Discussion: UK Politics

[Lily Adler]

I looked at the article and it's referring to the 2017 general election, so that clearly didn't work because Corbyn still was leader and only stepped down recently after losing the 2019 general election in December.

Oops my mistake you're right. Labour didn't want Corbyn and were upset how he did in 2017 and wanted someone else to lead the party and orchestrated a smear campaign from within. Even used McCarthyism against Corbyn.

 

[Iceman]

Corbyn smears himself lol, doesn’t need much assistance on that front.

 

[kit1982]

Christ if only they'd been successful we might not have a Bojo majority government.

 

[Iceman]

If Starmer had been there instead of Corbyn all this time I think we would be in a much better position right now.

 

[kit1982]

I can't overstate just how much of a problem Corbyn was on the doorstep. My town had been Labour for 80 years and the Tories ended up with a 10,000 majority.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I can't overstate just how much of a problem Corbyn was on the doorstep. My town had been Labour for 80 years and the Tories ended up with a 10,000 majority.

Politics being a popularity contest more so then a question of actual policy was a problem for Corbyn. But it's also a display of how dumb a lot of voters are. I have a hard time looking at anyone who votes to the left of center and has an issue with Corbyn. Because well, he almost always made sense from a left POV imo, even if he could come off arrogant as heck.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Corbyn smears himself lol, doesn’t need much assistance on that front.

The antisemitism stuff was an all time hit job imo.

 

[Iceman]

The antisemitism stuff was an all time hit job imo.

There was no hit job required on Corbyn. He can be judged solely on what has come from his own mouth without it needing to be twisted by anyone. The only time he kept quiet was during the once in a lifetime Brexit vote. He turned off so many lifelong Labour supporters and obviously didn’t appeal to many outside the party. I had actually forgotten all about the anitsemitism rumours but the game was up long before that even came up.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There was no hit job required on Corbyn. He can be judged solely on what has come from his own mouth without it needing to be twisted by anyone. The only time he kept quiet was during the once in a lifetime Brexit vote. He turned off so many lifelong Labour supporters and obviously didn’t appeal to many outside the party. I had actually forgotten all about the anitsemitism rumours but the game was up long before that even came up.

To be fair, which once in a lifetime Brexit vote? Because it seemingly happened three times, under the Tories.

What is the awful things Corbyn has done or said? Serious question.

Corbyn is rarely judged by what comes out of his mouth imo. Only when it is considered to be an issue for him and even then, it is still a game of twisting his words. He is judged, much like Bernie, by the perception that he is some sort of weird communist trying to give away the world for free, while the other party robs people in broad daylight. In the battle of judging someone solely by what comes out of their mouth, how in the hell did Boris, who lies every single day, get judged a proper choice for prime minister? How are the Tories, who pistol whipped the NHS into a subpar entity forcing those who work there and those that need it services into a horror show, be considered fit in comparsion? Because Corbyn rubs people the wrong way?

I agree he didn't appeal to many lifelong Labour supporters, but that is because a lot of lifelong Labour supporters look and act an awful lot like current Republican supporters in the US. The ideology of someone like Corbyn does appeal to those who already got theirs, and we are currently watching the last generation of a proper middle class age and die out. They fear being asked to pay into a pot they don't think will benefit them. Also well... a bunch of older white people seemingly always have an issue with brown people. And for that, I cannot criticize Corbyn. Britain not having a proper leftist party is sad, much like the US. But that the Tories are in charge, is a judgement of the voters of the UK, not Corbyn. Because Corbyn could be acting like Dylan from Making the Band, and still be a far better choice.

 

[kit1982]

Politics being a popularity contest more so then a question of actual policy was a problem for Corbyn. But it's also a display of how dumb a lot of voters are. I have a hard time looking at anyone who votes to the left of center and has an issue with Corbyn. Because well, he almost always made sense from a left POV imo, even if he could come off arrogant as heck.

Very true. The problem was how he handled himself, despite having the worst government in my lifetime (a government that gave a ferry contract to a business with no ferries ffs) he always managed to mess up holding them to account at pmqs, he is extremely arrogant and deluded, he was a pretty poor orator, his fanbase were toxic and he surrounded himself with people like Seamus Milne.

Edit: I didn't even mention the Brexit policy which was so unclear it was easy to distort.

 

[kit1982]

So we officially passed 20,000 deaths so of course Priti Patel doesn't mention this and instead announces that shoplifting is at a 10 year low...... Fantastic stuff

 

[Sithborg]

I will give you guys this. "Put family in the car and take an hour drive to test my eyesight, which I am unsure of" is still a few steps above "inject yourself with disinifectant".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I will give you guys this. "Put family in the car and take an hour drive to test my eyesight, which I am unsure of" is still a few steps above "inject yourself with disinifectant".

What about the bit of having to get out of the car and sit on a bench for 15 minutes to continue that eye sight check?

 

[Dr Lee]

Yeah, that bit of his statement is too stupid to believe... the rest is logical... though still wrong.

One thing i do find really annoying in this whole thing is that the media and activists are, correctly, pointing out Cummings' faults... but are happily ignoring that Stephen Kinnock drove 200 Miles to sing happy birthday to his dad... and another opposition MP attended two funerals of 15+ people while gatherings of that size were still banned.

It really is one rule at the Tories and another for the rest of Westminster,

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, that bit of his statement is too stupid to believe... the rest is logical... though still wrong.

One thing i do find really annoying in this whole thing is that the media and activists are, correctly, pointing out Cummings' faults... but are happily ignoring that Stephen Kinnock drove 200 Miles to sing happy birthday to his dad... and another opposition MP attended two funerals of 15+ people while gatherings of that size were still banned.

It really is one rule at the Tories and another for the rest of Westminster,

Is it logical? Looking at the guidelines as laid out, the bit he is sighting clearly had to do with domestic abuse. His child was in no real danger, and the entire reason they clearly went up there was to be in a place they wanted to be, to be comfortable, while they were sick.

More importantly while those others things are issues, though i find attending a funeral far more understandable then going up to the country and walking about the woods, they knew they were sick when they did this. They knew it. They knew they were contagious.

 

[Erik20]

Is it logical? Looking at the guidelines as laid out, the bit he is sighting clearly had to do with domestic abuse. His child was in no real danger, and the entire reason they clearly went up there was to be in a place they wanted to be, to be comfortable, while they were sick.

More importantly while those others things are issues, though i find attending a funeral far more understandable then going up to the country and walking about the woods, they knew they were sick when they did this. They knew it. They knew they were contagious.

He's not going to step down. It's all part of the Alt Right playbook on how to handle scandals. Never apologize, never admit you did anything wrong, just ride it out and wait till it blows over.

 

[Dr Lee]

Is it logical? Looking at the guidelines as laid out, the bit he is sighting clearly had to do with domestic abuse. His child was in no real danger, and the entire reason they clearly went up there was to be in a place they wanted to be, to be comfortable, while they were sick.

More importantly while those others things are issues, though i find attending a funeral far more understandable then going up to the country and walking about the woods, they knew they were sick when they did this. They knew it. They knew they were contagious.

IMHO, there is enough leeway in what was in the guidelines and what was said in one of the briefings before he went up there that his trip up would be deemed applicable. the journey home seems to be covered by him getting specific permission to do so.... The trip to the Castle cannot be excused in any form and that should be what does him in. IIRC, the only time he was seen walking in the woods, he was on private land, not public.

Ali wasn't attending family funerals (he was at two in the same day) and Kinnock's trip was something that could easily have been done over the phone/Skype/Zoom/ETC...

It's right to call out Cummings for what he did wrong. I've not held back on that... but it's equally as wrong to ignore the fact that Labour MPs, who couldn't have known if they were contagious or not at the time due to how the virus acts, have broken the rules as well.

Ignoring their actions tells the public that if you're not important, then you can do whatever you want

 

[B]

I will give you guys this. "Put family in the car and take an hour drive to test my eyesight, which I am unsure of" is still a few steps above "inject yourself with disinifectant".

 

[Iceman]

Public anger swells ranks of Tory MPs turning on Dominic Cummings

 

[Iceman]

He made it even worse with his press conference.

Most voters 'think Cummings broke rules' - survey

 

[DarthSkywalker]

IMHO, there is enough leeway in what was in the guidelines and what was said in one of the briefings before he went up there that his trip up would be deemed applicable. the journey home seems to be covered by him getting specific permission to do so.... The trip to the Castle cannot be excused in any form and that should be what does him in. IIRC, the only time he was seen walking in the woods, he was on private land, not public.

Ali wasn't attending family funerals (he was at two in the same day) and Kinnock's trip was something that could easily have been done over the phone/Skype/Zoom/ETC...

It's right to call out Cummings for what he did wrong. I've not held back on that... but it's equally as wrong to ignore the fact that Labour MPs, who couldn't have known if they were contagious or not at the time due to how the virus acts, have broken the rules as well.

Ignoring their actions tells the public that if you're not important, then you can do whatever you want

The issue is his overall actions put into context exactly why he really went up there. To have a little vacation. You can call out everyone, that's more then fair. But what Cummings did was super overt.

 

[B]

Heard this story on the radio this afternoon on the way home & I think this MP words it perfectly in part of his resignation statement -

Douglas Ross resigns as Government minister over Dominic Cummings lockdown 'breach'



This portion in particular;

While the intentions might have been well in meaning, the reaction to this news shows that Mr. Cummings interpretation of the government advice was not shared by the vast majority of people that have done as the government have asked.

I have constituents who didn’t get to say goodbye to loved ones; families who could not mourn together; people who didn’t visit sick relatives because they followed the guidance of the Government. I cannot in good faith tell them they were all wrong and one senior adviser to the government was right.

 

[Iceman]

Heard this story on the radio this afternoon on the way home & I think this MP words it perfectly in part of his resignation statement -

Douglas Ross resigns as Government minister over Dominic Cummings lockdown 'breach'



This portion in particular;

Hopefully there is more outcry from other Tory MPs. The guy has got to go if they want to maintain credibility on any more rules they come up with regarding the virus.

 

[Iceman]

Raab: Taking the knee is 'from Game of Thrones'

One of those moments where it should be obvious to think twice before speaking.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Raab: Taking the knee is 'from Game of Thrones'

One of those moments where it should be obvious to think twice before speaking.

The most ridiculous thing I have read in the last 24 hours, and that is saying a hell of a lot.