The Dark Knight Rises Does Bane being a PURELY physical threat hamper him as a villain?

Great thread

As we know, Bane in the comics became a villain on his own, broke the Bat, got destroyed by JPV, then joined the LOS later

It would have been very hard to tell Bane's timeline in one movie, and I think that's why Nolan had him trained by the LOS and then break the Bat, in order to squeeze as much as possible in 1 movie

In that sense, I think it takes away some aspects of Bane

 

Christopher Nolan said it best when he said Ra's al Ghul represented the religious leader of sorts, Joker represents the anarchist and Bane represents the militant tyrant, which the last is always the hardest to try to develop but I feel Bane is developed perfectly enough as this physical threat but also this intellectual man.

 

It's all comparable to me. Sending most of the cops underground...rigging an entire hospital to blow when it's open 24/7.

It has nothing to do with Joker being a less logical character, it's just that the films have been playing by their own rules when it comes to the vulnerability of Gotham, in all 3.

Bane was shown to be precise and methodical, and very much behaved like a military commander. If you're saying his characterization was great Makaveli...well that was his characterization. So what are you getting at then?

 

Okay, that's different then.

Fair enough. For me though sometimes a great performance can help inform a character. For instance, we never really get to see Selina being a "master" jewel theif, but Anne played the role with such sophistication and confidence that I had no trouble buying into it.

 

Bane is hardly just a physical threat in this film. i thought the way he was written and performed to be this incredibly charismatic character who uses this to his advantage to really make Bruce and Gotham suffer. I also do think it was implied through some dialogue and the basic backstory that Bane had resentment toward both Bruce and Ra's for having cast him out while having chosen Bruce as his heir. Bruce shows he's not a true believer and betrays them. This layer permeates throughout both Bane and Talia's plan to be incredibly hurtful about their revenge, ultimately leading to their own demise just as had almost defeated Bruce. He had wanted to hurt the criminal world as he did by the end of TDK and begining of TDKR with the Dent act, but ultimately realizes the key is not in hurting, but in inspiring hope. Kind of like the idea in Looper about breaking the cycle of pain in order to move on. Bane is such a great foil, and this information is used to challenge Bruce both physically and mentally throughout this film, so it's a bit bizarre to see him characterized as a "purely" physical threat. He's definitely the most physical threat, but he's still more than that. While Joker challenged his moral code by being the opposite of Bruce, Bane presents another type of challenge by essentially being the Bruce Ra's had wanted him to be, and presenting Bruce with a dark mirror.

His motivation for wanting to destroy Gotham is the same as the rest of the characters - when he was young he was deeply affected by the conditions of his life (being stuck in a prison from a young age). Much of what Bane and Talia say throughout the film has to do with the unjust distribution of wealth and power. The sentencing hearing, as said by Crane, is sentencing those who have unjustly used power over those with less power than themselves. Ra's' reasonings for adopting the teachings of the LOS had to do with the sadness over the loss of a loved one. Bane's had to do with the condition of his upbringing, and being initially brought in by Ra's and his group until being cast out. In this way, Bane is actually alot like Blake, and Talia is more like Bruce. Bane and Blake were, from an early age, in a situation that made them seek out justice. But Bane's methods came from the LOS, and Blake's came from the Batman. Ra's, Talia and Bruce's desire for justice came from the pain of the loss of a loved one. It ultimately is Bruce's goal to inspire somebody like Blake to adopt his code for seeking justice by inspiring hope rather than through destruction and vengeance. Some very well thought out stuff.

 

At the end of the day, he knew how to outsmart Bats by leading him to the sewers. He knew just how to get him there, by securing Selinas allegiance with fear and having her lead him into what no-win scenario; trapped and surrounded by Bane and a fully armed small militia.

Batman to Selina: you're making a big mistake

Bane to Barman: Not as big as yours, I'm afraid......

Tht was boss. Admit it, that is a pretty solid example of Bane showing intellect and outsmarting Batman. Bats definitely made a mistake that time.

 

Bane represents more than a physical threat. In terms of social relevancy, he represents two aspects that threaten any establishment (which all three Batman films feature an aspect of, given that Batman is a definitively establishment figure). First he represents the dangers of radical, opportunistic populism. He uses misconstrued half-truths and real issues to create social unrest to his own benefit. He also represents the threat of military take over. Essentially a man who would be a dictator who takes power through military conquest.

That continues the themes of religious zealotry from Ra's Al Ghul (and Talia) anti-authority anarchy from the Joker.

But as a character, being a no-nonsense, efficient killing machine is simply not as charismatic or interesting as the tempting foil (Joker) or meglomaniac/evil father figure (Ra's), though I do think Bane was executed to the fullest of his character while I think Ra's could have been done even better.

My thoughts on it.

 

You mean like Joker assuming that no cop on the prisoner ferry would wire into the GCPD and ask for a bomb squad expert to help disarm the bomb? You mean like Joker assuming the cops would not convince the mayor on grounds of safety to hold Loeb's memorial service at a location without thousands of potentially open windows to the point where they're not looking at the people on the ground as threats? You mean like Joker assuming the chopper will fly at just the right level to hit his wires on the exact street that was needed to bring it down? Like the Joker assuming a cop would stay in the interrogation room with him, so he could be used as a hostage to escape?

Yep, it was only Bane who had to rely on the bad decisions of others to succeed.

 

^ Win.

 

Quoted for truth.

Ehhh there was like a hundred barrels rigged to blow up. No bomb squad guy could be reached and then get through a hundred barrels in the 15 minutes they had to blow each other up.

A funeral for a public servant like the police Commissioner is always gonna be held in the open city for the people to mourn him.

That chopper was flying at the same height all the way down the street over the armored car mon ami. The J-man just had his guys set up the trap a few feet ahead of it. Simples.

What makes ya think Joker didn't have other ideas to grab a hostage beside grabbing a Cop guarding him? He could have got anyone to come into that room for any diff reasons. Toilet call. Pretend he was sick after Batman beat the hell outta him. Creative sneaky mind like his woulda had no probs there.

 

What? Them offering him a purpose and a life beyond the darkness he lived in "until he was a man" wasn't enough for you?

In what regards Bane's plans: if you can suspend your disbelief when it comes to some of Joker's extraordinarily convoluted plans, then I can't see why you can't do the same for Bane's.

 

Ehhh he never said that. That would be a lame excuse for him to believe in everything they do just cos they saved his life. At least with Bruce and Ra's we know why they were justice crusaders.

 

You're making excuses for one and condemning another. How about telling us how the Joker got a hospital wired to explode on every floor, including doorframes, when it's open and full of people 24/7? Or how come GCPD had nobody on call near either location where Rachel and Harvey were held? If the city is in a state of emergency, why not hold the memorial by City Hall which has a clearing?

It is hypocrisy to hold the realism of the movies at different standards.

 

If that makes ya feel better about the plot holes of Rises then that's coolio.

If he can get in there dressed as a nurse than he could so easy have hench guys dressed as nurses, doctors, janitors, orderlies or whatevs and stash explosives all over the place on the sly.

Probably because most of 'em were tied up in the Harvey/Batman/Joker fiasco that just happened.

Who said the city was in a state of emergency. That didn't happen until after the J-Man blew up the hospital and the city got evacuated and the National Guard got called in.

 

Sorry man, but Bane isnt PURELY a physical villain. If you cant see past the plan he has with Talia, and actually look at what he's doing throughout the whole film (as well as his choice in dialogue)..then you probably need to watch the film a few more times.

Bane is an intelligent, militant, loyal and physical man.

 

What's so lame about believing in someone's ideals because they saved your life and took you in for training? Can you imagine how rotten life must've been for Bane growing up in that hellhole of a prison, especially after he gets mutilated? The LoS were the ones who offered him something beyond that and whose ideals are not that hard to reconcile with the perspectives on life Bane must've gained while growing up in prison. Considering the hardships he must've endured living down there all of his life and the ideals of the LoS established in BB, is it really that hard to believe he bought in to their objectives of bringing justice through balance (namely through setting examples by destroying decadent societies)?

As for his hate for Bruce, consider this. In Bane's eyes, Bruce Wayne is probably this rich dude who had everything and was accepted into the League, offered the chance to lead them against Gotham, but refused that chance on a whim. To Bane, who had to save the daughter of the LoS leader by getting mutilated and who lived all his life down a hellhole before even being offered the chance to join the League, Bruce's refusal must've looked like the biggest insult ever. Considering the fact that Bane seems to be this cocky and proud man, it's not that far of a stretch to assume his ego had something to do with the latter line of thinking.

 

No more than TDK. They mostly have the same plot holes. I don't know how I can make that clearer. It's just I don't care, because they both work as films, though TDK is superior.

Yes, because anyone can walk into a hospital dressed as a doctor and put explosives everywhere. How did they get them in that doorframe again and in every window fame?

Every one of the THOUSANDS of cop in a whole city was tied up in an affair that lasted about 15 minutes and had about 20 officers on the scene hours before the Joker's declaration?

"The police is out in force today..." says local newslady. They could have held it in a safer location, but chose not to, thereby making the Joker's plan easier to perform. Especially when he had to have had that location and apartment selected at least weeks before the parade. Like Bane, things have to break perfectly his way countless times.

 

It's lame because it's a damn stupid reason to believe in a bunch of things as strong as that just cos someone saved your ass. Ya don't know who Bane is or why he was in that pit. All ya know about Bane's past is he was in there for all his life and he liked Talia as a kid.

Why does he want justice, and hate rich people and all the other bull the LOS were babbling in this? Ya never find out.

At least with Ra's ya know why he thinks that way. Ya know based on Joker's scar stories why he has this crazy view about everyone being able to break like he did and go crazy.

Ya had to make up a bunch of conjecture ya never see or hear in the flick to try and justify why he hates Bruce. The movie shoulda given ya some of that instead of you making up fan fiction.

 

Well ya are right on the last part.

Yeah they can. It ain't fort knox.

Who says they got them in every window frame?

Yup. The Joker was the key threat to the city and they were setting a trap for him.

Ya could also say it's damn easy to believe in a big ass city there was easily two locations that didn't have any Cops in the vicinity. Easily. Ya see it all the time.

Sorry mon ami, that was never said in TDK.

 

Yes, God forbid I use my head and think of the character's background within the confines of the universe he's a part of. Why couldn't the director just spoon me all that info, eh?

Actually, you don't. Because he tells multiple origin tales in an obvious homage to The Killing Joke line 'If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice'.

Oh, you mean BB? Yeah, it actually does detail one essential part of what I said, namely Bruce's rejection of the LoS ideals. But I don't know, maybe we were watching different movies.

 

To give the character layers instead of leaving ya to make up a bunch of stuff ya never see or hear in the flick.

If ya read the Killing Joke then ya know that was Joker's reason for trying to break Gordon, too. Some bad crap happened to him, he doesn't remember exactly what it is, but he knows it was a bad day that made him go nuts. So he was gonna prove that's all ya need to go crazy by giving Gordon a bad day.

Same deal with Heath Joker. The scars were the thing that made him go crazy. That's the common thing in both of his scar stories mon ami. So the J-man tries pushing people to the limit to show how easy it is to break people who are good because everyone is corruptible to him. The Bat rubbed that in his face about being wrong about that when the ferry people didn't blown each other to hell.

BB didn't mention squat about Bane so yeah we were watching different flicks.