon the electoral fortunes of Democrats running for the House. During her tenure over the past 14 years, the House Democrats have been able to win a governing majority only during 2 cycles (2006 elections, 2008 elections). Her name and location is poison in most districts.

'Thank you for your service. Now get out of the way.'

But that is an entirely different argument from the one you just made. It is one thing to say she is electorally bad for the Democrats, it is an entirely different thing to say she has no wins. Pelosi in 4 years as Speaker accomplished more than a great majority of legislators do in their entire career. That shouldn't be discounted.

Plus, your argument is reactionary. How much did she really heart Ossoff? He lost by 3 points in a district that has gone red by 30 points for decades. Ossoff was destined to lose because of the district. People need to stop being reactionary and acting like it is an indictment of the future of the Party and stop casting around blame. This is a win for the Democrats.

Now if the Democrats lose swing districts in a year and a half, then we can talk.

 

[Sithborg]

No kidding she's the leader of the House Democrats. Let's not play games with semantics.

Pelosi is a boat anchor upon the electoral fortunes of Democrats running for the House. During her tenure over the past 14 years, the House Democrats have been able to win a governing majority only during 2 cycles (2006 elections, 2008 elections). Her name and location is poison in most districts.

'Thank you for your service. Now get out of the way.'

The Republicans will always find some scary Democrat woman to scare the base. If not Pelosi, it will be Harris, and on and on and on.

The thing you can say, is that she is damn good at governing and running her caucus. She didn't really have the issues Ryan is now running into.

 

[Ouch]

Nancy Pelosi should step down as Democratic leader.

14 years with very few wins...what is this, the Supreme Court? It's not a lifetime appointment. She had her turn. San Francisco had its turn. Too many turns: It didn't work for most of those years. Time to step aside.

It doesn't matter who they have as leaders in the House or the Senate. It doesn't matter what they do. The Democratic Party brand is dead, and will never recover. They are strictly a regional party. They won't even exist in 20 years.

 

[Matt]

It doesn't matter who they have as leaders in the House or the Senate. It doesn't matter what they do. The Democratic Party brand is dead, and will never recover. They are strictly a regional party. They won't even exist in 20 years.

Just take your melodramatic, reactionary, nonsense and go away man. You sound like the exact type of moron who said this about Democrats in 1984, and again twenty later 2004 and the exact type of moron who said this about Republicans in 2008, and twelve years before that in 1996.

Politics is cyclical. Always has been, since the founding of our country and always will be.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Pelosi needs to be put out to pasture. All these uninspiring, decrepit Democratic fossils need to let some other trees get some sunshine.

Yes, I know I am mixing my metaphors.

 

[Marvolo]

It doesn't matter who they have as leaders in the House or the Senate. It doesn't matter what they do. The Democratic Party brand is dead, and will never recover. They are strictly a regional party. They won't even exist in 20 years.

I saw your posts in the Trump thread. Ouch, if you are truly this depressed and feel hopeless please talk to someone. People will support you and they will help you. I know it can be scary opening up to family and friends and strangers about depression, but you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Depression is not a shameful thing. Its something many humans experience and those people and many others can and will relate to you and help. It might seem like you are alone, or unworthy of help, or like your helpless but you arent. All you have to do is reach out. Someone will be their to help.

 

[Matt Mortem]

The Democratic Party is defeated largely by unfair gerrymandering. Our country isn't lost. The Republicans just cheat.

 

[Elayis]

Or they hold ridiculous views on certain topics and are unwilling to debate them. I'm sure this played a part in Clinton's loss to Trump, especially among independents.

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenint...mism-pose-questions-only-to-male-witness/amp/

 

[FVD]

Pelosi needs to be put out to pasture. All these uninspiring, decrepit Democratic fossils need to let some other trees get some sunshine.

Yes, I know I am mixing my metaphors.

It's going to be interesting when Stephen Jaffe primaries her in 2018. I'm for the Justice Democrats wing seeking to primary these Corporate Dems next year, mostly in the hopes of getting money out of politics but I do agree that people like Dianne Feinstein and Maxine Waters need to retire. Heck, there's talk of Joe Biden running which MSM seem to be supporting and while they criticise Bernie for not ruling out running in 2020, Biden is only a year younger than him jeez.

 

[auditor]

Just take your melodramatic, reactionary, nonsense and go away man. You sound like the exact type of moron who said this about Democrats in 1984, and again twenty later 2004 and the exact type of moron who said this about Republicans in 2008, and twelve years before that in 1996.

Politics is cyclical. Always has been, since the founding of our country and always will be.

One could argue that in 1984 people thought about the future and imagined it being better than this. Just because we won some elections here and there it doesn't mean the public ever gave us a chance to prove and vindicate ourselves and our beliefs. Im sure well be kind of sort of in power some day. But am I happy? No! Republicans will have filled the supreme court. Trump is projected to appoint 500 federal judges. Well get nothing done and Bernie's people will say "see nothing got done because dems are just like reps."
Or in order to win over Bernie's people well be idiots and end up causing a depression scaring future generations of the mere mention of socialism.

We needed 2016.