Do you see TDKR's reputation growing in future years?

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Bruce Malone, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. milost Registered

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    Full agreement, obviously.


    If I wanted to give character examples of why Hardy is a great actor, Bane would NOT be one of them. Like I mentioned before (and I see you have now too), he was totally channeling his Star Treck nemesis character with Bane. That almost cliched, over the top villain. It's most definitely hammy, and while I can't say for certain, I'd say it was intentional on Hardy's part. "Phoned in" is too extreme, but I would say he simply had some carefree fun with the performance and didn't take it too seriously. Which isn't a bad thing in my opinion. Just call a spade a spade though. If I switch gears and get into a certain mind set, I can definitely get humor, fun and "lolz" out of the performance. As soon as someone tries to get me to take Bane seriously and don't admit the character in the movie is this, hammy, exaggerated mustache twirler, then I tend to get extremely cynical.
     
    #401 milost, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  2. Green Goblin Royal Flush Spidey

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    Can someone please explain Occupy Gotham/what the hell Bane's revolution was?

    I just didn't have the intellect to understand on my last viewing (last year).
     
  3. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    Agreed. I'd tell them to watch Bronson first, along with Warrior, The Take, and Stuart: A Life Backwards.

    And maybe Lawless, not because I think Hardy really does anything spectacular there, but for the range it shows to be so scenery-devouring in Bronson and so minimalist and low-key in Lawless.

    I wouldn't say Hardy "phoned it in" either--he gained thirty pounds and apparently was pretty hardcore in fight rehearsals, and he definitely seemed to have ideas about where he was going with it in interviews, I just think he's an eccentric character actor who does weird things with his characters sometimes, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't work out. I think the Bane voice he came up with, even without the added distortion effects, was way over-the-top.

    I'd agree that the Blackgate speech in particular is so hammy that there's no way he wasn't hamming it up to high heaven on purpose.
     
  4. DACrowe Registered

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    I actually agree with this criticism. ( :eek: ) Probably because it was written with some actual thought and substance as opposed to fanboy whining (or delusion in some posters' case).

    I don't think this is in Hardy's five best performances. And while Ledger went for a crazy voice for the Joker, I think Hardy did overdo it in the Blackgate scene.

    I get that it was intentionally supposed to be a showy, "political" speech (at least a speech that was purporting an image) and he would go for something big with theatricality. But I think it was way too thick there. I would also add that he does it to a lesser extent in the football scene, but it works well there for the most part.

    That is not to say it is not a good performance. In fact, it is kind of great in that I don't "see" Tom Hardy at all in the character, and I realize most actors could not get past that mask with as much as ease as Hardy seemingly does. It is just that I agree Hardy lays it on a little thick at times with vocal inflections. Even in Warrior, I thought his case of the mumbles were a little too intentionally distorting of the dialogue.
     
    #404 DACrowe, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  5. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    He explains it to Bruce in the prison pit, though that's also where IMO he's the most unintelligible.

    Basically, he's just toying with Gotham and dragging out its death for the fun of it (and the satisfaction of making Bruce lay there and watch helplessly to compound his failure).

    "I learned that there can be no true despair without hope. So as I terrorize Gotham, I will feed its people hope to poison their souls. I will let them believe that they can survive, so that you can watch them clambering over each other to stay in the sun. You can watch me torture an entire city. And then when it is finished and Gotham is ashes....then you have my permission to die."
     
  6. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    He's even more mumbly in Lawless.

    I kind of think Hardy just has some kind of thing for doing weird voices.

    Also, he's practically in love with Gary Oldman, who's well-known for those sorts of things, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hardy tries to emulate him in some ways, including occasionally chomping up scenery like a rabid dog.
     
  7. milost Registered

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    Has nothing to do with intelligence, you're fine. It isn't your fault that the plan is so convoluted.


    Basically, Bane is pretending to cause this revolt/take over in Gotham for the people. He makes the claim that he's doing all this for the betterment of the city and that the bomb is in their hands (that ordinary citizen crap). He tells them not to be alarmed and that he believes in true justice. He's a "liberator", not an oppressor. He basically wants Gotham to think they're in control and give them a false hope before he levels them completely. That hope comes in the form of food, medical aid, and "comforting" the police force. It doesn't make much difference though considering everyone is cowering in their homes, or on the flip side, partaking in sackings and kangaroo courts. I guess the false hope is that they'll all live in the end or something like that. :funny:
     
    #407 milost, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  8. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    Yea Bane and Talia's plan is kind of flimsy (we're gonna mount an epic supervillain takeover of an enormous city....and then sit there and hang out for five months until everyone goes boom....while twirling our mustaches and laughing evilly picturing Bruce laying helplessly watching on the other side of the globe?).

    It kind of feels like a plot device to conveniently give Bruce time to recover.
     
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  9. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    Not gonna lie, this discussion has made me rewatch the Blackgate speech for pure entertainment purposes, and my comment about Hardy looking like a cheesy game show host kind of makes me want to see him now in Richard Dawson's role in a remake of The Running Man. Preferably starring Christian Bale.
     
  10. milost Registered

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    Yeah, it's definitely there to give Bruce time to recover which makes their scheme even worse. Feeding Bruce to keep him alive is one thing, but letting the doctor fix him? That's something else. Imagine how horrific it would be to be completely immobilized . . . while you watch these horrible acts that you could HAVE prevented. Sure, have your life fearing prisoners give him nourishment and that whole tv business, but don't let him fix his back! (Even if it's just punching him :funny:)

    That's actually a great and sadistic plan on paper. The actual movie deals with it for a scene, two scenes tops. Bane and Talia end up giving him (and the city), every possible attempt to thwart them, until they actually do. Their whole motivation and scheme just falls apart and looks like complete nonsense. Why would Talia sleep with Bruce? To give him another false hope, sure, but once Bruce is conceivably trapped in the prison, why wouldn't you let him in on the secret? Imagine how defeated he would be, lying there paralyzed, thinking about things like Miranda Tate's betrayal, the fall of his company, the fall of the city, etc. He'd be too depressed to do anything about it and Bane and Talia would achieve everything they wanted!

    It just makes no sense, none of it. It would have been more compelling if they dropped the "suicide bomber" angle and maybe even Talia and drove towards an actual revolution/revolt of sorts. I mean, they were clearly thinking about it, why not just go all the way? It's not like the studio was hounding them saying "you must have this cliched Nuclear bomb for a big action scene", like people surmise they had to do in Batman Begins' third act.



    Bale took the leading role from Arnold in Terminator Salvation. I could see him in the role of Ben Richards. Imagine how cool the Stalkers would be with better costumes and modern SFX.
     
  11. DACrowe Registered

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    Yes, like most comic villains, the plans don't really hold water under scrutiny (though Joker's was refreshingly not about destroying the city or killing the hero).

    But I would add the one wrinkle that it is not just about torturing Bruce. It is about making some kind of twisted point to the world about how ****ed up Gotham City and its inhabitants are. That the superior Americans are just as rabid and self-destructive as the rest of civilization.

    PAVEL: If you don't charge it, [it will explode.]"
    BANE: And for your children's sake, I sincerely hope that it does.

    Flawed and vague? Yes, but no moreso than Bane wanting to do the exact same thing (much more quickly) through fear toxin. Or flying planes into buildings when you think about it.

    I think it is the five-month window that is the absurd part. It gives Batman just enough time to save the day.
     
  12. BatLobster Trailer Timewarper

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    I think the point of Talia sleeping with Bruce, in retrospect, is clearly about "softening" him up for Bane. On top of that, she used the opportunity to try and seduce him right onto her plane, which would've allowed them to skip a step in their plan. Talia using sex against Bruce is one of the hallmarks of the character though.

    I think the point of letting him rot was so he'd have to wallow in his own failures on a deeper level, not for them to be like "na na na boo boo we twicked you!". Him knowing Talia's identity was never an essential part of the plan.
     
  13. BatmanBeyond Shadow On The Run

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    Did not know this. Thanks, guys. :up:
     
  14. Green Goblin Royal Flush Spidey

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    Right, I had sort of got it. I was just confused how some in Gotham felt greedy Capitalists were destroying Gotham considering that the city was thriving for 8 years and the "liberator" was some potato head who was threatening them with a nuclear bomb!
     
  15. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    They just felt...in their bones.
     
  16. milost Registered

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    . . . in their bones and stuff.
     
  17. Travesty Registered

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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    Knightfall Bane is still the best interpretation of the character for me.

    He discovered Batman's identity himself by deduction. He escapes prison himself. He wanted to prove he was the better man and could take Gotham from Batman - TDKR Bane wanted to fulfil the work of a man who hated and excommunicated him. Essentially starting something from nothing as Gotham was experiencing a time of peace.

    The 'Gordon lied about Dent' thing was discovered by pure chance and became his reason to storm Blackgate. Was he going to do so anyway or was that just made up on the fly? A solid blueprint of a plan before touching down in Gotham would've been better. And of course, the letter he reads off is somehow deemed to be proof.
     
  19. Schlosser85 A Very Stable Genius

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    Yea, let's not believe our heroic police Commissioner who's help save us from everyone from Ra's Al Ghul to The Joker for over eight years, let's totally take the word of a letter he supposedly wrote that some terrorist leader waves in front of us the day after blowing up all our bridges and a football stadium, blowing the crap out of half the rest of Gotham, assassinating the Mayor, breaking a man's neck with his bare hands in front of everyone, and trapping our entire police force underground. Oh, and lugging a ginormous nuclear bomb out in broad daylight and threatening to blow us all up.

    Yep. Sounds legit. Surely this is a man we can trust. I feel it...in my bones.
     
  20. Cobblepot Giant-Size Man-Thing

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    I never understood why they didn't choose to follow Knightfall more closely. That would have been a 1000 times better than the mess we got with TDKR.

    -A weary Batman, hunting down a villian. Bane lurking in the shadows, watching his every move.
    -Bane blowing up Arkham and Blackgate, to tire Batman.
    -Bane Breaking Batman
    -Batman seeking out help from Sandra Kinsolving etc..etc..
    -Final fight him beating the crap out of Bane!

    No weird plotholes, no tie-ing up loose ends that aren' t there. Just a full force Batman movie that isn't an origin story and is not about the villain. But one that explores Buce's psyche and Batman's weaknesses
     
    #420 Cobblepot, Feb 15, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
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  21. DACrowe Registered

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    I know I have made this point before, but Knightfall, at least as originally written, is actually kind of boring and repetitive.

    Batman stops a villain, Bane watches and scratches his chin muttering, "Yes." Rinse and repeat 12 times.

    Even if you prefer comic Bane, as a story it is very redundant and not very imaginative. I think Rises and Arkham Origins took the concept and ran in a more creative direction with it. And I have said why many times.
     
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  22. shauner111 Registered

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    Knightfall has cool moments but it's overrated.
     
  23. JackWhite Third Man

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    We probably would have got more of that if you cut Blake/the successor angle completely out of the film.

    As for Bane's voice, yeah, Hardy does sound a little over the top during the blackgate speech. It almost has the same inflection that the re-dubbed prologue has. I wonder had no one complained would the voice sound the same as the original prologue dub throughout the film?
     
  24. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    :up:

    Plus we would have gotten a proper version of Bane.

    That's a more accurate description of TDKR.
     
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  25. DACrowe Registered

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    As opposed to the 12 issues of filler leading up to only five pages of actual story progress (Bane breaks Batman). Knightfall is a great concept, but was at least seven issues too long.
     
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