Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party - Part 16

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[SV Fan]

The Republicans should have just let this go through, chilled, gave their opinion, passed something that showed an up or down vote for or against it, simply as a symbolic vote to put on record where each congressman stands and leave it at that...move on to other things.

I think the Republicans are banking being the Macho Men when it comes to foreign policy is their key to victory, so they want to make this fight as public as possible. Looks like the neoCONs are coming out of the woodwork.

I may not be a fan of social conservatives but I at least think in their minds they have good intentions for what they believe in, the CONs are just plain crooks looking to pack their pocket books and use fear tactics to try get their way. All that being said put the social conservatives and neocons together that is the unholy alliance of politics for me(ie their is no way I can support any candidate having the backing of these 2 groups)

 

[Anubis]

As stupid as the GOP's move is, I think calling it treason is a bit hyperbolic. And it's not like the Democrats have any moral high ground on this issue in regards to using Congress to circumvent the President on foreign policy.

Jon Stewart kinda sums it up perfectly IMO:
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ial564/under-miner

So essentially, both sides are full of s**t.

 

[childeroland]

Republicans Feeling Heat Over Iran Letter Express Regrets

(Bloomberg) -- At least a few of the Republican senators feeling the backlash from signing an open letter to Iran’s leaders are expressing some second thoughts.

Amid mounting criticism from allies, home-state editorial boards and colleagues who opted not to sign the missive, U.S. Senator Ron Johnson became the latest Republican to suggest he might do things differently if given another chance.

While Johnson said he stood by the content of the letter, which warned Iran that any deal with President Barack Obama might not outlast his term in office, he said it probably shouldn’t have been directed to leaders of the Islamic Republic.

‘I suppose the only regret is who it’s addressed to,’’ Johnson said at a Bloomberg breakfast in Washington. The Wisconsin Republican said it may have been a “tactical error” and that the letter could have been addressed to Obama’s administration or the American people.

Arizona Senator John McCain, a prominent Republican voice on foreign affairs and national security, has said haste and an impending snowstorm in Washington short-circuited more measured consideration of the letter.

“It was kind of a very rapid process. Everybody was looking forward to getting out of town because of the snowstorm,” McCain told Politico in an interview. “I think we probably should have had more discussion about it, given the blowback that there is.”
Scolding, Disdain

The White House, which was facing pushback on the Iran nuclear negotiations from some Democrats as well as Republicans, seized on the letter to argue that Republicans were making foreign policy a partisan issue. Obama and his aides have responded with a mix of scolding and disdain.

The president told reporters at the White House on Monday that the lawmakers seemed to be “wanting to make common cause with the hardliners in Iran.” In a recorded interview with the website Vice, an excerpt of which was released Friday, Obama said, “I’m embarrassed for them.”

The White House and Democratic campaign organizations have been e-mailing links to newspaper editorials from around the country denouncing the letter.
Ally Reaction

European allies who also are party to the Iran negotiations have condemned the letter as counterproductive.

“Suddenly, Iran can say to us: ‘Are your proposals actually trustworthy if 47 senators say that no matter what the government agrees to, we can subsequently take it off the table?’” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said Thursday during remarks at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

“This is no small matter we’re talking about,” Steinmeier said. “This is not just an issue of American domestic politics.”

The letter has shifted attention from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s speech earlier this month to a joint meeting of Congress. His presence, at the invitation of House Speaker John Boehner, and remarks had forced the White House to defend the framework of a nuclear deal.

Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker of Tennessee, who didn’t sign the letter and is shepherding legislation that would require congressional approval for any nuclear deal with Iran, said it wasn’t helpful to his efforts to round up Democratic votes for the measure.

The letter was signed by 47 of the 54 Republican senators, including four who are considering bids for the party’s 2016 presidential nomination.

One of the candidates, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, said on NBC’s “Today Show” Wednesday that the letter was intended to “strengthen the president’s hand” in negotiations.

No Republican has stepped back from the content of the letter, which warned Iran that any agreement they struck with Obama to curb its nuclear program may be reversed by his successor or changed by U.S. lawmakers. McCain told reporters he was “glad” to have signed it.

Ohio Senator Rob Portman said he thinks the letter will help move the negotiators toward a deal that will be more limiting on Iran’s nuclear program.

It “reminds those negotiators at the table, on the other side of the table from us, that this has to be a verifiable, strong agreement that actually ends their nuclear weapons program,” Portman told reporters at the Capitol Thursday.

South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham said he doesn’t have any second thoughts about sending the letter.

“At the end of the day, I want the ayatollah to understand that our president doesn’t have the ability on his own to waive congressional sanctions without our input and he is claiming he has that right,” Graham said on Fox News. “This is a constitutional crisis in the making. No Senate or House should ever let any president do away with congressional sanctions created by the bodies without their approval.”

 

[Kelly]

They should be feeling heat....that was ridiculous.

Do they not remember how pissed they were when Pelosi met with Assad....politicians have the shortest memories.

 

[SV Fan]

They should be feeling heat....that was ridiculous.

I don't know why Cotton didn't just write an OP ed piece and get other Senators to sign it, could have gotten the exact same message over without looking so bad. Given that Cotton gets tons of cash from the Israel and Military Industrial Complex lobbyists I wonder who was pushing him to do this and thought it was a good idea(I really wish the media would start asking him who his Sugar Daddies are in regards to this story).

 

[Kelly]

Give'um time, they are actually working on Hillary at the moment...

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't know why Cotton didn't just write an OP ed piece and get other Senators to sign it, could have gotten the exact same message over without looking so bad. Given that Cotton gets tons of cash from the Israel and Military Industrial Complex lobbyists I wonder who was pushing him to do this and thought it was a good idea(I really wish the media would start asking him who his Sugar Daddies are in regards to this story).

I don't think Cotton's financial supporters is that big of a deal in this case. The guy has clearly demonstrated that he's an extremist neo-con in the mold of Lindsey Graham, Dick Cheney, and John McCain ever since his political career started. While his policies are stupid, the guy is at least consistent in his ignorant foreign policy beliefs.

 

[SV Fan]

I don't think Cotton's financial supporters is that big of a deal in this case.

The guy went to talk to defense contractor lobbyists a couple days after he sent the letter. I am guessing he thought the letter would be pleasing to them

 

[hippie_hunter]

The guy went to talk to defense contractor lobbyists a couple days after he sent the letter. I am guessing he thought the letter would be pleasing to them

But here's the thing. Stupid people who believe in the things Cotton believes in actually exist. It's one thing if Cotton acted all hypocritical on the issue, but the man has proven to be a consistent ignorant neo-con. While he has ties to the defense industry, he does actually believe in what the military industrial complex is selling.

 

[SV Fan]

But here's the thing. Stupid people who believe in the things Cotton believes in actually exist. It's one thing if Cotton acted all hypocritical on the issue, but the man has proven to be a consistent ignorant neo-con. While he has ties to the defense industry, he does actually believe in what the military industrial complex is selling.

Does he believe what they are selling or is he trying to sell what they want people to believe.

It's my belief people who take military industrial complex cash are selling out for their own personal political gain

 

[hippie_hunter]

No, there are people who genuinely believe in this stupid ****. Like I said, stupidity actually exists.

 

[SV Fan]

No, there are people who genuinely believe in this stupid ****. Like I said, stupidity actually exists.

Here is the problem when you take money from somebody, you know they have their personal interests behind it. What good can people whose personal interest is building military equipment have? You can at least argue with something like Big Oil they want to create a system that will create more jobs, military contractors want to just create war for profit

 

[Marvolo]

Major Gen. Paul D. Eaton's thoughts on Tom Cotton's actions:

“I would use the word mutinous,” said Eaton, whose long career includes training Iraqi forces from 2003 to 2004. He is now a senior adviser to VoteVets.org. “I do not believe these senators were trying to sell out America. I do believe they defied the chain of command in what could be construed as an illegal act.” Eaton certainly had stern words for Cotton.

“What Senator Cotton did is a gross breach of discipline, and especially as a veteran of the Army, he should know better,” Eaton told me. “I have no issue with Senator Cotton, or others, voicing their opinion in opposition to any deal to halt Iran’s nuclear progress. Speaking out on these issues is clearly part of his job. But to directly engage a foreign entity, in this way, undermining the strategy and work of our diplomats and our Commander in Chief, strains the very discipline and structure that our foreign relations depend on, to succeed.” The consequences of Cotton’s missive were plainly apparent to Eaton. “The breach of discipline is extremely dangerous, because undermining our diplomatic efforts, at this moment, brings us another step closer to a very costly and perilous war with Iran,” he said.

“I think Senator Cotton recognizes this, and he simply does not care,” Eaton went on to say. “That’s what disappoints me the most.” And that’s what’s so scary about this whole episode. The freshman senator from Arkansas and 46 of his Republican colleagues sought to bigfoot Obama on a deal not yet done whose details are not yet known.

In his column today, Michael Gerson makes a point that should have been obvious to all the signatories of the Cotton letter.

If Republican senators want to make the point that an Iran deal requires a treaty, they should make that case to the American people, not to the Iranians. Congress simply has no business conducting foreign policy with a foreign government, especially an adversarial one. Every Republican who pictures his or her feet up on the Resolute Desk should fear this precedent.

This is a point you imagine Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would have made back in the good old days when he was a statesman. Instead, he signed the letter.

“I expect better from the men and women who wore the uniform,” Eaton said of Cotton. And the American people deserve better from the Senate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/03/13/tom-cotton-picked-apart-by-army-general-over-mutinous-iran-letter/

I agree, and think the GOP needs to put this rookie in his place regardless of the party's goals and agendas. If Cotton had pulled a stunt like this while in the military his CO would have nailed him to the wall. Cotton's too big for his britches. Our chain of command and protocols exist for a reason. Ignoring them puts people in danger. We don't need a war if we can avoid it, and since Cotton won't be the one fighting in a war with Iran he needs to take a step back and behave like a mature rational adult and not like a child who ran to mom because dad said he couldn't do what he wanted.

 

[Kelly]

though it was EXTREMELY STUPID....others have actually met with the leaders of countries like Syria, etc....even after the President and State Department asked them not to...and nothing was done.

Stupid, stupid, stupid yes....but if we are looking at this overstepping what the Legislative Branch is supposed to do, then we need to look at all branches at the moment, because the whole "fam damily" is messed up.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Here is the problem when you take money from somebody, you know they have their personal interests behind it. What good can people whose personal interest is building military equipment have? You can at least argue with something like Big Oil they want to create a system that will create more jobs, military contractors want to just create war for profit

Ummmm.....Cotton's district holds some military bases. Keeping defense contractors gives him the personal interest of his constituents having jobs and thus they will continue to vote for him.

And again, the guy is an extremist neo-con. His personal ideology is essentially all about giving lots and lots of money to military equipment companies.

 

[SV Fan]

And again, the guy is an extremist neo-con. His personal ideology is essentially all about giving lots and lots of money to military equipment companies.

I guess as long as he doesn't try and tell me he is all about cutting out wasteful government spending because if that is the case he is part of the problem and not the solution.

I still say though that anybody who is all for spending boatloads of cash on defense equipment has to know at some level how wasteful it is at times

 

[hippie_hunter]

I guess as long as he doesn't try and tell me he is all about cutting out wasteful government spending because if that is the case he is part of the problem and not the solution.

Like I said, the guy is an idiot. Genuine, but still stupid.

I still say though that anybody who is all for spending boatloads of cash on defense equipment has to know at some level how wasteful it is at times

Neo-cons don't believe that defense spending is wasteful. An extremely bloated defense budget is a core component of neo-conservative ideology. It's a big reason why defense companies are extremely supportive of candidates like Cotton because they are firm believers in the MID and will vote to continue funding needless projects.

 

[SV Fan]

Like I said, the guy is an idiot. Genuine, but still stupid.

Neo-cons don't believe that defense spending is wasteful. An extremely bloated defense budget is a core component of neo-conservative ideology. It's a big reason why defense companies are extremely supportive of candidates like Cotton because they are firm believers in the MID and will vote to continue funding needless projects.

The guy went to Harvard and was a Rhode's Scholar, I don't think he is that naive or stupid even if he is the most super idiological person in the world. At some point even they must realize we don't need that extra 100 tanks when we have 200 of last year's model sitting in a yard in Nevada. It's sort of like that Democrat who gets tons of Wall Street cash, they at some point must know that yeah maybe this isn't the best policy for everybody but it pays my campaign bills.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Just because the guy is intelligent doesn't mean that he's blinded by ideology. Lots of people can be intelligent and still be blinded to facts that conflict with their personal political ideology.

And a huge reason why we have such a large surplus that goes beyond what we need is because Congressmen want to provide their constituents with jobs. They don't want to be the guy responsible for shutting down a military factory or base that hired thousands of people in their district. Bringing home the bacon is a basic part of the Congressional job.

 

[Tech]

Just because the guy is intelligent doesn't mean that he's blinded by ideology. Lots of people can be intelligent and still be blinded to facts that conflict with their personal political ideology.

Agreed....Cotton may be intelligent,educated individual but he's made a pact with neocon crowd, which motivated to write this irresponsible letter.

 

[Kelly]

I can assure you, that those that voted Cotton into office, know exactly where he is coming from, agree with him, and have absolutely no problem with the letter, whatsoever. He IS representing his constituents, and a fair number that just didn't vote, agree with him as well. It is a small majority around here that disagree with him.

So, we can call it stupid, irresponsible, or even throw treason out there, but he is representing the people that put him office, and a fair number of people that just didn't vote but still agree.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time Arkansans did something treasonous. This is the state that declared war on the United States. Not to mention the crazy stuff in the 60's.

I always laugh when Southerners call themselves patriotic, while hating the federal government, and entertaining ideas of seceding.

 

[summerteeth]

Major Gen. Paul D. Eaton's thoughts on Tom Cotton's actions:



I agree, and think the GOP needs to put this rookie in his place regardless of the party's goals and agendas. If Cotton had pulled a stunt like this while in the military his CO would have nailed him to the wall. Cotton's too big for his britches. Our chain of command and protocols exist for a reason. Ignoring them puts people in danger. We don't need a war if we can avoid it, and since Cotton won't be the one fighting in a war with Iran he needs to take a step back and behave like a mature rational adult and not like a child who ran to mom because dad said he couldn't do what he wanted.

It's not like he went and did this on his own. I'm pretty sure the party is supportive of it and I don't think it is a coincidence that they chose Cotton, a vet, to send the letter. I think they are purposely trying to raise his profile.