Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

[Venom'sDad]

The U.S. Populous has screwed themselves....do no more than look in the mirror.

 

[StorminNorman]

Academia played a major role in that.

Anyone who has a degree in Political Science from 90% of American Universities is the least qualified person possible for a job in politics. They are as (if not more) clueless as most with the belief that they know their ****.

 

[Marx]

They go hand in hand and both have screwed us considerably.

I agree. To blame one and not the other isn't wise.

 

[WildcatNC]

In the end the problem is that people are generally ignorant and can't see more than 5 feet in front of their face, nor plan more than 5 minutes ahead of time.

The politicians are enablers who are making a fortune off the backs of an ignorant populace. Take the "on deadly ground" admonition from warfare and apply it to consumers and peasants. The genius is the illusion of choices and freedoms.

You could pick nearly any time period in the history of the civilized world and say the same thing. The only thing thats different now is that people have convinced themselves this isn't the case.

The voters are in charge, right?

 

[StorminNorman]

Without politicians there would be no public labor unions. Without public labor unions, there would still be politicians.

Public Labor Unions are a symptom of Politicians.

(And bad politicians are the symptom of a failed educational system)

 

[StorminNorman]

In the end the problem is that people are generally ignorant and can't see more than 5 feet in front of their face, nor plan more than 5 minutes ahead of time.

The politicians are enablers who are making a fortune off the backs of an ignorant populace. Take the "on deadly ground" admonition from warfare and apply it to consumers and peasants. The genius is the illusion of choices and freedoms.

You could pick nearly any time period in the history of the civilized world and say the same thing. The only thing thats different now is that people have convinced themselves this isn't the case.

The voters are in charge, right?

You may enjoy this. It's an essay contending that Hereditary Monarchy is superior to Representative Democracy.

http://mises.org/daily/4068

 

[Alex_Spider]

Hello everyone. I don't know if this is the right thread to post, but i suppose so. Has anyone here watched the social documentary Zeitgeist: The movie and Zeitgeist: Addendum which addresses the origins of the problems that humanity faces through the history till today. And proposes a solution which is based in redesigning our culture which is based on a monetary system and as long as it exists we will never truly prosper and we' ll continue facing the same tragic fate as we do today. The solution is the use of technology we have that can free people from labory and create abundance for all humanity through a system that is based on Earth' s recources and not in some policy or personal opinions that only cause more problems. For more insight visit:
www.thevenusproject.com, www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
There are chapters all around the world with members that inform and educate people to become active for the most mass movement in the history.

 

[StorminNorman]

A good example of overmoderation.

As far as a Resource Based Economy, it's not a new idea - it's actually extremely primitive.

The obvious solution would be to base currency off of a Gold Standard which would provide all the benefits of a resource based economy and a currency based economy.

It still amazes me how the people that make monetary policy have such an illogical conception of currency.

MONEY IS NOT A MAN-MADE CREATION, IT'S A NATURAL OCCURRENCE.

 

[Alex_Spider]

Yes but the thing is that if there is any form of exchange or monetary currency, we would still face the same problems as today not in the same level of course, but there would still be corruption and crimes because people would still try to obtain as much as they can. And although the idea is very old today we have the technology to make it possible. There are tons of food that get wasted as tons of goods that we produce today and more than half of Earth' s population doesn't have access to them due to the ruthless economic rules that are made by the greedy banks in conjuction with the goverments. And that will never change in a monetary system. It' s an idea that Star Trek movies also have where people don't work for money anymore. Clearly the solution for humanity's future isn't electing better politicians or more ethical economic laws. it's a dead end.

 

[StorminNorman]

If the value of money is tied purely to the value of another good - like Gold - then there would be little ability for politicians to be able to manipulate the money supply.

 

[Alex_Spider]

Well i personally want all or nothing this time. I don' t want to risk falling again in the same system. I mean, how can everyone sleep calmly when America alone has about 4.000 nuclear weapons resting underground. Think about 200 nuclear suitcases that were stolen from the Soviet Union and no-one knows where they are or who has them. It' s a nightmare. As long as there is a form of purchasing they will keep making this planet a land mine. We have the technology and the recourses to produce goods for all humanity without the need of exchange or governments. It's just a matter of informing and educating people to push society in that direction. Just if any one is interested, here in a small island in Greece, the Aegean University Research Team built the first ecological fully automated desalination plant that provides clean water from sea, inspired by 93 year old Jacque Fresco, industrial designer and creator of The Venus Project.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHosWOk4ruQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTuh2wIz32M

 

[Alex_Spider]

There is also Marinaleda, a village in Spain where they have zero unemployment and the rent for a house is 15Euros a month. Also they have no police, no crime, no churches, although everyone is free to believe wherever they wish. They share all goods and they all get the same salary. But the thing is you couldn' t replicate this type of living in the big chaotic cities today.

 

[StorminNorman]

I wouldn't want to live there, but that is an example of how Communism can work. As long as it is purely voluntary, I have no problem with communism.

If Spain tried to do what Marinaleda did, it wouldn't work.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

Hello everyone. I don't know if this is the right thread to post, but i suppose so. Has anyone here watched the social documentary Zeitgeist: The movie and Zeitgeist: Addendum which addresses the origins of the problems that humanity faces through the history till today. And proposes a solution which is based in redesigning our culture which is based on a monetary system and as long as it exists we will never truly prosper and we' ll continue facing the same tragic fate as we do today. The solution is the use of technology we have that can free people from labory and create abundance for all humanity through a system that is based on Earth' s recources and not in some policy or personal opinions that only cause more problems. For more insight visit:
www.thevenusproject.com, www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
There are chapters all around the world with members that inform and educate people to become active for the most mass movement in the history.

It just seems like we are light years away from being able to even consider something like that openly. I don't know if it can ever work. But it doesn't mean it's wrong about the monetary system. The monetary system is the root problem of damn near everything. Massive failures are built into it, there are always going to be a contingent of people that HAVE to be **** on for most of their lives for the system to work. There's no option, it HAS to happen. We depend on it. So there will always be poverty, there will always be war under this system. Corruption is inherent, it's not a byproduct of the system, but the foundation, it's a necessity.

It's just so involving, the money you have in your pocket right now isn't even yours. Every dollar you have is owed to someone else. There is no paying off the national debt, it will never happen. Ever. There's always more owed back than there is ever out in circulation.

 

[StorminNorman]

It would seem to me that the root of all evil is government, not money. It is government that created the national debt, not money.

Money is the key to peace. Only through a system of commerce can resources exchange hands peacefully and fairly.

 

[chaseter]

There is still evil when government is non existent. The root of all evil is greed. All politicians are greedy and want to stay in office so they make deals under the table. They don't care about their duty, they care about keeping their job.

 

[StorminNorman]

There is nothing wrong with greed as long as you don't use coercion.

Government necessarily is a use of coercion.

 

[Marx]

There is still evil when government is non existent. The root of all evil is greed. All politicians are greedy and want to stay in office so they make deals under the table. They don't care about their duty, they care about keeping their job.

Exactly chase.

 

[Marx]

UPDATE: BERNANKE CLAIMS ECONOMY IS FINALLY RECOVERING
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/07/bernanke-recovery-finally-taking-hold/

 

[Kelly]

well of course he is, he wants to keep his job...

 

[Marx]

Yeah, I'm still not buying it...

 

[Alex_Spider]

It just seems like we are light years away from being able to even consider something like that openly. I don't know if it can ever work. But it doesn't mean it's wrong about the monetary system. The monetary system is the root problem of damn near everything. Massive failures are built into it, there are always going to be a contingent of people that HAVE to be **** on for most of their lives for the system to work. There's no option, it HAS to happen. We depend on it. So there will always be poverty, there will always be war under this system. Corruption is inherent, it's not a byproduct of the system, but the foundation, it's a necessity.

It's just so involving, the money you have in your pocket right now isn't even yours. Every dollar you have is owed to someone else. There is no paying off the national debt, it will never happen. Ever. There's always more owed back than there is ever out in circulation.

I don't know if you mean that we don' t have the technology to create abundance and automate human labory. Because we do. In fact even Tesla talked about free energy and how to give it to the people. Or watch Jacque Fresco in Larry King in 1974 showcasing his designs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCH0BQ2nSMo
In the 3rd movie Zeitgeist: Moving Forward that hits theaters with a global release on 1/15/2011 many Academic figures of today address the way we can start the transition towards a Recource Based Economy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYLLFpNn4lM

 

[Marx]

Apparently, the unemployment rate has gone down to 9.4 percent. (It's important to keep in mind that that rate does not include underemployed or those who have given up.)

 

[Alex_Spider]

There is still evil when government is non existent. The root of all evil is greed. All politicians are greedy and want to stay in office so they make deals under the table. They don't care about their duty, they care about keeping their job.

Very true..I even used to be optimistic about Obama before watching the Zeitgeist documentaries.

 

[Kelly]

Apparently, the unemployment rate has gone down to 9.4 percent. (It's important to keep in mind that that rate does not include underemployed or those who have given up.)

Or teachers in many states, charity organization workers, church workers, etc....