The Dark Knight Rises Do you believe Batman Quit?

[AnneFan]

I would've preferred Bruce remaining in Gotham (Alfred did say they need Bruce Wayne, not Batman) recouping his money and serving Gotham that way. The death faking thing wasn't necessary.

 

[georgec]

Bruce recognized there wasn't much more he could personally do as Batman to help Gotham. He made a good decision to avoid sending himself to an early grave. And when Fox proves fraud on the trades, he'll hopefully sustain the Wayne legacy through the orphanage and other philanthropic causes.

 

[8wid]

Whatever fortune he had left went to Alfred and his got rid of his parent's house. Why would he ever go back to Gotham? My expectation for the end of the film was he was going to build bigger infrastructure than his parents did like parks, museums, libraries, etc. for the blighted areas of the city and then get the wealthy of Gotham to follow suit, but they didn't.

 

[TheScarecrow]

^ Well he had no money left.

 

[DerTommissar]

So he quit being Bruce and Batman.

Well, if it felt like a "quit" to you more than "rebirth", so be it.

The two times I have seen it, the audience applauded when Bruce and Selina were spotted by Alfred at the cafe. I point out that scene because it so powerfully expresses the controlling idea of the film.

So it is safe to say, for at least some of us, that this moment is more of an exhilaration than a "meh". More a renewal than a drop out.

But to each their own!

 

[DerTommissar]

I would've preferred Bruce remaining in Gotham (Alfred did say they need Bruce Wayne, not Batman) recouping his money and serving Gotham that way. The death faking thing wasn't necessary.

I can understand your thinking, AnneFan.

My only concern is that Bruce has been exposed by Bane. If Bruce Wayne is alive, or even believed to be alive, it now poses a great threat to those close to him.

That was why Bruce's choice made perfect sense to me.

 

[#1nolanfan]

[YT][/YT]

The movie implied he did so....yeaaaaahh. He kinda did.

Uh no he didn't you just seem to miss the point of this fantastic movie.

 

[hafizbat]

The Batman didn't quit. He just accomplished his mission.

 

[#1nolanfan]

I would've preferred Bruce remaining in Gotham (Alfred did say they need Bruce Wayne, not Batman) recouping his money and serving Gotham that way. The death faking thing wasn't necessary.

He also said Gotham has bought him nothing but painful memories and is doing him no justice by staying and it's implied in the end he listen to Alfred's wishes. To me it seemed like throughout the whole trilogy Bruce never truly cared much about money like Selina originally thought, and he was never the person he truly was. Gotham pretty much treated him and Batman like ****, so he needed a new life and a normal one hence why they always bought up the clean state. I think the death faking thing was very necessary for Bruce, it needed to be done for him to live the peaceful and normal life he's never had. And I thought you wanted him and Selina to become a couple? How was that gonna happen if he had stayed living there and clearly wanted to get away from Gotham?

And the sad thing is no one in Gotham will miss him expect for the people that know his identity (Alfred, Lucius, Gordon, Blake, Selina) and the true person he is.

 

[Shpati]

Afternoon guys, so I have this one friend who absolutely hates this movie because to him batman should never quit.

Am I wrong to believe he doesn't? Sure he doesn't suit up at the end up but he put everything in place for Batman to return (signal restored, coordinates to the cave). And while yes it is obvious that Blake is now set up to become Batman, I don't get why its hard to believe that Bruce along with Selina would take on the Batman Beyond mentor role from a distance...

He did not quit. Bruce Wayne has finally reached his limit.

He cleaned up Gotham. He helped Gotham against the mob, he captured the Joker, and he protected the city by defeating the League of Shadows.

Now, Gotham is a safer place. Even though Bruce Wayne left Gotham, he still left it with a "Symbol" (Robin John Blake) to secure the nights. John Blake can still fight injustice, even though he quit the police force, and Bruce Wayne can finally live the life he deserves. Robin John Blake helped Bruce Wayne, and Bruce Wayne helped Robin John Blake. Gotham can move on without Bruce Wayne, while still having Robin John Blake (the Symbol) and Commissioner Gordon to keep the city intact.

 

[georgec]

The Batman didn't quit. He just accomplished his mission.

I like your thinking.

 

[AnneFan]

Nobody in Gotham (sans Alfred, Gordon, Lucius, Blake, Selina) or the world knows Bruce Wayne is Batman. If he wanted to leave Gotham he didn't need to use the clean slate and my mind won't change on that. Using it doesn't give him any more of a new life. Nobody really cared that he died, except for the people that knew him closely, so why would they care that he left alive? They would've said Bruce is going to Italy, oh okay.

Bruce's new life wouldn't be secret for too long with him out in full view. You can't erase visual recognition. His lie (8 years after lying about Dent) would be exposed eventually and people would wonder why he made that choice. Something he wouldn't have to do if he didn't go through with the faking. It's like Nolan wanted people to think Bruce had really died, only to show, oh wait a second, he didn't.

It's a script. A script can be rewritten to suit any idea. They chose to go another direction. There could have been a move away from masked vigilantes (no Blake for example) and a move to Bruce serving another role, a hero without a mask. Narratively, as I said before, Alfred mentions Gotham needing Bruce Wayne, his resources and knowledge. I would've liked that angle because it leaves Bruce on much better standing publicly. Selina wanted to leave, but the plot also tells us she had the chance to do so, but didn't. Bruce gave her a reason to stay.

 

[DerTommissar]

Nobody in Gotham or the world knows Bruce Wayne is Batman. If he wanted to leave Gotham he didn't need to use the clean slate and my mind won't change on that. Using it doesn't give him any more of a new life. Nobody really cared that he died, except for the people that knew him closely, so why would they care that he left alive? They would've said Bruce is going to Italy, oh okay. Bruce's new life wouldn't be secret for too long with him out in full view. You can't erase visual recognition. His lie (8 years after lying about Dent) would be exposed eventually and people would wonder why he made that choice. Something he wouldn't have to do if he didn't go through with the faking. It's like Nolan wanted people to think Bruce had really died, only to show, oh wait a second, he didn't.

I am not trying to start a battle with you AnneFan. Just thinking things through on the keyboard. Cool?

Consider this: Probably all of Bane's men know Bruce is Batman. At the very least, they definitely know by the time Bat and Bane fight in the sewer...I am sure they all heard their boss refer to Batman as "Mr. Wayne" just like Selina did.

By Act 3 we can assume many of the freed prisoners working closely with Bane and his army have picked up the info as well. Unfortunately, all the wrong people will be the first to find out Bruce is Batman. They are defeated and apprehended, but not killed, at the end of the film. Is that not a major concern if you are Bruce?

If I were Bruce, I would be very concerned for the people close to me after the events of this film.

Watch the movie again...when he gets back from the Pit, Bruce clings to the shadows and steps from them to speak with Selina. Moments later with Fox and Co. his identity is hidden with a hood over his head. He's laying low partly because his cover is blown, (at least with some of the villainy in Gotham).

At the end, everyone saw the Bat blow-up over the Ocean...it's the perfect moment for him to vanish and never be spotted again.

OK, will there be an occasional Elvis-like Bruce Wayne spotting from time to time? Sure. But do Bruce and Selina know how to easily disguise themselves or lay low? Absolutely. They are built for this stuff. Their old skills make their new life very do-able.

Anyway, not trying to upset anyone. And I know I cannot change your mind, AnneFan. Not trying to. Just sharing my point of view.

Keep the debate going. No biggie if I am proven wrong. I am flexible enough to change my mind if I see a clearer explanation. The truth is a wonderful thing. But so far I still think my breakdown a page ago is about right.

I wish Nolan would come in here and set me straight if I am actually a moron and misunderstanding his story.

 

[AnneFan]

I am not trying to start a battle with you AnneFan. Just thinking things through on the keyboard. Cool?

Oh, no worries. I don't engage in battles but rather exchange ideas/opinions.

Bruce being 'dead' doesn't really alter anything in terms of Batman's identity, though. These people can still shout out Bruce Wayne was Batman all they want.

Bruce isn't laying low when we see him. He's in full view. Him being in full view wouldn't have been an issue if he didn't fake his death.

 

[Revenger]

I thought BB and TDK were perfectly aligned with the comics, but this "anyone can be Batman" notion and Bruce 'retiring' was complete Elseworlds to me.

It was very disappointing to see Bruce and Batman quit. I wanted the end to be Bruce's Batman finally finding his place as the accepted protector of Gotham and accepted by the public and the GCP. Leaving the door open for future adventures.

 

[AnneFan]

Just thinking aloud here, they could have pardoned Selina (with a big word from Bruce to make it happen) for helping out with the final battle, thus her remaining in Gotham with Bruce not being an issue. Maybe have Bruce telling her to confront her past, not to run from it. Laying low and hiding around (though they're not doing that when we see them) isn't my definition of peaceful retirement. Hell, Bruce revealing his identity (letting the truth have its day, as Alfred says) could've been good.

 

[BlackFox]

Batman will be back that is for certain.

 

[DerTommissar]

Oh, no worries. I don't engage in battles but rather exchange ideas/opinions.

Bruce being 'dead' doesn't really alter anything in terms of Batman's identity, though. These people can still shout out Bruce Wayne was Batman all they want.

If Bruce is visibly alive, or anyone believes he is alive, someone close to Bruce might get hurt now that his secret identity is compromised. After the events of TDKR, it's safer for those Bruce cares for if the world thinks he is dead. That's my read anyway.

Bruce isn't laying low when we see him. He's in full view. Him being in full view wouldn't have been an issue if he didn't fake his death.

I was OK with that scene in the context of my argument.

Here is an example why: One day I was doing my job and someone was being shown around the office, pretty girl named Amy. I shook her hand, smiled, and returned to my work. Ten minutes later I realized it was actress Amy Adams. I felt so dumb.

Anyway, from my view of the world, people are not always immediately recognized even though we see them on TV or in a magazine or on TMZ or whatever.

I think Bruce can pull off being in full view in Florence without being recognized.

Again, just my take on it.




Anyway, agree to disagree?

 

[#1nolanfan]

I am not trying to start a battle with you AnneFan. Just thinking things through on the keyboard. Cool?

Consider this: Probably all of Bane's men know Bruce is Batman. At the very least, they definitely know by the time Bat and Bane fight in the sewer...I am sure they all heard their boss refer to Batman as "Mr. Wayne" just like Selina did.

By Act 3 we can assume many of the freed prisoners working closely with Bane and his army have picked up the info as well. Unfortunately, all the wrong people will be the first to find out Bruce is Batman. They are defeated and apprehended, but not killed, at the end of the film. Is that not a major concern if you are Bruce?

If I were Bruce, I would be very concerned for the people close to me after the events of this film.

Watch the movie again...when he gets back from the Pit, Bruce clings to the shadows and steps from them to speak with Selina. Moments later with Fox and Co. his identity is hidden with a hood over his head. He's laying low partly because his cover is blown, (at least with some of the villainy in Gotham).

At the end, everyone saw the Bat blow-up over the Ocean...it's the perfect moment for him to vanish and never be spotted again.

OK, will there be an occasional Elvis-like Bruce Wayne spotting from time to time? Sure. But do Bruce and Selina know how to easily disguise themselves or lay low? Absolutely. They are built for this stuff. Their old skills make their new life very do-able.

Anyway, not trying to upset anyone. And I know I cannot change your mind, AnneFan. Not trying to. Just sharing my point of view.

Keep the debate going. No biggie if I am proven wrong. I am flexible enough to change my mind if I see a clearer explanation. The truth is a wonderful thing. But so far I still think my breakdown a page ago is about right.

I wish Nolan would come in here and set me straight if I am actually a moron and misunderstanding his story.

I completely agree with you on everything! Yes Bruce is pretty famous, but do you really think there would be really anybody outside the U.S. that know him personally? I sure don't and they wouldn't have anything to prove he's Bruce Wayne with the clean state.

 

[BlackFox]

I saw it as Nolan retiring from Batman not Bruce.

 

[kthevs]

If Bruce is visibly alive, or anyone believes he is alive, someone close to Bruce might get hurt now that his secret identity is compromised. After the events of TDKR, it's safer for those Bruce cares for if the world thinks he is dead. That's my read anyway.



I was OK with that scene in the context of my argument.

Here is an example why: One day I was doing my job and someone was being shown around the office, pretty girl named Amy. I shook her hand, smiled, and returned to my work. Ten minutes later I realized it was actress Amy Adams. I felt so dumb.

Anyway, from my view of the world, people are not always immediately recognized even though we see them on TV or in a magazine or on TMZ or whatever.

I think Bruce can pull off being in full view in Florence without being recognized.

Again, just my take on it.




Anyway, agree to disagree?

You met Amy Adams? Where?

 

[AnneFan]

Yes Bruce is pretty famous, but do you really think there would be really anybody outside the U.S. that know him personally? I sure don't and they wouldn't have anything to prove he's Bruce Wayne with the clean state.

Do you know George Clooney, or some other big US film star who is on TV and magazines personally? No, you don't. But you know their face and who they are. Italy isn't just for Italians either. There is a thing called international travel. As I've said, I think it would come out globally that Bruce Wayne is alive and lied about his death at some point. I can't see it lasting like that forever. Oh, that's not Bruce Wayne, just someone who looks and sounds exactly like him.

 

[kthevs]

Do you know George Clooney, or some other big US film star who is on TV and magazines personally? No, you don't. But you know their face and who they are. Italy isn't just for Italians either. There is a thing called international travel. As I've said, I think it would come out globally that Bruce Wayne is alive and lied about his death at some point. I can't see it lasting like that forever. Oh, that's not Bruce Wayne, just someone who looks and sounds exactly like him.

Bruce isn't nearly as famous as movie stars, and there's no guarantee he and Selina will stay in Italy. They could just be there for a vacation and to show Alfred that Bruce is still alive. Within the context of movie logic, he has disappeared forever.

 

[The_Raganork]

Am I wrong to believe he doesn't?

Yes

 

[BlackFox]

Do you know George Clooney, or some other big US film star who is on TV and magazines personally? No, you don't. But you know their face and who they are. Italy isn't just for Italians either. There is a thing called international travel. As I've said, I think it would come out globally that Bruce Wayne is alive and lied about his death at some point. I can't see it lasting like that forever. Oh, that's not Bruce Wayne, just someone who looks and sounds exactly like him.

Yeah but Bruce Wayne is not a film star he's just a very rich business man, how many of them do you know the face of?

Yes it may come out eventually but not as quick as if he was a George Clooney type type of fame, outside of Gotham he probably woudn't be that well known.