Discussion: Voting Rights and Election Law

You'll never see either side agree to a "free option". Republicans won't side with that, and neither will Democrats. It'll just be a football that both sides will kick around but go nowhere.

Was voter fraud a problem in 2000, though? I thought the problem was with reading them, not the voters themselves?

 

What I was responding to was the comment that a few number of votes never decides an election.

 

And that's the problem. Denying hundreds or thousands of people their right to vote is going to be a bigger problem than not requiring ID. And as you said, one is too many.

Now we have Ohio restricting early voting... except for military personnel (who tend to vote Republican). Obama cries foul, and Romney tries to spin it as Obama wants to restrict military personnel from early voting. But, you know, it's all about preventing voter fraud.

 

I can understand the timing being a major problem for the ID....but giving military 3 more days to vote, IMO is fine.....they have special problems that they have to work around. Not having enough time for the average voter is not the problem, they can vote early, absentee and on the day of voting....apathy is their problem, not time.

 

Why cut out the last 3 days for everybody? If you want to cut 3 days why not cut the first 3 days.

Ohio many times has a problem of lines way to long. Beyond that why only have early voting end in many districts till 5PM, maybe instead of 8-5 make it like 11-8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101638117

Let's be 100% honest here the Republicans are trying to rig the system in the way it can favor them

Personally I think the worst law I seen to try rig the system was in Florida. They basically made it a fineable act if you registered somebody and handed in the sheet 48 hours after they signed it. That law basically makes it illegal to sign up anybody on a Friday unless you can get the papers in early before the office closes. Like Ohio they also cut out the last Sunday before the election(a time that many Black churches set up a go out to vote day)

 

In Texas you have to be registered to vote by October 9th....what's the big deal. Follow the directions and do what you need to do...

I don't understand why people can't do that, they've been doing it since Pre-K....

 

There are people that are old and poor that going out and signing up becomes both time consuming and costly. I believe the system has to find ways to make it easy for everybody to to register and vote, not make laws that seem to be going out of there way to disenfranchise certain groups of voters

You honestly can't be that blind to see that a majority of these laws are being enabled by the Republicans to rig the system slightly in their favor(look at that Ohio article I posted don't you think somethings wrong with the system that rural voters in Republican leaning districts get much better early voting times then urban voting centers that generally lean democrat? Look at who is voting on these, the Democrats for the most part voted better voting times in all districts, while the Republicans voted for it in districts when it suits them)

In general I believe the election should be moved to a Monday and made a national holiday so everybody has a chance to vote

 

Um, you can do that through the mail...in the State of Texas all you have to do is check that you don't have a valid ID. There is a list of things that you can use instead, all you have to do is send a copy of it with your registration.

If they can do absentee voting, they can do this....

Next think you know, you're going to be griping that dead people can't vote because they can't get up to go to the mailbox.

 

Wow talk about your strawman arguments. Instead of commenting on what I say(like the Ohio thing) you lump my statement up with something I never pushed for like they are somehow equal in my eyes.

 

No, that is simply my looking into the future and seeing your next argument. Because that is the only people left that can't vote because of some reason...

You are actually telling me that a person cannot figure out a way to get registered when you can do it through your DMV, online, through the mail....by a certain date? Really? Because that is what my post was about that you commented on.....

 

So you honestly believe that I think dead people should vote and that was my next argument? As I said what you did is the pure definition of a strawman argument.

From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man, known in the UK as an Aunt Sally is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position

On top of that you basically doubled down on your strawman argument with the comment I quoted.

I don't see how that comment answers my question of don't you honestly believe that these laws are being put in place to favor the Republicans. I gave a specific example in Ohio where Republican leaning districts seems to have better early voter hours then Democrat ones?

You also didn't answer my question about the amount of time and money it would cost old and poor people, compared to people who are better off. You basically gave a very general answer that didn't address any of the points I made, then threw in a comment that I never once or would stand for at the end to try belittle my point(as if somehow it's my goal to get dead people to vote, so all my other points are somehow equal and invalid as the dead person voting argument).

 

Nobody here supports how it is being implemented as we have said repeatedly. Asking for a Photo ID to be required is not the same thing as different election centers being open at different times. Both Republicans and Democrats support whatever system gives them the best chance of winning. For Republicans this means trying to disenfranchise demographics that are unfavorable to them and for Democrats this means making it possible for illegals to vote. I want to prevent both of those things.

 

I believe it's a fair argument to want both things, but I think if you want to clean the system as is you can't do it in 2 years. If somebody legitimately wants to clean the system they should come up with a 4 or 5 year plan to clean the system

I don't get the illegals part though, you honestly believe that if somebody is in this country illegally they would do something as stupid as vote and make themselves open to get caught. I do think the worst case of voter fraud would be signing up dead people(as Kelly pointed out and I do oppose despite their belief that is my ultimate goal) or multiple voting using others peoples registrations.

As I said earlier in the thread I think it would be great to do everything you can to clean up the system, but that being said at the same time the measures to clean up the system have to take potential issues into consideration that may arise with the new system and try minimalize them as much as possible. I think most of these voter ID laws fail due to the fact they ignore the potential issues that may arise due to the laws(and I would argue that they do on purpose)

 

I've already answered that question, several times throughout this thread....Republicans want them in place to keep those without ID's from voting whether they are eligible or not to help their numbers, and Democrats what them as is so that illegal immigrants can vote, and they can bus in the poor, homeless, drug addicts, whatever off the streets to vote without an ID, and register them on the spot to vote to help their numbers....the timing stinks on this yes, which has also already been said.....but that doesn't mean that it does not need to get done at some point....it is ridiculous that people do not have state issued IDs....so give them 4 years to get it, give them free opportunities to get it, but they need to GET ONE....then they can legally register to vote and vote to their hearts content.

But, honestly I don't think you want anything to be done that "might" decrease the numbers that you want voting whether they are registered or not.....I'm sorry, but that is how I read it.....hence my sarcasm....

 

Kelly you had asked for a source on the GOP admission of guilt oon Voter ID, so I thought I'd drop this here:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77811.html

 

Not surprised......

but this is the better source...

http://www.politicspa.com/turzai-voter-id-law-means-romney-can-win-pa/37153/

The other source looks like a Democrat is saying that's what Turzai said....the other actually quotes him.

Oh, and thanks.....

 

Illegals have already risked a ton just by coming here, I have no doubt they would risk voting illegally if it was in their own best interest.

As for the other comments, I can agree with that. I don't think it can get done adequately by November. I think it can by 2014, but it certainly should be able to be done right by 2016. Presuming there is the will to do it, which is a big if. Like I said both parties are notoriously corrupt and both parties have interest in not doing it properly.

 

Actually they don't and there is no proof of what you say being true. The real fact of the matter is that voter fraud is very rare.

 

I don't think it's as rare as the numbers say it is but that being said the amount of voter suppression/disenfranchisement will probably be hundreds if not low thousands to one illegal vote

 

I'm sorry, but being in the military doesn't make you a greater American. It doesn't matter why the average voter doesn't take advantage of any of those things. There are dozens of reason why they might not. All Americans should get equal treatment.

How can they get illegal immigrants to vote? Where is the evidence that Democrats are activily doing this? And a poor, homeless, or drug addicted American off the streets shouldn't be able to vote? If they are legal citizens, what is wrong with registering them on the spot?

Sure, the Democrats might only be doing this to boost their numbers, but the difference is Democrats are getting Americans to vote while the Republicans are trying to make it harder for them to do so.

 

Exactly, and I am asked to prove that I am a US citizen, everyone should....



As far as illegal immigrants, I'm not saying that the Dems are going out to find them and register them, but they are fighting any kind of purging of voter registration rolls....



If they have proof that they are citizens, as in ID.... sure.....register them on the spot....

 

It is not so easy as you think Kel, there are a lot of factors involved, for example " mailing in a request ID form and not getting it back until it is to late" etc...the only difference now is the GOP isn't hiding their intentions anymore...

 

It is clear when the date to have the forms in is....the date is clearly on the form they get in the mail, pick up from the DMV, post office, etc...

And I honestly, don't give a **** why the Democrats want this or that, or why the Republicans want this or that.....

You should have to prove, without a doubt, that you are a legal citizen, that you live where you say you live, and that you are who you say you are.....it is ridiculously stupid, to say that those things are not important information for you to have, be able to give before voting....it needs to be given AT SOME POINT....in order to register, or vote. If people cannot figure that out on their own...then naive ignorance has set in, and there is nothing to be done about that....

 

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Here is the former leader of the Florida Republican party talking about Voter ID laws

 

How pervasive has government distrust gotten?