The Dark Knight Rises Do you see TDKR's reputation growing in future years?

[BatLobster]

I think the "genre switching" model between the three films is something that will be emulated. Not that this trilogy invented that, it's been done with other films (Harry Potter franchise being a big example) but I think this trilogy did it to especially great effect.

I think "the third film" will always be a tough one to crack, especially if you've made a hugely successful and "bigger, better and darker" part 2. It's a tricky thing to top yourself again while the novelty is starting to wear off on the audience. If I was making a third film though I'd certainly be inspired by the epic scope and stronger emotional pull of TDKR though.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I think the "genre switching" model between the three films is something that will be emulated. Not that this trilogy invented that, it's been done with other films (Harry Potter franchise being a big example) but I think this trilogy did it to especially great effect.

I think "the third film" will always be a tough one to crack, especially if you've made a hugely successful and "bigger, better and darker" part 2. It's a tricky thing to top yourself again while the novelty is starting to wear off on the audience. If I was making a third film though I'd certainly be inspired by the epic scope and stronger emotional pull of TDKR though.

Not to mention the way it closes things out.

 

[ajvenigalla]

Here is my perspective.

The Dark Knight Rises, while not as good as its predecessor, will probably be positively received in the future, though it will be divided in reception.

For example, most people from differnet groups, from regular moviegoers to film scholars to critics to cinephiles, will probably love this movie along with the rest of the trilogy, while a sizable group will dislike this movie for

• Not living up fully to its predecessors (BB and TDK)
• Alleged plot holes and logical inconsistences that require leaps of faith
• Not being the most exact to the character of BB and TDK, with Batman not being Batman at the beginning of TDKR; this upset many of the fans, but most weren't bothered by it.

So, my brief summary is: The Dark Knight Rises's reputation will grow and survive the backlash it is receiving, but still there will be critics.

 

[shauner111]

Perfect way to describe it.

 

[DeadPresident]

I foresee a time when TDKT will be mentioned in the same breath as Schumacher's movies by the "hardcore" CB community.

 

[shauner111]

Ummm no.

 

[BatLobster]

Haha, yeah you'll have a few "fringe" people who would go that far, but I'm going to try and keep a little more faith in humanity than that for now.

 

[ajvenigalla]

Haha, yeah you'll have a few "fringe" people who would go that far, but I'm going to try and keep a little more faith in humanity than that for now.

That's fair. Like I said, for the most part, TDKR will receive the praise it deserves and it might become more appreciated by the majority as well as by those who love the movie, but it will receive more hatred in the community that already hates it.


BTW, unlike most forms of backlash, I find the TDKR backlash (and TDKT backlash as a whole) to be truly interesting, because before I found out about it, I assumed that TDKR received little criticism, but then I found out about things I never knew were issues with some people before, from Batman not being Batman at the beginning, to Bane's voice, to Talia twist (which I never really knew was a problem until now), and the other things.


So there: the reputation of TDKR will be positive and divisive at the same time.

 

[shauner111]

If anybody watches Shumacher's movies back to back with any of the 3 Nolan movies, and puts them in the same category, they have serious mental issues. They belong in Arkham Asylum.

 

[ajvenigalla]

If anybody watches Shumacher's movies back to back with any of the 3 Nolan movies, and put them in the same category, they have serious mental issues.

I won't say they have serious mental issues, but yeah, that is pretty crazy, and I haven't seen seen Schumacher's Batman movies (though I did see the Nostalgia Critic's review of Batman and Robin, which made me laugh really hard and revealed the entire movie to me anyways).


I think that not even the most intelligent of TDKT haters would stoop to that low; I can understand the backlash behind TDKR (even though I disagree with the "haters"), but this is just crazy, comparing Schumacher's movies to Nolan's movies. Even if you don't consider Nolan's trilogy to be a masterpiece (like I do as well as the majority does), you should at least acknolwedge that it was better than the Schumacher movies (though there is room for debate as to whether they are superior to Burton's Batman movies).

 

[BatLobster]

I mean they just don't belong in the same category at all. Just leave quality aside, the two visions couldn't be more different.

I do, however, suspect that if Batfleck has the grey and black suit and ends up being the closest to the comics, a lot of hardcore fans will lump in ALL the previous movies together as "movie-ized" Batman and embrace Batfleck as the "true", comics come to life Batman.

But the Nolan films have a level of mainstream critical and audience respect that will be very hard to surpass in the near future. I mean TDK is no. 5 on the IMDB top 250 for crying out loud, and TDKR is hangin' in tough at 47. They're in really, really good company.

 

[Shikamaru]

I prefer Batman Forever over TDKR. I am serious when I say that. In fact, it was my favorite of the live-action Batman films before BB came out, but that's not saying much. I guess it is off to Arkham with me then.

 

[BatLobster]

Of course you do Shika. It did the the Batman...forever ending.

(I'm seriously just kidding...let's not get into a debate based on that. To each his own.)

 

[shauner111]

Haha. If you have more fun with Forever, and think that version of the character falls more in line with how you see him compared to Rises, then more power to yuh! But i personally don't just prefer a batman movie over another just because it feels more Batman to me. I choose Rises because i think it's a better made film than Forever, with better acting. Ill take a good movie that isn't very "batman" over a bad movie that feels more like "batman" if you know what im sayin! Im a film geek before i am a batman geek, sorry folks!

Plus, Rises DOES feature the batman that i prefer anyway. Forever has fun scenes but nothing more, it's still horrible in an entertaining way. Silver-age Batman is just not my cup of tea. Which is Shumacher in a nutshell. Ill take the Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, Cult and Knightfall influenced Batman movie over Val friggin Kilmer.

 

[Shikamaru]

Of course you do Shika. It did the the Batman...forever ending.

You win the internet, sir.

For the record, I don't think it is a masterpiece, or even just good. I think it is ok. Not the disaster of a Batman film everyone makes it out to be. I think most of the crap it gets is due to Batman & Robin. If anything, I find it to be the deepest film in the old franchise (that doesn't exactly make it a "deep film" though). I say this because I know at least one user will read what I wrote and assume that I meant "Even that piece of crap Forever was a better piece of crap than TDKR".

Haha. If you have more fun with Forever, and think that version of the character falls more in line with how you see him compared to Rises, then more power to yuh! But i personally don't just prefer a batman movie over another just because it feels more Batman to me. I choose Rises because i think it's a better made film than Forever, with better acting. Ill take a good movie that isn't very "batman" over a bad movie that feels more like "batman" if you know what im sayin! Im a film geek before i am a batman geek, sorry folks!

Plus, Rises DOES feature the batman that i prefer anyway. Forever has fun scenes but nothing more, it's still horrible in an entertaining way. Silver-age Batman is just not my cup of tea. Which is Shumacher in a nutshell. Ill take the Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, Cult and Knightfall influenced Batman movie over Val friggin Kilmer.

A lot of my likes of that film comes from nostalgia; I won't deny that. There is an element of fun that comes with it due to my childhood. But I don't like it just because "it's more Batman". I like a lot of the things it explores with the characters. I just wish more of that was there (and I blame that on WB). Plus, Kilmer wasn't that bad. I thought he did a good job whenever out of the suit.

And yes, I'll also take The Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, Cult and Knightfall over Batman Forever any day. But TDKR isn't any of those things; it takes influences from it, but it is a separate story altogether. A separate story with all those elements not even, in my opinion, being properly merged together or executed well.

 

[BatLobster]

Forever has it merits, I hear you. That's all part of why I disagree with the two films being lumped together. Whether you like Forever and hate TDKR or hate both films, you can't say that they have the same strengths...or weaknesses. They're polar opposites in so many ways. Lumping Schumacher and Nolan together would be just kind of pointless.

It's like how a lot of fans dislike both Superman Returns and Man of Steel. But they still acknowledge that the films are worlds apart, and almost exact opposites of each other.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah nostalgia is a ***** sometimes. That's why i can never turn my back on Batman Returns. The 4 year old in me tells me it's an awesome visual experience that blew my mind so i can't completely call it a piece of trash. I still have to find the good in it.

Kilmer was a solid Bruce Wayne but a crap batman IMO.

Of course Rises is a seperate story, but it takes inspiration from those comics. Just like begins or knight weren't long halloween or year one. It comes down to preference too though, because id rather Nolan's approach where he took influence but still left out a massive amount in order to create his own thing. Especially when he took several comics and merged them together. Im a guy who finds adaptations boring. Like, if Rises ended the same as Returns or had the mutant leader, a battle with Superman..id find that boring because i can pick up the graphic novel. He'll take a few things then move on.

 

[Shikamaru]

I would never lump TDKR together with Batman & Robin. Like you said, the issues people take with them are worlds apart. They're not even comparable. Plus, most TDKR critics don't even think it was a bad film; just "bad" by Nolan's previous standards and by the standard the film sets for itself.

Yeah nostalgia is a ***** sometimes. That's why i can never turn my back on Batman Returns. The 4 year old in me tells me it's an awesome visual experience that blew my mind so i can't completely call it a piece of trash. I still have to find the good in it.

Kilmer was a solid Bruce Wayne but a crap batman IMO.

Of course Rises is a seperate story, but it takes inspiration from those comics. Just like begins or knight weren't long halloween or year one. It comes down to preference too though, because id rather Nolan's approach where he took influence but still left out a massive amount in order to create his own thing. Especially when he took several comics and merged them together. Im a guy who finds adaptations boring. Like, if Rises ended the same as Returns or had the mutant leader, a battle with Superman..id find that boring because i can pick up the graphic novel. He'll take a few things then move on.

I prefer that approach as well. I didn't go in expecting the Mutant Leader or Gotham being hit by an earthquake.

 

[shauner111]

That's why movies like 300, Watchmen don't have much of a lasting effect on me. If Dark Knight Returns was adapted id probably feel the same way.

 

[Shikamaru]

300 was good. Watchmen's problem was trying to adapt Watchmen in the first place. It wasn't exactly the best book for an adaptation. It is a story you have to read at your own pace or you miss important details otherwise. That's why it mostly only made sense to those that read the book.

Also, The Dark Knight Returns was adapted into a two-part animated feature. I thought it was very well done. There are some issues I have with it here and there (mostly little things they censored), but it was a great adaptation overall IMO.

I agree that straight-up adapting stories isn't necessary though. They can be done well, but they're not something I'm just really thrilled to see. But I'm fine them being done once in a while.

 

[DeadPresident]

Haha, yeah you'll have a few "fringe" people who would go that far, but I'm going to try and keep a little more faith in humanity than that for now.

I got none left >_>

 

[shauner111]

I mean for live-action. Animated is fine for adaptations. I loved Returns.

 

[milost]

I like Batman Forever more than Rises too, but it's still "meh" to me. The only way I can get into Forever is if I'm feeling nostalgic and get into that 1994, 1995 mode of thinking with the promotion, trailers and posters. That's the only way.

I'd never say Rises is "as bad" as the Schumacher Batflicks because, well, I think Nolan and Co. took it seriously. It wasn't made to sell toys (except maybe the vehicles), it was an earnest movie. I highly doubt Nolan thought audiences would think things like Bane's voice, Talia (and her death), Blake, etc. were friggin' goofy like Schumacher did with all those jokes. Case in point, Nolan's reaction to the criticism towards the prologue. So even though I hate TDKR, I'll give them that.

Part of me wishes he still walked away like he contemplated about doing after 2008. Just move on to Interstellar or a Howard Hughes biopic or something. After seeing what we ended up getting and only taking away a decent Selina Kyle and action scenes from it all, I wouldn't have minded Batman driving off into the night. Then again, Warner Bro. would have probably still ran things into the ground. I also doubt a pissed, contractually obligated Christian Bale Batman would have been better than a Nolan directed one. Then again, who knows. I bet Batman's altered crappy voice and demeanor is all Nolan's idea judging by what Bale did on his own in the screen tests and his performance as Batman in Begins. Also in retrospect, he (Nolan) wouldn't have gotten the millions he probably earned and TDKR wouldn't have made that billion for WB. Who knows though.

 

[georgec]

I foresee a time when TDKT will be mentioned in the same breath as Schumacher's movies by the "hardcore" CB community.

I could swear that's already happened.

 

[BatLobster]

What's done is done I suppose. Those who don't like TDKR don't ever have to watch it again, while those of us who do get our complete trilogy.