Discussion: The Iraq War

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sinewave, Apr 13, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. StorminNorman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    30,519
    Likes Received:
    2
    The idea that the thought of a World Police is wrong seems strange considering the UN was meant to be a World Police. The reason America assumes that role is because the UN is ineffective, incompetent and corrupt as hell.

    America should leave it, stop pumping in Billions of Dollars into it and implode the damn building it rests in.
     
  2. Carcharodon Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2001
    Messages:
    14,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Right, because our economy will support that role indefinitely.

    How much did Iraq cost, again?

    "I'm taking my toys and going home."

    Brilliant.
     
  3. StorminNorman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    30,519
    Likes Received:
    2
    We have to be smarter about the finances, no argument here.

    It's more like this...

    Say you hire a security service to protect your business. And you pay good money for this security firm to protect your business. And instead of securing your business, they take your money and pay people to come break into your business and rob from you.

    Is it smart, logical or in any way sane to keep paying them. :huh:
     
  4. Carcharodon Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2001
    Messages:
    14,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not arguing that the U.N. isn't at all corrupt (I agree that it IS), but I see a problem with withdrawing completely as opposed to making an attempt at correcting the problems and making the U.N. more effective.

    "Screw you guys, I'm going home," doesn't seem like an effective foreign policy, not matter how justified we may feel.
     
  5. StorminNorman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    30,519
    Likes Received:
    2
    What if the UN isn't fixable? Now I have no problem with an effective and credible international body made up of nations - but I think the UN is too twisted, too corrupt, too far gone to salvage.

    But you aren't going home. I am not proposing America become isolationist. America will still be in Africa combating AIDS and malaria and hunger - we will still be the most benevolent, generous and charitable country in the world.
     
    #5480 StorminNorman, Apr 21, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  6. sinewave Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    14,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    this is off topic. sube, please delete it since you seem to think that anything off topic should be deleted.
     
  7. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
    That's not necessary Sin. Commenting on the thread is not off topic, attacking a poster is off topic.

    Let's stick to the topic.
     
  8. sinewave Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    14,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    i'm not attacking anyone. i just want things to be fair around here. certain mods are apparently above the rules and i'm sick of it.
     
  9. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
    There's alot to be said for tone. And referring to posters as irrational and dumb isn't the best idea. Publicly discussing infractions is also not a good idea. I would be happy to talk with you in PMs.

    Publicly, let's stick to the topic.
     
  10. VampElvis Pimbot Threadkiller

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe a fair tax for the UN? Everyone pays an equal percentage of their GDP, with the 5 Security Council Nations perhaps paying a larger percentage. But in not way with the USA paying 25-30% or whatever it is of the total budget.
     
  11. SuBe Voluntaryist

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    2
    I do not believe we should be paying anymore to the UN at all, and a FairTax for the UN? No. Membership Fees, equal to every Nation. Not more just because that nation has a higher GDP.
     
  12. hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    To be fair, the United States and United Nations sorta forced those agreements upon Iraq.

    I just think that it was an inappropriate use of military power when there are bigger fish to fry like Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc. I think that we should have helped the Iraqi people overthrow Saddam, but the overall responsibility for bringing freedom to Iraq should have gone to the Iraqi people.
     
  13. StorminNorman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    30,519
    Likes Received:
    2
    Irrelevant. If they didn't agree to our ends, we would of eliminated Saddam then. The point is that if America wants Diplomacy to work, it has to be feared. A resolution does nothing if it has no teeth - America, prior to the Iraq War, was all gums.

    I can agree, Iraq may of not been the best first target. But that does not make the word unjustified. It just means that there were other wars we could of fought that would of been just as justified.

    Also, it's funny that you mention Syria because the Iraq War did impact Syria. Syria gave up its weapons BECAUSE of the Iraq War.
     
  14. hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hence why there needs to be major reform in the United Nations. Thanks to the situations in Iraq and North Korea, it is on the verge of becoming the next League of Nations.

    Hey, just because I don't agree with the Iraq War doesn't mean that I don't see that good things have come out of it. We got rid of an evil man. The Iraqi people are now starting to see the opportunity of freedom. Syria and Lybia got rid of their weapons programs.
     
  15. StorminNorman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    30,519
    Likes Received:
    2
    The League of Nations was better than the UN. The League of Nations was simply inept and incompetent. The UN is all of that and a bag of corruption.

    I understand entirely - which is why I was a bit taken aback by your original statement. It's likely we just disagree, mainly, on wording.
     
  16. hippie_hunter The King is Back!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Messages:
    53,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think we just disagree on a very few minor principals. I think that the Iraq War shouldn't have happened in the first place, but it has happened, and instead of dwelling of what should and shouldn't have happened, we need to look at the now and the future. And the now and the future are so far showing a much brighter future for Iraq than say a couple of years ago.
     
  17. DACrowe Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    30,766
    Likes Received:
    615
    Ah, but for an anticipatory war, the burden of proof and justification is higher than in any other. Frankly put, saying Iraq was a "rogue nation" that ignored UN sanctions and hates America is not enough to justify war. Because, as others have pointed out, there are many corrupt undemocratic states with leaders that spit anti-American venom and the UN resolutions were not enough to differentiate this state for war. Iraq, due to the sanctions and control we had, was not a threat. WMDs and a fictional claim of al-Qaeda and Saddam being in league together was what made the war justifiable.

    Except they (or we) were wrong. And when you are wrong about why you went to war, then it does become an unjust war, because you likely conduct that war unjustly (Abu Grhaib, sanctioned torture, etc). And I am aware of the benefits that would have occurred had the Bush Administration's plan worked and Iraq became a US-friendly oil-producing democracy in the region. But economic gain is NOT a justifiable reason for war. That would justify Saddam's initial excursion into Kuwait or Hitler's into Poland. Power and money does not a just war make.
     
  18. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
  19. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
  20. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
    Has anyone seen the reports suggesting that Iraqi insurgents have been successfully able to hack US drones?
     
  21. StorminNorman Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    30,519
    Likes Received:
    2
    That's no bueno.
     
  22. Paradyme Please Remain Calm

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    I heard about it on the news this morning. I guess the Russians are selling the technology and it's only costing $26 or something or other...

    Edit: Here's the link

     
    #5497 Paradyme, Dec 17, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
  23. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeah. It's a little unsettling to think that our drones are being hacked for under $26.
     
  24. Paradoxium Making Your Head Explode

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    22,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    That would explain why they are using missiles against Pakistan now instead of by drone bombers.
     
    #5499 Paradoxium, Dec 17, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
  25. Marx Pixelated

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    55,033
    Likes Received:
    3
    I was under the impression that the use of drones in Pakistan had increased. I remember reading about it in an article.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"