Discussion: The War On Drugs, Legalization of Marijuana, The Opioid Crisis, and Other Drug Issues

Obama is ignoring the fact that if he had been arrested with the copious amounts of weed he used to smoke on a daily basis, he wouldn't be able to get a job as the leader of Burger King let alone a job as the leader of the free world.
 
That being said, I would like to drill into the data and breakout the chart by ages and other demographics.
 
I had an argument with a hard core republican who hates welfare, the thought of free health care, hand outs, charities, and seems to hate pot with a passion and is glad it's illegal. I asked him why is he glad, when potheads don't hurt no one, they don't hurt you, and the only way it's making a dent in your life is the tax money the government takes from you to fight this ridiculous war on pot. He claims it's a very dangerous drug, even though I asked him to please give me an example, because I'm going to say, 4 out of 5 people I know smoke pot, and they live perfectly fine, funtioning lives as well as the one person who doesn't smoke it.

Why is the government dragging their feet with the legalization of it? Why not let the people vote for it, once and for all? And mind you, this is coming from someone who does not smoke pot. I just think the way the government is handling it is just beyond stupid.
 
I had an argument with a hard core republican who hates welfare, the thought of free health care, hand outs, charities, and seems to hate pot with a passion and is glad it's illegal. I asked him why is he glad, when potheads don't hurt no one, they don't hurt you, and the only way it's making a dent in your life is the tax money the government takes from you to fight this ridiculous war on pot. He claims it's a very dangerous drug, even though I asked him to please give me an example, because I'm going to say, 4 out of 5 people I know smoke pot, and they live perfectly fine, funtioning lives as well as the one person who doesn't smoke it.

Why is the government dragging their feet with the legalization of it? Why not let the people vote for it, once and for all? And mind you, this is coming from someone who does not smoke pot. I just think the way the government is handling it is just beyond stupid.

They enjoy wasting your money on dumb **** like enforcing drug laws and the military. Legalize it and they will be lost on what dumb **** to blow our money on then.
 
Oh, the government will always find ways to spend money.

And now that they've seen how much tax money Colorado has been bringing in, various levels of government have perked up.
 
And now that they've seen how much tax money Colorado has been bringing in, various levels of government have perked up.

Any politician who didn't realize all the money ending the prohibition on marijuana would save(jailing, war on drugs, etc) and make(taxes) before Colorado legalized it is a moron
 
Good news, everyone!

The Supreme Court refused to hear a case presented by Nebraska and Oklahoma who claim marijuana trafficking has increased due to a legal market in Colorado.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ado-oklahoma-nebraska-supreme-court/81984006/

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court refused Monday to referee a simmering dispute between Colorado and two neighboring states over the cross-border impact of marijuana legalization, heartening legalization advocates who feared the high court could have rolled back their gains.

The justices denied an effort by Oklahoma and Nebraska to bring their grievances about pot-related crime directly to the nation's highest court without seeking to go through lower courts first. Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented, saying they would have heard the states' complaint.
 
It's less important because having an entire playground full of drugs is not, however much you'd like it to be, the same as the freedom to choose who you marry. And let's please not create some fantasy where the tax revenue collected as a result of marijuana regulation actually gets allocated to things as logically as you assume. It's probably getting assimilated into some other already bloated budget item.

The "institutional racism" bit was meant to encompass all the law enforcement aspects because there is a disproportionate number of arrests racially.

But this is all chaff distracting from the real thing, while many weed-aficianados have memorized and recited all the nice things like tax revenue, decreased arrests and all the other pleasant factoids the simple fact is they don't actually give a **** about those as much as they give a **** about being able to do what they want in peace, so let's not pretend your personal objective here isn't to be able to enjoy your habit as hassle-free as possible, tax revenue and decreased arrests or not, you'd still want weed legal.

RE: "Carl Sagans and Steve Jobs" - let's also not pretend the dunce working a job at a Kinkos copy desk is somehow going to start up a Fortune 500 company just because he can suddenly blaze up 5 days out of the week. Marijuana usage before a certain age and the use of other psychedelics have been implicated in brain chemistry abnormalities and developed dependencies by people that, you know, actually research this stuff. While I agree that marijuana regulation and access needs to be looked at more carefully this horse **** about psychedelics having universally transformative properties needs to be nipped in the bud (puntended). Guess what, for people with genetically predisposed weakness (like schizophrenics) to marijuana they could become unproductive wrecks for the rest of their lives, not exactly the Steve Jobs dream.

The personal freedom argument will take you only so far with the general public. For legalization to take root the average person needs to understand how prohibition hurts society as a whole and how it's safer than alcohol and cigarettes (I can take meds for schizophrenia, lung cancer and liver disease are far more problematic)

I never said that everyone who used psychedelics or cannabis would be the next Steve Jobs or Carl Sagan.

But using psychedlics isn't always a stupid, mindless activity and not all tokers are slow witted burn outs bagging people's groceries. There are lawyers, doctors, novelist, engineers, business leaders, astrophysicists, etc who enjoy cannabis.

So go nip your stereotypes in the bud.
 
Lol, like I said, there are various religions and intellectuals (like Aldous Huxley and Steve Jobs) who used psychedelics to percieve things they normally couldn't.

Many of these people are far more brilliant than you could ever hope to be.

Have a nice life :whatever:

If great ideas come from recreational drug use then that's fine and dandy. My beef with your argument stems 150% from you suggesting that there should be a constitutional amendment to protect the right to do drugs. You don't see the idiocy in that suggestion? There are a lot of people who use gambling as a drug. There are people who use food as a drug. In your perfect world would this amendment have to be so specific to include only the drugs you think will give us the next iPad? It's absurd. It's beyond absurd.

I support the legalization of marijuana. If taxed and regulated properly I think it'll be another fine product on the market consumers can either take part in or not. To suggest that doing ANY drug is a constitutional right is so unbelievably selfish that I can hardly wrap my mind around it, however. You're talking about legalizing a product. Nothing more.
 
The personal freedom argument will take you only so far with the general public. For legalization to take root the average person needs to understand how prohibition hurts society as a whole and how it's safer than alcohol and cigarettes (I can take meds for schizophrenia, lung cancer and liver disease are far more problematic)

I never said that everyone who used psychedelics or cannabis would be the next Steve Jobs or Carl Sagan.

But using psychedlics isn't always a stupid, mindless activity and not all tokers are slow witted burn outs bagging people's groceries. There are lawyers, doctors, novelist, engineers, business leaders, astrophysicists, etc who enjoy cannabis.

So go nip your stereotypes in the bud.

The funny thing is you keep mentioning "The public must know how prohibition hurts society" but you don't seem to mention "The public must be aware of the dangers of marijuana".

You're selfishly trying to advocate for liberal use of your pet substance without much consideration for the potential wider implications.

I'd attempt to have a reasonable discussion with you but anyone who says "I can just take meds for schizophrenia" is clearly not actually thinking straight. I've engaged with you on marijuana before, and each and every time you look past the issues related to ensuring that it is available but that it is also safe, because you don't care, you just want to be able to use your drug as much, as cheaply and as conveniently as possible.

"Using psychedelics isn't always stupid" - Until we get some data to substantiate that I'll stick with my personal experience, everyone I've ever met that's been an enthusiastic advocate of drug use has been a disappointingly mediocre person.
 
The funny thing is you keep mentioning "The public must know how prohibition hurts society" but you don't seem to mention "The public must be aware of the dangers of marijuana".

You're selfishly trying to advocate for liberal use of your pet substance without much consideration for the potential wider implications.

I'd attempt to have a reasonable discussion with you but anyone who says "I can just take meds for schizophrenia" is clearly not actually thinking straight. I've engaged with you on marijuana before, and each and every time you look past the issues related to ensuring that it is available but that it is also safe, because you don't care, you just want to be able to use your drug as much, as cheaply and as conveniently as possible.

"Using psychedelics isn't always stupid" - Until we get some data to substantiate that I'll stick with my personal experience, everyone I've ever met that's been an enthusiastic advocate of drug use has been a disappointingly mediocre person.

Are there side effects to cannabis? Sure.

But lets look at the rate of schizophrenia cases vs the rate of cannabis use. Since the 1950's cannabis use has skyrocketed but the percentage of schizophrenia has remained steady at 1 percent.

There are problems with eating too much cannabis but this could be helped by educating new users via clear warnings on the packaging and budtenders being forced to warn customers. At the end of the day, in almost all cases of eating too much edibles you end up in the ER for discomfort. People aren't dying from it like you see from cigarettes, alcohol, fast food and prescription drugs.

Now, having acknowledged the drawbacks, I fully believe the benefits of legalization outweigh these problems. Especially when you compare other vices we tolerate as a society that kill hundreds of thousands of people EVERY YEAR. Cannabis edibles can send you to the ER because of a bad trip and a fraction of the population may trigger their latent schizophrenia but it won't kill people. This distinction cannot be overstated.

Now you say I look past issues when debating and I honestly don't know what you're refferring to. Maybe I refuse to agree with you but that doesn't mean I'm not addressing your points.

And there is plenty of data that brilliant people have used psychedelics and benefitted from their use. Not all of them turn into an obsessed advocate like Timothy Leary but the man who discovered LSD, Albert Hoffman, was incredibly intelligent and while he regretted LSD being used as a party drug in the 60's he explained the drug had untapped potential and secretly microdosed annually until he died at the ripe age of 102. He was not a senile, mad scientist. He gave sharp, articulate speeches about LSD to large crowds even at the age of 100.

You don't know brilliant psychonaughts for 2 reasons:

1) Most people aren't brilliant and most people haven't tried or disclosed the use of psychedelics.

2) You refuse to use google to look up historical examples.

George Carlin, Iggy Pop, Lewis Black, Marilyn Manson, Carl Sagan, Patton Oswalt, Robin Williams, Quentin Tarantino, Sarah Silverman, Stephen Fry, Ethel Kennedy, Jean-Paul Sartre, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Oliver Sacks, Anthony Bourdain, Stanley Kubrick, Eckhart Tolle, Havelock Ellis, Lewis Black, Abraham Maslow (Of Maslow's hierarchy of needs), Ray Charles, Eric Clapton, Doc Ellis, Jerry Garcia, Bill Hicks, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, John Belushi, Kevin Smith, Eminem Jack Nicholson, Cary Grant, Matt Groening, Angelina Jolie Jim Morrison, Francis Crick, Aldous Huxley, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, Richard Feynman Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon, Paul McCartney and many, many more have used psychedelics.

If you think these people are mediocre then I'd like you to list your accomplishments.
 
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I really don't know why you are arguing with him, Dead President. The idea of "freedom of personality" (which is only truly enabled by drug use) is absolutely absurd. Messiah Decoy is arguing for attention and you are giving it to him. You'd be better served by just ignoring his ridiculous ramblings.
 
Any drug legalization lobby will fail as long as you have people who are claiming that it's for Freedom of Personality, or that the drugs will unlock some higher creative potential in people. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who claims these as the reasons drugs should be legalized. That's by and large a juvenile and selfish reason.

I support the legalization of marijuana from an economic and social standpoint. I think there's a lot of tax revenue to be had and I think it's wrong so many rot in jail because of it. That's really the extent of the argument. Anything else and you wind up talking like a teenager who just heard his first Pink Floyd album and feels enlightened.
 
You made me want to so i went lsitening to DSotM again, wow i feel really enlightned and want to legalize weed.

Of course it is gonna be legalized for social and economical standpoint because it is the reason why it was banned and why the us voted a law and apllied it in other countries. Now that they can make a buisness out of it they do and are gonna rule the market and makes ton of money.

Freedom of people and enhanced creativity already happened it was called the 60's and Bob Dylan, a develloper friend told me google offers you a joint for your first interview for a job. We don't need to legalized it for those reason because it's already the case, the first people that used it where the creative and "freedom personality fighter". The ones you need to argue with are the capitalist not them.
 
I really don't know why you are arguing with him, Dead President. The idea of "freedom of personality" (which is only truly enabled by drug use) is absolutely absurd. Messiah Decoy is arguing for attention and you are giving it to him. You'd be better served by just ignoring his ridiculous ramblings.

You keep putting words in my mouth.

I never said the only way to develop your personality was drugs but obviously anything that can alter your spiritual beliefs and general perspective can influence how you interpret and approach life.

I wonder how many people who scoff at my points have ever had a powerful psychedelic experiences. If they haven't then how can dismiss concepts they couldn't possibly fully comprehend.
 
ApophènX;33858685 said:
You made me want to so i went lsitening to DSotM again, wow i feel really enlightned and want to legalize weed.

Of course it is gonna be legalized for social and economical standpoint because it is the reason why it was banned and why the us voted a law and apllied it in other countries. Now that they can make a buisness out of it they do and are gonna rule the market and makes ton of money.

What? The US made a law and applied it in other countries?

Freedom of people and enhanced creativity already happened it was called the 60's and Bob Dylan, a develloper friend told me google offers you a joint for your first interview for a job. We don't need to legalized it for those reason because it's already the case, the first people that used it where the creative and "freedom personality fighter". The ones you need to argue with are the capitalist not them.

I cannot take you seriously. You think one of the largest companies in the world offers people an ILLEGAL drug during the interview? Do you see how crazy that sounds. This entire post is so meandering I don't know what you're saying.
 
I really don't know why you are arguing with him, Dead President. The idea of "freedom of personality" (which is only truly enabled by drug use) is absolutely absurd. Messiah Decoy is arguing for attention and you are giving it to him. You'd be better served by just ignoring his ridiculous ramblings.

Yeah, I think you're right, I'm going to spend my energy slightly more constructively.
 
You keep putting words in my mouth.

I never said the only way to develop your personality was drugs but obviously anything that can alter your spiritual beliefs and general perspective can influence how you interpret and approach life.

I wonder how many people who scoff at my points have ever had a powerful psychedelic experiences. If they haven't then how can dismiss concepts they couldn't possibly fully comprehend.

This right here is why people aren't taking your arguments seriously. You have the superiority that you think doing drugs gives you. It's arrogant and condescending.
 
Calling it quits? Good for you, Dead President! :up:

So anyways I find it odd that most Americans believe humans have soul but completely write off the idea that dreams and psychedelic experiences could actually have spiritual significance.

I mean if the concept of a soul isn't far fetched then why would spiritual dreams and spiritual drug experiences?

Wine is blood of Christ that you swallow to bring you closer to God but a drug that gives you a vivid and powerful vision of the spiritual realm is evil and should be avoided like the plague.

It seems many people only accept the reality handed to them without questioning what rules are arbitrary and hypocritical.
 
This right here is why people aren't taking your arguments seriously. You have the superiority that you think doing drugs gives you. It's arrogant and condescending.

That not drugs I'm arguing gives me insight and credibility, it's actual experience.

It's like when someone with no kids lectures a parent who raised a few kids what they did and did not experience raising a child.

How can you lecture people about the limitations of an experience you never had?
 
That not drugs I'm arguing gives me insight and credibility, it's actual experience.

It's like when someone with no kids lectures a parent who raised a few kids what they did and did not experience raising a child.

How can you lecture people about the limitations of an experience you never had?

That's a ******** argument. Steaming pile of moist ********. I've never played professional football but I know full well when my team ****s the bed. I've never directed a hollywood film but I know when I see a bad one, or a good one. It's a weak argument meant to give the arguer a false sense of superiority when actual evidence does not exist to support said argument.
 
This right here is why people aren't taking your arguments seriously. You have the superiority that you think doing drugs gives you. It's arrogant and condescending.

All we need for Trump to realize his preordained and exalted presidential ability is for him to take some peyote apparently :up:
 

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