World Do casual fans/average joes care about THIS aspect of X-men?

Darthkush

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What aspect you might ask? The aspect of prejudice and relations between different minorities and outsiders.

I've noticed whenver I talk about X-men with casual(non comic) type fans, the only thing they seem to like about X-men is the super-powered battles and fight scenes and the various members of the x-men. None of them seem to give a dam.n about What the x-men stand for and why it creates such drama in their lives.

By the same token, people who don't like X-men because they do think it's just superpowered silly nonsense, don't listen to me when I try to tell them otherwise about it and talk about the different social issues that define the x-men's world.

Has anyone else noticed this? There seem to be a lot of people who only like X-men for the claws and optic blasts and such.
 
A lot of people who like Spiderman don't care about his superhero themes either. /shrug
 
I think it's the spectacle of comic movies that draw people in and the themes that make them fans :)
 
People can't look past the aspect of the superheroics since that is pretty much 80% or so of the X-Men stories. Sure, the undercurrent of prejudice and racism is still there, but it's no where near as prevalent as it used to be. In the 90's it became all about the superheroes, and it's pretty much stayed that way.
 
Harlekin said:
People can't look past the aspect of the superheroics since that is pretty much 80% or so of the X-Men stories. Sure, the undercurrent of prejudice and racism is still there, but it's no where near as prevalent as it used to be. In the 90's it became all about the superheroes, and it's pretty much stayed that way.

well, theres only so many times u can put the mutants-being-persecuted thing front and center.
 
Darthkush said:
What aspect you might ask? The aspect of prejudice and relations between different minorities and outsiders.

I've noticed whenver I talk about X-men with casual(non comic) type fans, the only thing they seem to like about X-men is the super-powered battles and fight scenes and the various members of the x-men. None of them seem to give a dam.n about What the x-men stand for and why it creates such drama in their lives.

By the same token, people who don't like X-men because they do think it's just superpowered silly nonsense, don't listen to me when I try to tell them otherwise about it and talk about the different social issues that define the x-men's world.

Has anyone else noticed this? There seem to be a lot of people who only like X-men for the claws and optic blasts and such.

To be honest,those are the only X-Men stories I'm interested in.Their adventures in space and all that don't interest me at all.The stories where it seems they're at odds with the intolerant world and can never really "win" are the stories I love.Xavier and Magneto's clash of ideals with everyone caught in the middle is what I love.
 
I think it's fair to say that only those with a lot of familiarity with the characters are in a position to look at the more subtle aspects of the characters and their relationships.

It's a bit like wine drinking, only those that have done it for a while differentiate between rose red and a Cabernet.
 
The average joe just wants a quick action fix that looks pretty and doesn't require too much thought.
 
Mos people don't think about this at all. Most of them have aglimpse, say it's "childish" and "stupid" and leave. I mena they have superpowers, which means they lack substance. :down

People should stop judging books by their covers. The X-men have always been based in reality. Even the "Civil War" event is.

 
Iceman/Psylocke said:
The average joe just wants a quick action fix that looks pretty and doesn't require too much thought.
And most of the stories involving the X-Men are written exactly like that. On one side you can blame the fans, on the other side, you can blame the writers.
 
Harlekin said:
And most of the stories involving the X-Men are written exactly like that. On one side you can blame the fans, on the other side, you can blame the writers.

True. Unfortunately, I don't think the X-Men would be popular if the stories concentrated on the social issues but none of them had visually pleasing powers and they were all as ugly as the morlocks.
 
Iceman/Psylocke said:
True. Unfortunately, I don't think the X-Men would be popular if the stories concentrated on the social issues but none of them had visually pleasing powers and they were all as ugly as the morlocks.
Heck, I wouldn't even want that. The reason I first started reading the X-Men was because they looked cool and they were superheroes. Social issues should not be a constant, but something from time to time. Even during the Claremont years there were some straight-up superhero fare stories, or stories dealing with other themes.
 
Darthkush said:
What aspect you might ask? The aspect of prejudice and relations between different minorities and outsiders.

I've noticed whenver I talk about X-men with casual(non comic) type fans, the only thing they seem to like about X-men is the super-powered battles and fight scenes and the various members of the x-men. None of them seem to give a dam.n about What the x-men stand for and why it creates such drama in their lives.

By the same token, people who don't like X-men because they do think it's just superpowered silly nonsense, don't listen to me when I try to tell them otherwise about it and talk about the different social issues that define the x-men's world.

Has anyone else noticed this? There seem to be a lot of people who only like X-men for the claws and optic blasts and such.

Well, to be honest... this will go on forever. When I was a kid, all I cared about was how cool Wolverine was, how he did things his own way, smoked, hit on a girl who was taken, and spewed one liners before chugging beer. I was so into Gambit's edginess and coolness, and how powerful Colossus was. That's when I was a kid.

Now, grown up, I think the Wolverine stuff is sort of silly and immature at times (but not all the time). I pay way more attention to the adult themes of racism, responsibility, and the issue of how far somebody SHOULD be allowed to go to change the world and whether or not beign superpowered gives them the right to mold it the way they think it should be. I'm a huge Cyclops fan because in real life, we may think somebody is a dick or a prick (or both) but there is usually a REASON the person comes off that way. His story is he was a boy who failed to protect his younger brother when it was his responsibility to do so... so as a grown man he is completely anal and overprotective of his team. That's just one example of excellent storytelling and the awesome themes that helped me to stay a fan as I matured and got older.

Still, there will always be casual fans who could care less about the awesome storytelling and they just want their one liners and explosions. They'll see the characters as two dimensional and be perfectly fine with it. They'll get the bang for their buck and not have a single complaint. Some of them are young people in that stage of life, some are older people who don't hold stories in high regard and just want a good time. It hurts a comic, movie, or story of any kind to dumb it down for the wider audience. It also hurts the amount of audience it will have to focus something purely on great storytelling. I think X-Men fans are more or less split between those two things and always will be. It's not because of the actual X-Men stories... it's because that's just the way people are.
 
Harlekin said:
Heck, I wouldn't even want that. The reason I first started reading the X-Men was because they looked cool and they were superheroes. Social issues should not be a constant, but something from time to time. Even during the Claremont years there were some straight-up superhero fare stories, or stories dealing with other themes.

I agree.

The social issues made for a number of great stories and they certainly make the X-Men stand out from a lot of other superheroes. However, some people seem to think that this is what the X-Men are all about and dislike when newer fans enthuse about cool powers etc.

I feel that the X-Men are superpowered heroes first and the reader will only discover these issues once they begin to delve deeper into the X-Men universe. If someone is looking for social issues and superpowers are not important to them, there are many other sources like Schindlers list that should probably be looked at first.
 
Why don't y'all poll some people?
I know some supposed "true comic fans" who would argue that the racism metaphor's been overdone.
 
Chris Wallace said:
Why don't y'all poll some people?
I know some supposed "true comic fans" who would argue that the racism metaphor's been overdone.

I don't know if it's been overdone but I just don't really agree when people say that it is what the X-Men are all about especially when younger fans aren't allowed to like them for their superpowers and 'coolness'.

The political and social issues represent an important dimension of the X-Men but being a victim shouldn't be the only thing that defines who you are. If it does it helps reinforce the division and sterotype.
 
Sadly the average 'fan' of the X-men is most likely only interested in Wolverine and his claws...:(
 
PWN3R RANGER said:
Sadly the average 'fan' of the X-men is most likely only interested in Wolverine and his claws...:(

Sadly you are 100% correct.
 
With all comics, I think Lex Luthor's quote from Superman (1978) somes it up best: "Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."
 
Ming said:
With all comics, I think Lex Luthor's quote from Superman (1978) somes it up best: "Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."

Very true for the GREAT comics... you're typical weekly adventures don't offer as much usually. Usually those just consist of a superhero underdog trying to take down a slightly stronger opponent. Not much writing "between the lines" in most of those.

I don't think that quote quite applies to the X-Men movies either. Pretty much what you see is what you get, nothing goes TOO deep or the audience would get bored or confused.
 
Iceman/Psylocke said:
I don't know if it's been overdone but I just don't really agree when people say that it is what the X-Men are all about especially when younger fans aren't allowed to like them for their superpowers and 'coolness'.

The political and social issues represent an important dimension of the X-Men but being a victim shouldn't be the only thing that defines who you are. If it does it helps reinforce the division and sterotype.

Well said! I can assure you that, as a more casual fan, I was definitely not drawn to X-men for the sake of action and explosions -- those things tend to bore me. I tend to be very character-driven in my taste for stories, and I really think it's the great characters that drew me into X-men.

I can also say it's very hard to miss the social issues of X-men -- they are pedalled pretty hard by the franchise. I have mixed feelings about this. I appreciate the depth that real issues bring to any story, but I find myself wondering about the re-interpretation of these issues in our day. Is it congruent with what the original authors had in mind? Are the people we tend to hold up as "victims" truly victims? I'm not so sure about all that.

And I also disagree that the theme of alienation is the most important theme. As for themes, superhero stories tend to follow the lines of all archetypal hero stories -- it's all about courage and love and honor and self-sacrifice. It's about doing the right thing when it's incredibly difficult. Without these virtues, I suspect almost any superhero story would fail, no matter what issues it might try to promote.
 
Joe cares about making money and there is nothing wrong with that, if it happend to be superhero action right know let it be, when that stops working he will try something else:)
 
The average joe just wants a quick action fix that looks pretty and doesn't require too much thought.[quote/]

not sure i agreewith you-i'd probably be called a casual fan but i do love the xmen for a number of reasons not only my own relation to my favourite characters!i enjoy the artwork imensely as well as the underlying aspect of the outkast-i go to the movies because i feel i can relate to them-i don't fit in anywhere an seeing someone who is so much of an outsider they are blue or can't touch someone etc being powerful an loved makes me feel proud to be myself!
 

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