• Xenforo is upgrading us to version 2.3.7 on Thursday Aug 14, 2025 at 01:00 AM BST. This upgrade includes several security fixes among other improvements. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

Doctor Who - Big 5-0 Edition!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Looks like Lawrence Miles hated AAISAT.

Originally Posted by Lawrence Miles
Friday, November 22, 2013
One Day There Will Come a Point When Everyone Realises That I Actually Did Just Want Things to Be Nice
I don't want to keep arguing. I really, really don't. I was writing a blog that gave up fighting forever. And then, "An Adventure in Space and Time"...

...and being so angry, I tweeted about it, may my bones rot. And then I realised, moments later, that this will be taken as some sort of grudge match. Moments after that, I started getting tweets asking me to justify my angst. "Ahh, it's not a documentary! Yeah, it gets some facts wrong, so what? Isn't this a great way of telling the story of the programme in the early years? Oh, you just don't like Mark Gatiss!"

It does, indeed, get facts wrong. Just like Mel Gibson movies get facts wrong. It gets facts wrong to a degree that would be actionable if those involved were still alive.

"Facts" like people's entire professional lives. Here are the two chief victims.

1. Verity Lambert was hard as nails. In a script full of stereotypes, she becomes an off-the-shelf silhouette from Mad Men, a token woman whose purpose is to oppose The Male Hierarchy without having any life of her own. Ooh, look! The Old Boys at the BBC aren't listening to her, so she has to clear her throat and shout just to find her voice...! Bullcrap. The reason Newman described her as "piss and vinegar" (a term repeated throughout this ¤¤¤¤-pie, since Gatiss can't be bothered doing more than surface research) is that she was terrifying before she got the Who gig. We recall that when an actor died live on TV in 1958, it was Lambert who fixed it without breaking a sweat. We recall that by the time "An Adventure..." portrays her as a young woman gulping at the thought of having to face a room full of BBC humbuggers, she'd already been threatening productions into shape on both sides of the Atlantic and was openly complaining about the fact that those bastards wouldn't let her produce or direct. "An Adventure..." has her shuffle into an office like a new girl who's had a tail welded between her legs as part of an initiation ceremony. Because, gee, that's what women did in the early '60s! Right?

In short: Verity Lambert, the greatest left-wing feminist firebrand in the history of British television. Reduced by this script to a simpering girl-who-learns-self-confidence (aged 28...!) and only becomes a Proper Character when she shouts down Sydney Newman in his office after he pushes her that one step too far. I'm not suggesting Mark Gatiss is a misogynist, I'm just saying that maybe he doesn't appreciate the way female characters are... no, ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ it, I am saying that. He can't write a workable female character unless it's based on his own mum. By the time her fiction-self starts whining on about not being taken seriously, the real Verity would already have been flicking ***-ash in Sydney's face.

2. Sydney Newman was not, as "An Adventure..." suggests, a 1930s film producer exactly like Cecil B. DeMille. You probably knew that anyway, but you let it slide because it was funny. What isn't funny is the thought that although Newman could certainly hold his own against TV execs on all sides, here a dead man who can't defend himself is made to look exactly like one of the people he enjoyed fighting. He had a North American accent; ergo, he has to behave like the boss of a major TV network in an '80s movie, or possibly Scarface. But Newman was the most inventive producer of his era, and although it's true that his background in commercial telly made him wise to the needs of Those Who Pay For This, he really liked the oddness that a space-time series could bring. "An Adventure..." begins with Newman suggesting an SF programme because The Kids will go for it, whereas in truth, he honestly wanted to see what would happen. Note the way his creation of The Avengers is mentioned as a side-note, delivered as if he's the boss and his minions did all the hard work. Because obviously, this American-talking cigar-chomper couldn't possibly have done anything really creative.

Even though he did. Repeatedly. Doctor Who was incomplete when it came out of his mouth / subconscious, but he was undeniably its source. For that, he's now treated like a monumental git. He thought up Adam Adamant Lives not by wondering what would sell, but by looking out of his window at roadworks and thinking "hang on, what if...?". And we should bear in mind that Newman chiefly objected to bug-eyed-monsters not because of personal anti-Martian issues, but because the Frick-Braybon report at the BBC said they definitely didn't work on television. He loved science fiction, and openly said so.

Among the people Sydney Newman promoted in their TV careers were Harold Pinter, Dennis Potter, and Ken Loach. Again, he apparently did this despite being a mogul from three decades previously who just couldn't resist sticking that cheroot in his mouth while going "waak, waak, waak" like the Penguin.

The clincher comes in the everyone-knows-this-never-happened scene of "An Adventure..." in which Newman congratulates Lambert on her Daleks getting ten-million viewers, and retracts his previous views re: aliens. "WOO!" yells Lambert, running down the corridor. But the BBC didn't treat the ratings as their guide in the early '60s: when independent television began stealing the viewers in 1955, many at the BBC even breathed a sigh of relief, since it meant they didn't have to be populist any more. Big Dalek ratings would indeed have been welcomed by Our Verity - who doesn't like being liked? - but presenting this as a scene in which she stands before Newman the Network Chief, justifying the series in terms of viewing figures, is simply drivel. Yes, yes, we can accept him as the producer-figure long after he was actually producing. We can swallow it as part of the story. But making a good (dead) man look like a cynical arch-scheduler is just... rude.

In short: The person who first thought of Doctor Who, then summoned up the best people to make it happen, is a corporate monster who lurks behind a desk and dwells on the ratings despite having no real reason to do so. His dialogue is so awful that even non-professor Brian Cox can't make him look good. It's horrible, partly because it's made of lies, but mostly because the real Sydney was always trying to do something interesting. And this version only exists because Cigar-Faced TV Producer Stereotype is easy to write, whereas actual Sydney Newman isn't. Nonetheless, this version is in the TV pseudo-drama, and will be repeated at every anniversary from now on as if it were true.

Mark Gatiss. You are the Mel Gibson of fandom. Please, please stop trying to write. You were very good in The League of Gentlemen, but being a talented comic actor doesn't qualify you as a writer. Your Doctor Who scripts are mediocre at best, and even then, you're relying on the designers to bail you out. Your Poirot adaptations are also terrible. Just... stop. All right? Comic acting. You're good at that. Keep it up.

There. Tomorrow, my "nice" goodbye. The one I was planning on writing.
 
He is entitled to his own opinions. His blog reveals that he has a long-standing hatred of Gaiman, Gatiss, and Moffat. He criticizes Gaiman nastily in one of his posts, but he forgets that Gaiman has a celebrated career in television, comics,and fiction: the sheer number of awards attests to some quality. Oddly enough, I could not a list of awards that Miles has won. Considering how much of a troll he is, one would expect it to be listed on his website or on the top five results from Google. Pending some revelation that he has a cabinet full of Hugos and Bram Stoker Awards he forget to mention, his claim to fame consists of Doctor Who novels and some critical texts on the show.



Compare this pending list tothis.
 
Dude sounds like a whiny fanboy, not a professional writer. Any points he might have had are ruined by his attitude.
 
Everything I have ever heard or read from this guy leads me to conclude he is pretty much just:

comicbookguy.gif



I mean that:

40385.jpg
 
Just watched An Adventure in Space and Time. Beautiful and moving.
 
He is entitled to his own opinions. His blog reveals that he has a long-standing hatred of Gaiman, Gatiss, and Moffat. He criticizes Gaiman nastily in one of his posts, but he forgets that Gaiman has a celebrated career in television, comics,and fiction: the sheer number of awards attests to some quality. Oddly enough, I could not a list of awards that Miles has won. Considering how much of a troll he is, one would expect it to be listed on his website or on the top five results from Google. Pending some revelation that he has a cabinet full of Hugos and Bram Stoker Awards he forget to mention, his claim to fame consists of Doctor Who novels and some critical texts on the show.



Compare this pending list tothis.

Anyone who badmouths Gaiman is automatically a terrible human being.
 
There is a difference between objectively assessing (and not liking something) and being a complete, unrepentant ********.
 
I watched 'Adventures...' and of course some of it may be changed or fictionalised cos that's what happens with these things but at least the main story is pushed forth and i thought it was a brilliant beautiful thing that did almost make me cry at the end when the people spoke of the real William Hartnell. Was very touching, I didnt much like the guy who played Patrick Troughton but I get the feeling we should feel uneasy about him because we care for 'Bill' or 'Mr Hartnell'. I would like Gatiss to do another one with Patrick Troughton and so on. I am wanting more which is good
 
To be honest, I'd rather have a biopic on the revival of Dr. Who in 10-20 years
 
I take it anyone includes those who disliked Nightmare in Silver then

Nah. I may be stretching it with my generalization, but like jonathancrane said, there is a difference between criticizing a work by someone or disliking something and being a sour puss.

I can understand someone not liking an individual piece of Gaiman's work, but the man has proven himself over the course of his career as an incredible talent. I mean... Sandman. I feel like that's all I should have to say in support of Gaiman's talents and merits.

However, I don't know the nature I the comments made about Gaiman, Moffat, and others, so I could be really stretching it here, and I can admit that.
 
Lawrence Miles is perhaps one of the most brilliant writers of Doctor Who ever. His novels are amazing....but he's always been kind of a cock.
 
Just finished 'An Adventure in Space and Time'.

That was some of the most brilliant television I've seen in a LONG time.

And can someone please send David Bradley his BAFTA already?
 
That was really sweet, and so heartbreaking.
 
very well done... and that was so cool at the end seeing Bradley as Hartnell giving Matt that wink....
 
When Matt popped up I was half expecting the other Doctors to follow. Seeing them all give the original a standing ovation of sorts. But what they did works as well.

I did love that moment between William and Patrick.
 
Oh no! Lawrence "the only writer left in the franchise who still treats the looms as canon" Miles hated it. Whatever shall we do? :dry:
 
Just got through watching AAISAT. The last scene with Matt's cameo just made my art piece all the more special.

destiny_in_the_stars_by_conjob1989-d6hwphl.jpg
 
Oh no! Lawrence "the only writer left in the franchise who still treats the looms as canon" Miles hated it. Whatever shall we do? :dry:

Hey, hey! Don't knock the Looms, Grandpa!

Hhmmm! Nobody has grandfathers these days. ;)
 
Ok, I can't wait anymore. Who fever is high. I'm seeing people walking around in bow-ties and jackets too!
 
I agree to some degree that movies and dramas make up things and falsify the truth, but that's also a part of drama. I don't always like it, but sometimes the truth is not as satisfying as the fictional version.

The scene with Robert Guillaume and Albert Finney's son in Big Fish is a good example. Finney's son played by Billy Crudup grew tired of his dad's outlandish stories and tall tales. Guillaume told him the real story about when he was born and it was just a normal ho hum little story and explained that his dad makes up and embellishes the truth because it's more fun and that's why people liked him.

People want the imaginative, fake stories. They don't want the truth.

And if the films based on true events presented the truthful version they probably wouldn't be as exciting or enticing to viewers.

Saving Mr. Banks is a good example. While I'm sure a lot of the movie had some factual basis, there are a ton of things in it that I'm sure never actually happened.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
201,848
Messages
22,034,658
Members
45,830
Latest member
brambleheart
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"