Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell - Part 2

[2kt09]

I'll take very dour if and only if it's not dumb.

 

[OutOfBoose]

How much humor did Heat have? Or The Matrix? Almost none. Just as "dour".

 

[terry78]

The matrix was funny because of neo's reactions to certain things at first.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Humor can compensate for ridiculously dumb or cliched plot. Transparent narrative. **** dialogues. But since GitS17 doesn't have even that, no wonder people are bored.

 

[kguillou]

Its not about humor, its about having a character that the audience could latch onto and I think inherently it is really hard to latch onto a synthetic android that is mostly stoic throughout the whole film. Say what you will about Keanu's acting in those Matrix movies but he acted as the audience's anchor in the crazy convoluted story. So, he worked as a protagonist. Audiences are not going to find much in Johanssen's Major even if that was pretty much how Major was in the anime.,

 

[OutOfBoose]

Its not about humor, its about having a character that the audience could latch onto and I think inherently it is really hard to latch onto a synthetic android that is mostly stoic throughout the whole film. Say what you will about Keanu's acting in those Matrix movies but he acted as the audience's anchor in the crazy convoluted story. So, he worked as a protagonist. Audiences are not going to find much in Johanssen's Major even if that was pretty much how Major was in the anime.,

Tell that to Terminator 2. lol

It's just **** writing.

 

[kguillou]

Terminator 2 also had John and Sara Conner though to add a human, emotional element to it and it enhanced Arnold's arc. Gits lacks that human element for general audiences which is my point.

 

[TWayneP]

Look who isn't understanding. White-washing is an issue. It's pretty obvious they cast a white actress because they wanted to maximize BO. You're going to deny that? And by making it a plot point they literally turn themselves into an absurd joke.

Oh boy. Yes you are right, whitewashing is absolutely an issue in America. But not with this film.

They cast an actress that would maximize box office, and who just so happens to represent the character perfectly. Not only in looks, but one of the best actors in the industry, that will turn in an awesome performance? Win win.

In the original film, the Major isn't technically an asian character. Her shell is caucasian (just like ScarJo), and her past is never revealed, just hypothesized & her name has nothing to do with it obviously. There is no debate to be had about that.

Now, with the new american adaptation, they decided to adapt and script an origin that respects the source, and it's Japanese heritage. They accomplished this tastefully, all the while addressing the flimsy "controversy" pushing a subtext that it's what’s on the inside that counts, or what we DO that defines us. Again, win win.

The only loss here is the people who are failing to understand this. I'm not going to change anyone's mind here, clearly, so believe what you want to believe, continue ranting about a movie you have not seen, or concept you misunderstand.

 

[OutOfBoose]

My point is cyborg nature of characters have nothing to do with people unable to latch on them. Robocop is a stoic cyborg too with a mechanical voice. SAC episode 2 (I think) features a spider-tank and the story behind it is full of emotion. It's quite heart-breaking.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Oh boy. Yes you are right, whitewashing is absolutely an issue in America. But not with this film.

You gotta be ****ing kidding me. Motoko, Batou, Kuze - every important character is white.

They cast an actress that would maximize box office, and who just so happens to represent the character perfectly. Not only in looks, but one of the best actors in the industry, that will turn in an awesome performance? Win win.

They cast white actors to maximize box office. End of story. They wanted a bunch of other white actresses before ScarJo.

In the original film, the Major isn't technically an asian character. Her shell is caucasian (just like ScarJo), and her past is never revealed, just hypothesized & her name has nothing to do with it obviously. There is no debate to be had about that.

Japanese animators and manga artists in vast majority of cases "prettify" their characters (especially female) with blonde hair, blue eyes, sharp noses and so on in a Caucasian way. Vast majority of characters in manga and anime looks Caucasian, has Japanese names and speaks Japanese. As for '95 and the original manga, Major's body is mass-produced, hence several instances of look-alikes. Her looking (or not) Caucasian doesn't play ANY significance in the narrative. She can be either. It doesn't go against the lore. But having a Japanese name pseudonym and having a Caucasian look in an Asian environment doesn't make any sense.

Now, with the new american adaptation, they decided to adapt and script an origin that respects the source, and it's Japanese heritage. They accomplished this tastefully, all the while addressing the flimsy "controversy" pushing a subtext that it's what’s on the inside that counts, or what we DO that defines us. Again, win win.

This is where things become hilarious. You can look like Scarlett Johansson, but it's what on the inside, that counts. GROANNN. It's anything but tasteful. If we talk about it more seriously, the only reason they introduced [BLACKOUT]the mumbo-jumbo with her being originally a Japanese girl is because they wanted to keep "Motoko Kusanagi"[/BLACKOUT]. Because they wanted to sell the name. Nevermind it's a pseudonym in the source. World building in the '17 film is absurd.

I don't have a problem with ScarJo being Major, but I have a problem with everything they constructed to needlessly justify it.

 

[TWayneP]

You gotta be ****ing kidding me. Motoko, Batou, Kuze - every important character is white.

If you've seen the movie you would know what you're talking about. 3 major characters are Japanese. Major and Kuze have white shells, obviously. That is apart of the story. Batou is Australian in the film & Section 9 is very diverse.

They cast white actors to maximize box office. End of story. They wanted a bunch of other white actresses before ScarJo.

Not by what the director & team have stated, as Scarjo was always the first choice because of what story they were telling. Maximizing box office is important, and why not go with the best possible choice to help odds? Again another non-issue.

Japanese animators and manga artists in vast majority of cases "prettify" their characters (especially female) with blonde hair, blue eyes, sharp noses and so on in a Caucasian way. Vast majority of characters in manga and anime looks Caucasian, has Japanese names and speaks Japanese. As for '95 and the original manga, Major's body is mass-produced, hence several instances of look-alikes. Her looking (or not) Caucasian doesn't play ANY significance in the narrative. She can be either. It doesn't go against the lore. But having a Japanese name pseudonym and having a Caucasian look in an Asian environment doesn't make any sense.

I know all about how characters are drawn and designed in Japan. That is beside the point here. The Major's shell in the 17 film isn't mass produced (yet) there were 98 failures with different designs and Scarjo's version was the first of it's kind, and successful. The production of her shell and what it means is a plot point. What are you even going on about? "But having a Japanese name pseudonym and having a Caucasian look in an Asian environment doesn't make any sense." - this is exactly the 95 film lol. So yeah? Anyway, in the 17 film everything is adapted the same, but the name actually matters, making it a more intimate story. Theres nothing wrong with that. In context that decision makes sense, but again, you haven't seen it, so you wouldn't know.

This is where things become hilarious. You can look like Scarlett Johansson, but it's what on the inside, that counts. GROANNN. It's anything but tasteful. If we talk about it more seriously, the only reason they introduced the mumbo-jumbo with her being originally a Japanese girl is because they wanted to keep "Motoko Kusanagi". Because they wanted to sell the name. Nevermind it's a pseudonym in the source. World building in the '17 film is absurd.
I don't have a problem with ScarJo being Major, but I have a problem with everything they constructed to needlessly justify it.

Sell the name? The name was never a selling point of the film. it was NEVER mentioned in the promotion. It's a significant name, and as it is adapted, it was decided that be the real name of her character. She has two different names in the film and that is a big plot point. Yes, it's what's inside that counts, because it's your damn soul, your BRAIN. It does not matter what you look like on the outside, even if you are beautiful, because it's is artificial beauty. It's your identity that matters. It's a meaningful concept that I guess you just disagree with or find hilarious and absurd? So... whatever. That's cool I guess.

 

[mikeboydus]

Yeah, there was maybe like two instances of humor and you know we like our blockbuster spectacle with the funny. It's just very dour, which is in line with the source material.

The manga and SAC are far from dour. The GA would have eaten up the Tachikomas and their antics.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's such a basic line of thinking.

"The synthetic body needs to look Japanese"

"The original anime Major had blue eyes cause [fill in elaborate excuse here]".

"Japan could never be diverse or post-racial even in a sci fi movie"

"They should've green lit this movie with an Asian C-List actress as the star"

There are valid criticisms for this movie but they have nothing to do with a synthetic body looking like a white person.

The irony is that the title is Ghost in the SHELL and people are obsessed with the shell, completely missing the point.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I agree that Scarlett should've had more personality.

Her mind was 100 percent human. Why is she acting like a robot?

 

[mikeboydus]

This example is hands down the best adaption of the source material.
[YT]eNYhLwFahMU[/YT]

This is from the PS1 game, which is based on the manga.

Had the film been more like this, it would have done far better. They could have kept some influences from the 95 film, but the manga elements would have provided a factor more appealing to general audiences.

 

[BlackFox]

I agree that Scarlett should've had more personality.

Her mind was 100 percent human. Why is she acting like a robot?

Her walk was flat out hilarious. She could run on walls and leap off buildings but couldnt walk into a room like a normal person, did her brain forget how to walk but know how to do the other stuff, very odd contradiction.

 

[OutOfBoose]

They adapted '95 film look because it's more visually iconic than the manga. It also allows smaller budget. Constructing action, that features fuchikomas would probably double it.

 

[mikeboydus]

They adapted '95 film look because it's more visually iconic than the manga. It also allows smaller budget. Constructing action, that features fuchikomas would probably double it.

Most of the iconic scenes are in the manga too, but I have no problem with them using the versions from the 95 film. Its actually one of the better things the new film was able to do.

My argument isn't so much about the fuchikomas, but the humor, interaction between members of Section 9, etc. If they had used something like the fuchikomas/tachikomas, I would have only introduced them early in the film in a dialogue role at Section 9's HQ, while only bringing them out to fight in the climax.

The biggest thing is humor and the human element. Section 9 in the manga and in SAC has this dysfunctional family atmosphere, while Togusa has always provided a strong human element that the audience can relate to. The film lacked in these areas.

 

[OutOfBoose]

My argument isn't so much about the fuchikomas, but the humor, interaction between members of Section 9, etc. If they had used something like the fuchikomas/tachikomas, I would have only introduced them early in the film in a dialogue role at Section 9's HQ, while only bringing them out to fight in the climax.

The biggest thing is humor and the human element. Section 9 in the manga and in SAC has this dysfunctional family atmosphere, while Togusa has always provided a strong human element that the audience can relate to. The film lacked in these areas.

More lively character dynamic wouldn't hurt. I think SAC was a decent middle-ground between '95 and the manga tone-wise. Not as goofy as Shiro Masamune and not as tranquilized as Mamoru Oshii. Again, they just probably decided that '95 look and feel will allow them to keep the budget at bay. Because they clearly picked some stuff from SAC and Innocence.

 

[OutOfBoose]

If you've seen the movie you would know what you're talking about. 3 major characters are Japanese. Major and Kuze have white shells, obviously. That is apart of the story. Batou is Australian in the film & Section 9 is very diverse.

Not by what the director & team have stated, as Scarjo was always the first choice because of what story they were telling. Maximizing box office is important, and why not go with the best possible choice to help odds? Again another non-issue.

I know all about how characters are drawn and designed in Japan. That is beside the point here. The Major's shell in the 17 film isn't mass produced (yet) there were 98 failures with different designs and Scarjo's version was the first of it's kind, and successful. The production of her shell and what it means is a plot point. What are you even going on about? "But having a Japanese name pseudonym and having a Caucasian look in an Asian environment doesn't make any sense." - this is exactly the 95 film lol. So yeah? Anyway, in the 17 film everything is adapted the same, but the name actually matters, making it a more intimate story. Theres nothing wrong with that. In context that decision makes sense, but again, you haven't seen it, so you wouldn't know.

Sell the name? The name was never a selling point of the film. it was NEVER mentioned in the promotion. It's a significant name, and as it is adapted, it was decided that be the real name of her character. She has two different names in the film and that is a big plot point. Yes, it's what's inside that counts, because it's your damn soul, your BRAIN. It does not matter what you look like on the outside, even if you are beautiful, because it's is artificial beauty. It's your identity that matters. It's a meaningful concept that I guess you just disagree with or find hilarious and absurd? So... whatever. That's cool I guess.

Without going back and forth pointlessly, I'll sum it up like this. They went out of their way to needlessly justify the race flip with the plot. Regardless if it's a deep commentary on the western culture white-washing Asian properties, or deep exploration of nature of ghost in a machine. It is just tone deaf. You/they can spin it whatever they like, [BLACKOUT]it still looks like they killed an Asian girl and transformed her into a white woman[/BLACKOUT]. Maybe it's cool on paper, maybe it would work if it was done by more clever people, but it reminds me of BvS and the infamous "Martha".

 

[harlequinade]

Her walk was flat out hilarious. She could run on walls and leap off buildings but couldnt walk into a room like a normal person, did her brain forget how to walk but know how to do the other stuff, very odd contradiction.

I thought she was doing 'tough guy, soldier' kind of walk....well, she was doing something there

 

[Legion]

In the original film, the Major isn't technically an asian character. Her shell is caucasian (just like ScarJo), and her past is never revealed, just hypothesized & her name has nothing to do with it obviously.

Her shell is not caucasian in the '95 anime.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I hear this isn't doing too well. Hopefully the asshats at WB will take note and cancel Akira.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

This example is hands down the best adaption of the source material.
[YT]eNYhLwFahMU[/YT]

This is from the PS1 game, which is based on the manga.

Had the film been more like this, it would have done far better. They could have kept some influences from the 95 film, but the manga elements would have provided a factor more appealing to general audiences.

Yes!

This is the Ghost in the Shell I fell in love with (the original manga).

 

[harlequinade]

Damn, just found out Mansell's score doesn't have a release date set? How odd! I really wanted to get it