Doctor Who - Regeneration 9

[Manic]

Davies was better at characters, but Moffat is better at stories. Davies' plots usually fell apart pretty easily, but he could write a mean character arc (see: the 9th Doctor's journey, the 10th Doctor's unchecked ego being a recurring problem, Martha coming to terms with her feelings for the Doctor and learning to move on). Davies' original monsters were also pretty weak.

Moffat tends to wander out of the world of sci-fi and into pure fantasy sometimes, but his stories usually make more sense given the rules established within them. His characters take a lot more work to analyze, and there's a recurring complaint about most of his female characters being the same. However, his original monsters tend to be pretty cool, and he's very good at exploiting mundane childhood fears (Vashta Nerada and fear of the dark, Weeping Angels and the fear that statues are watching you, the gas mask zombies and a fear of getting lost).

Davies also used his soap box a lot more, to an annoying degree. Davies is anti-military, and that resulted in UNIT (classic allies of the Doctor) being portrayed as incompetent, needlessly brutal, and just plain cruel. Moffat's soap box moments tend to come in the form of how he views families and relationships, and it's a little more subtle.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It's funny, in general (and I am generalizing), the British prefer RTD and Americans prefer Moffat. I always thought RTD just wrote good stories, whereas Moffat uses lots of climaxes, special effects and paradoxes.

Definitely generalising. Most people I know only prefer the RTD era because it had Tennant, and even then most admit Smith has better episodes.

Having said that, whilst I prefer the Grand Moff, I have no massive problems with RTD.

 

[The Batman]

Davies was better at characters, but Moffat is better at stories. Davies' plots usually fell apart pretty easily, but he could write a mean character arc (see: the 9th Doctor's journey, the 10th Doctor's unchecked ego being a recurring problem, Martha coming to terms with her feelings for the Doctor and learning to move on). Davies' original monsters were also pretty weak.

Moffat tends to wander out of the world of sci-fi and into pure fantasy sometimes, but his stories usually make more sense given the rules established within them. His characters take a lot more work to analyze, and there's a recurring complaint about most of his female characters being the same. However, his original monsters tend to be pretty cool, and he's very good at exploiting mundane childhood fears (Vashta Nerada and fear of the dark, Weeping Angels and the fear that statues are watching you, the gas mask zombies and a fear of getting lost).

Davies also used his soap box a lot more, to an annoying degree. Davies is anti-military, and that resulted in UNIT (classic allies of the Doctor) being portrayed as incompetent, needlessly brutal, and just plain cruel. Moffat's soap box moments tend to come in the form of how he views families and relationships, and it's a little more subtle.

This.

It's why I can't really sit here and say one is better than the other. Both to me have great strengths and great flaws. I mean, its easy to say "Moffat was better than RTD during the RTD era" when Moffat only wrote 1-2 stories a season, but RTD not only wrote more stories, he also rewrote most of the other writers stories as well.

Gaiman is a better writer than Moffat under the Moffat era, but if he had the responsibilities of being showrunner, his flaws would be more apparent as well.

 

[Swordmaster]

With Modern Who, I suppose it just comes down to preference. I'll admit the majority of Series 6 being about River is irritating, though I have no real problems with the character. One thing I do like about the Moffat era, overall, is that the season's tend to have happy endings, whereas the RTD era was pretty damn depressing at times, needlessly so. Donna, I'm looking at you.

 

[Lord Valumart]

You've also got to take into account that Moffat is doing Sherlock stuff as well. Which is a big thing as well.

I know RTD has Torchwood and SJA, but I think he barely touched those beyond poping his head in and asking how everything was going. Except that one SJA episode he wrote where the Doctor said that when he was regenerating from 10 to 11 he visited every single one of his companions one last time... It's crap like that that annoys me.

But yes, the 9th Doctor's arc is really good and RTD's characters were mostly realistic and believable. He just constantly wrote himself into holes and corners.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Davies also used his soap box a lot more, to an annoying degree. Davies is anti-military, and that resulted in UNIT (classic allies of the Doctor) being portrayed as incompetent, needlessly brutal, and just plain cruel. Moffat's soap box moments tend to come in the form of how he views families and relationships, and it's a little more subtle.

This past week Moffat's story felt like it veered into RTD's territory. We even went back to modern day London!

RTD's had his ATMOS(pollution) warning

Moffat has his pet peeve about wifi and twitter


This week was Moffat trying to emulate RTD's style.

Which feels weird after we just had five episodes that were supposed to be movie level quality. We're back to TV level stories.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that about the episode.

While I liked it, the intro teaser felt more like Torchwood then Who. At least Moffat's Who.

In fact, most every scene with the corporation felt like Torchwood or RTD Who now that I think about it.

 

[Lord Valumart]

Now hang on, this Zygon came about a bit quick didn't it? And we've got John Hurt as a big name. Now, the Zygon is in the same feild as 10's TARDIS. It's going to just be a cameo isn't it? Just a random filler bit to reintroduce 10 and Rose, just to make Tennant happy that he worked with Zygons...

 

[Manic]

The latest episode took a few potshots at social networking, but they weren't really treated as some massive problem that was bringing down society or holding anybody back. The bad guys simply exploited everyone's search for a free un-passworded wifi connection.

That's different from, say, every single politician turning bad or being a jerk. Even Harriet Jones, a lovable character if there ever was one, was treated as though she were the villain in the final few minutes of the episode. The Christmas Invasion honestly could've ended with the Sycorax running away, but Davies had to insert his anti-authority message by having Harriet shoot them down as they ran away. Because, you know, even the nicest of people turn bad once they become authority figures.

Then there was Captain Magambo in Planet of the Dead. The Doctor and several civilians were on their way back to Earth on the bus, but she was like "Nope! Let's not wait for these people to be brought back to safety. I want you to close the door as soon as you figure out how, even if I have to point a gun at you, Lovable Scientist Malcolm whom the audience identifies with!"

 

[COMPO]

Nathan-Turner/Cartmel/McCoy doesn't get enough love.

They did have some good stories. Currently read 'script doctor' its a good read.

Nothing beats Hinchcliffe/Baker as far as I'm concerned.

Totally agree.

Hinchcliff/Holmes/Baker is pretty much the epitome of Classic Who, with Williams/Holmes/Baker close behind.

Then there's the mess that was Nathan-Turner/Saward/C.Baker, where the show was on the constant brink of cancellation and nobody knew what they were doing. That Colin got any decent stories at all is a miracle.

Mostly because JNT didn't want to use established writers, he wanted to use new writers and Seward found it hard to get people who could do it.

I still think they should bring in Arronovitch or Cartmel to do some work on the new series. Not like make big massive arcs, just to write an episode each.

But the best writers the new series has had since it came back have been Gaiman and Whithouse.

I would love to have the story they were gonna have planned pre-cancellation with the aliens who have to present you with guns to kill you. Sounded interesting.

The "far more than just another Time Lord thing" was about him being there at the start of their race. When they invented time travel and all that jazz. That he was like Rassilon or Omega, that kind of standing. That he was important, not just some guy.

It'd be bloody stupid for him to be God anyhow. That's a whole can of worms no one wants to open.

Oh yeah the 'Other' good idea. Even if you do reveal that's what the Doctor is, you still don't know anything about him, you don't know what he is.

I keep looking for other Doctors in the background

I thought I saw Colin Baker in the other pic.

Okay I just read on FB that Matt Smith and Moffat are leaving after the Chrissy special. Please tell me it's just a made up news story?
It also mentioned RTD has been invited to return as show runner.

Or is it April fools day in the UK?

I've heard he's staying on till 2014.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Really hoping Tennant is 10 and not the other thing. Looking at the those pics again, and they are pretty cool.

Davies was better at characters, but Moffat is better at stories. Davies' plots usually fell apart pretty easily, but he could write a mean character arc (see: the 9th Doctor's journey, the 10th Doctor's unchecked ego being a recurring problem, Martha coming to terms with her feelings for the Doctor and learning to move on). Davies' original monsters were also pretty weak.

Moffat tends to wander out of the world of sci-fi and into pure fantasy sometimes, but his stories usually make more sense given the rules established within them. His characters take a lot more work to analyze, and there's a recurring complaint about most of his female characters being the same. However, his original monsters tend to be pretty cool, and he's very good at exploiting mundane childhood fears (Vashta Nerada and fear of the dark, Weeping Angels and the fear that statues are watching you, the gas mask zombies and a fear of getting lost).

Davies also used his soap box a lot more, to an annoying degree. Davies is anti-military, and that resulted in UNIT (classic allies of the Doctor) being portrayed as incompetent, needlessly brutal, and just plain cruel. Moffat's soap box moments tend to come in the form of how he views families and relationships, and it's a little more subtle.

I wouldn't say RTD wrote better characters. His best character work was 9 and the first season Rose. It seriously went down hill from there.

RTD's biggest asset was his ability to appeal to base emotion with the outrageous and promise of romance. In a way, his Who was kind of like Twilight.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This past week Moffat's story felt like it veered into RTD's territory. We even went back to modern day London!

RTD's had his ATMOS(pollution) warning

Moffat has his pet peeve about wifi and twitter


This week was Moffat trying to emulate RTD's style.

Which feels weird after we just had five episodes that were supposed to be movie level quality. We're back to TV level stories.

Was it a pet peeve? It just seemed like a way to tie it back to the Great Intelligence.

I personally loved it and it didn't really feel like RTD to me. Mainly because it was a somewhat subtle take on the Doctor going through the courting process without even knowing it. If it was RTD the Doctor would be romancing our fair lady in a not so subtle way.

The only problem I have had with the last two episodes (Snowmen and Bells) is the constant need to bring up "Doctor Who?".

This.

It's why I can't really sit here and say one is better than the other. Both to me have great strengths and great flaws. I mean, its easy to say "Moffat was better than RTD during the RTD era" when Moffat only wrote 1-2 stories a season, but RTD not only wrote more stories, he also rewrote most of the other writers stories as well.

Gaiman is a better writer than Moffat under the Moffat era, but if he had the responsibilities of being showrunner, his flaws would be more apparent as well.

Gaiman is the better writer under Moffat's era after one story? I love "The Doctor's Wife". One of my 10 favorite episodes. But my favorite Doctor Who episodes are "The Eleventh Hour" and the Angel 2-parter, and they both came during Moffat's own era.

I also think it is easy to say Moffat is better. Better individual episodes, and so far 2 and half better seasons then RTD was able to put together. Season 6 was a comedown because season 5 was as close as the series has got to perfection, but season 6 was still better then anything RTD put together. RTD's best season was his first. He really couldn't write an arc, so what you were left with is the individual episodes.

 

[Gold Samurai]

I personally loved it and it didn't really feel like RTD to me. Mainly because it was a somewhat subtle take on the Doctor going through the courting process without even knowing it. If it was RTD the Doctor would be romancing our fair lady in a not so subtle way.

Which reminds me of the 10th doctor's creepyish way he lured Martha and Donna

Donna- I don't what i'm going to do. I just lost my job.

The Doctor- *Creepy stare* You could come with me......

That sort of thing. It was part "I'm lonely" and "WITNESS THE AWESOMENESS OF THE TIMELORD RACE!"

He got selfish.

 

[The Squirrel]

Donna had all her bags packed and was ready to go, The Doctor didn't have to do much convincing.

 

[C. Lee]

I guess the chances of ever seeing another "older" incarnation of the Doctor is out of the question.....or maybe not until another 100 years pass.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Donna had all her bags packed and was ready to go, The Doctor didn't have to do much convincing.

What 10 did to Martha was all kinds of wrong, and I don't even like Martha.

10 ended up being very self-absorbed, with his final words sealing that. 11 is immature about his relationship, but he seems to understand his the effect he has on others lives. He just doesn't quite know how to handle it because he is immature. Avoiding the Ponds, hiding away in Victorian England, etc.

I guess the chances of ever seeing another "older" incarnation of the Doctor is out of the question.....or maybe not until another 100 years pass.

When you say "older", how old?

 

[Gold Samurai]

Donna had all her bags packed and was ready to go, The Doctor didn't have to do much convincing.

"The Runaway Bride" Donna was sacred

 

[The Batman]

Gaiman is the better writer under Moffat's era after one story?

Since you're, unless I'm mistaken, apparently saying that Moffat's 2 1/2 seasons are already better than RTD's 4 1/2, yeah. But even if you weren't....yeah.

I also think it is easy to say Moffat is better. Better individual episodes, and so far 2 and half better seasons then RTD was able to put together. Season 6 was a comedown because season 5 was as close as the series has got to perfection, but season 6 was still better then anything RTD put together. RTD's best season was his first. He really couldn't write an arc, so what you were left with is the individual episodes.

I mean, obviously all this is opinion, but Season 6 was a comedown because Season 6 wasn't that strong, and it really isnt better than anything RTD did, but again...opinions. And in mine, Series 5 was good, Series 6 was a bit weak, and Series 7 is decent so far. Its not like Moffat is miles ahead of RTD like most in this thread seem to think.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Since you're, unless I'm mistaken, apparently saying that Moffat's 2 1/2 seasons are already better than RTD's 4 1/2, yeah. But even if you weren't....yeah.

2 1/2 years as show runner is a pretty large sample size. More so then 1 episode. Also for the vast majority of his episodes, Moffat has been doing very well as a writer during his show running.

If we judged a writer on one episode, Gatiss might have been the best writer with "The Unquiet Dead".

I mean, obviously all this is opinion, but Season 6 was a comedown because Season 6 wasn't that strong, and it really isnt better than anything RTD did, but again...opinions. And in mine, Series 5 was good, Series 6 was a bit weak, and Series 7 is decent so far. Its not like Moffat is miles ahead of RTD like most in this thread seem to think.

As you said, opinion, and yes, he clearly is ahead for me.

Season 6 suffered from a few weak individual episodes. As a whole, it is a very strong in terms of a cohesive whole compared to RTD. All the major arc episodes were at the least very good. Plus two excellent individual episodes (The Doctor's Wife and The Girl Who Waited) and few other strong ones (Closing Time, The God Complex and the Flesh 2-parter). We have also have never come close to reaching the lows of the worst during RTD's run. There is no "Fear Her", "Idiot's Lantern", season 3 Dalek 2-parter, "Last of the Time Lords", "The Unicorn and the Wasp", "The End of Time" or "Journey's End".

RTD arcs barely qualified. Dropping Bad Wolf here and there is not how you write an arc.

 

[DrDoom]

I guess the chances of ever seeing another "older" incarnation of the Doctor is out of the question.....or maybe not until another 100 years pass.

The next Doctor should be radically different in either age, race, or gender.

While a female Doctor is by far the longest shot I would LOVE if Chiwetel Ejiofor or Lennie James were the next Doctor.

But then again it would limit his ability to travel to Earth's past, unless his pure awesomeness overpowered close-minded thinking.

 

[chaseter]

RTD did more DRAMA!!!

Moffat on the other hand uses time travel in his plots. He uses interesting twists and turns. He brought back the ****ING ZYGONS!!!!

Anyone who brings back the ****ING ZYGONS is better than anyone who didn't.

RTD's best episodes don't even come close to Moffat's best. RTD did a lot of butchering of many things and his whimsy and cheese were not loveable and quirky whimsy...it was just odd whimsy. I almost threw my remote at my tv when I saw this:

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I'm just getting a blank square, what's the picture of?

 

[chaseter]

When the Doctor turned into an elf in a cage locked by the Master.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Uh oh the thread absorbed the time vortex. This was a fantastic thread absolutely fantastic!

please don't post anymore. It would be great to end this thread on the 999 post

 

[obin_gam]

I think it can be confirmed now that Tennant is the real Doctor and not the hand-clone.
His TARDIS has been seen on set. So, it's probably an unseen Series 2 adventure for him and Rose.