DISCUSSION: Waxman-Markey (Cap and Trade) Bill

Malice

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OK...this is going to the floor tomorrow for vote...noone is covering it but fox now.

- Raise Electricity rates 90%
- Raise Gas Prices 58%
- Raise Natural Gas Prices 55%
- Raise AVG Family Energy Bill $1,241

That is just the cost to consumers.
The businesses will have to increase prices which will increase the prices of EVERYTHING...THIS IS FREAKING INSANE

WTF!?!?!
Who in his right mind would freaking sign this bill?
 
Its estimated this at its best might influence the temperature by 2 TENTHS of a degree at best...

This bill will KILL BUSINESS...KILL IT
 
Well the concept of cap and trade can do a lot of good environmentally over time, but it needs a lot of work. The grandfather clause is a big problem to start
 
Some reports from Bloomberg that have good things to say:

The budget estimate says the legislation, to cap greenhouse-gas emissions and create a system to trade pollution permits, would raise $846.6 billion while adding $821.2 billion to federal spending, $24.4 billion net gain.

The bill, which the House Energy and Commerce Committee approved May 21, would require utilities, refineries and manufacturers to cut emissions 17 percent by 2020
The problem is, numbers are often theoretical.
 
Well the concept of cap and trade can do a lot of good environmentally over time, but it needs a lot of work. The grandfather clause is a big problem to start

yeah I am sure...
Here are your carbon credits
 
yeah I am sure...
Here are your carbon credits

I understand that creating a market for essentially "nothing" is a risk, but if done right, it could work. Then again, the same could be said about Marxism
 
They made the Goracle one ManBearPig of a fortune.:oldrazz:
 
In all seriousness though, I think this is an incredibly bad idea. Using middle of the road estimates, this will cost me between $50-70K by the time I retire. I'm not willing for my government to make me pay that kind of cash to make a statistically negligible impact on a problem that cannot be proven beyond question linked to any activities in which I, or anyone else, participates (and some would say even to exist).
I have much more to say on this, but I haven't the time now. Maybe debate will stay lively and I can revisit after a while.
 
In all seriousness though, I think this is an incredibly bad idea. Using middle of the road estimates, this will cost me between $50-70K by the time I retire. I'm not willing for my government to make me pay that kind of cash to make a statistically negligible impact on a problem that cannot be proven beyond question linked to any activities in which I, or anyone else, participates (and some would say even to exist).
I have much more to say on this, but I haven't the time now. Maybe debate will stay lively and I can revisit after a while.

I agree...this is beyond stupid.
 
The Waxman-Markey Bill just SOUNDS like one of those phrases they bold in American history text books.

You know, one of those bills that are pointed out because of how epically terrible they were.

You know...like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act?
 
This is the climate change bill right?

Apparently, a 320 (something) provision was released last night at 3:30 and Newt and his team are working on reading the provision but I guess Nancy Pelosi is trying her hardest to push this climate change bill through.
 
Another Win for this Administration. Let's kill business more and let's ensure that we never bounce back from this Economic Decline. Let's create more dependence on Government.
 
The energy bill just passed the House by 12 votes and is on its way to the Senate.

I'm gonna be incredibly upset if this passes in the Senate.

House Democrats win key test vote on climate bill

WASHINGTON (AP) - House Democrats narrowly won an important test vote Friday on groundbreaking legislation to combat global warming and usher in a new era of cleaner energy. Republican opponents said it included the largest tax increase ever.
The vote was 217-205 to send the White House-backed legislation to the full House. Thirty Democrats defected, reflecting the deep divisions over the plan. Supporters and opponents agree it mean higher energy costs, but they disagree widely on the impact on consumers.

The legislation would impose limits, for the first time, on carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas pollution from power plants, factories and refineries. It would force a shift away from coal and other fossil fuels to renewable and more efficient forms of energy.

President Barack Obama has made the measure a top priority of his first year in office. The president, along with White House aides and House Democratic leaders scrambled for the votes to assure passage. Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has pledged to pass the bill passed before lawmakers leave on their July 4 vacation.

In the Senate, which has yet to act, a major struggle is expected.

The bill's fate in the House depended on the decisions of a few dozen fence-sitting Democrats, mainly conservatives and moderates from contested districts who feared the political ramifications of siding with the White House and their leadership on the measure.

"The bill contains provisions to protect consumers, keep costs low, help sensitive industries transition to a clean energy economy and promote domestic emission reduction efforts," the White House in a statement of support for the legislation.

Republicans saw it differently.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D992ETLG0&show_article=1
 
Would you like to expand on that?
 
Yes... that represents my disappointment & disgust of the American People apathy and uninformed attitude.

:facepalm
 
Yes... that represents my disappointment & disgust of the American People apathy and uninformed attitude.

:facepalm

As far as them not caring if the bill passes? Or the fact that some are trying very hard to make sure it doesn't pass?
 
This is ******ed! I shouldn't have to pay all that and watch the economy crumble for a hoax!
 
And people wonder why stuff gets outsourced to China, and to think that Obama promised that he wasn't going to raise taxes on the middle and lower classes :o

Seriously, I'm honestly done with this administration.
 
So, if I understand this correctly, the cap is what companies can produce for carbon dioxide emissions and they pay fines if they go over that.

Companies can then charge customers more to offset those fines. Customers will ultimately use less energy because of the cost. This will likely make the price of goods go up..

But will it? Maybe prices will go down in order to sell more product.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about this except something tells me it would be better to put energy saving industries in place first before and giving them tax breaks before doing something like this.
 
Why build a new more expensive plant that is green...when I can pick up my old plant, and move it south of the border...or across the sea to malaysia or china?

This is why everything is being outsourced, companies tend to look from a price aspect, not a moral aspect...

We need to work this issues from the price and cost...that will affect the decisions.
 
Another bill passed with no one reading it.

What would our Founders think?
 
I haven't heard yet, but I doubt it will pass in the senate.
 
I wonder, are they going to monitor the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere after this, and when if it does drop, but temperatures don't, will they admit they were wrong or will they begin crying "We didn't do enough!" and lower the 'legal' amount of CO2 further?

I guess when Obama said change he meant how much money he'd let us have after he was through.
 
Here are the names of the Republicans that voted for the Cap and Trade:


Bono Mack, Mary (CA-45) 202-225-5330
Castle, Mike (DE) 202-225-4165
Kirk, Mark (IL-10) 202-225-4835
Lance, Leonard (NJ-7) 202-225-5361
LoBiondo, Frank (NJ-2) 202-225-6572
McHugh, John (NY-23) 202-225-4611
Reichert, Dave (WA-8) 202-225-7761
Smith, Chris (NJ-4) 202-225-3765

Any respectable Republican leader should go out of their way to make their lives miserable, compelling them to leave the party.
 

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