DTL Season 5-Week 13 (Set 2)

Discussion in 'RPG Archives' started by DTL Commish, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. DTL Commish DTL Commisioner

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    The rules:
    This is one of four threads containing matches.
    Due to the holiday, these threads will be in use for 9 days. Days 1-4 (Feb 23 - Feb 26) are strictly setup time for owners to plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help.

    On Day 5 (Feb 27) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count. Look over the matchups and read the strategies, and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match. (Note: The length of a writeup the discretion of the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

    To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember to vote for all matches or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 9th day (Mar 2) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

    The battleground for this week is: The eXiles Panoptichron

    Deadpool's Harem
    Black Alice DU - ability to temporarily borrow the magical powers of other mystical heroes and villains
    Thordis MU - superhuman strength (Class 75), stamina, vitality and resistance to harm. With Mjolnir, she can channel lightning, fly through the air, absorb energy, open dimensional portals
    Byakko DM - expert ninja, able to turn herself and other people intangible, disrupts electronic devices and has limited control over gravity
    Deadpool MR - superhuman healing factor, martial artist, paraphenelia: teleporter, image inducer
    Duke of Oil DR - Powerful cyborg limbs, maleable body (think "Metal Reed Richards") able to interface and control technology

    VS.

    The Authorititans
    Silver Surfer (MU)--superstrength, superspeed, durability, energy manipulation, flight, cosmic awareness
    Superman-Prime (DU)--superstrength, durability, superspeed, supersenses, heat vision, cold breath, flight
    Aztek (DM) -- energy manip, superstrength, superspeed, supersenses, intangibility, flight
    Anarky (DR) -- tech supergenius, expert at every martial arts fighting style
    Midnighter (Post-Worldstorm) (DR) -- martial arts supergenius, predicts outcomes of battles

    _______________________________

    The Deadly Dozen
    Morg (Well of Life) (MU) -- superstrength/speed/durability, energy blasts, cosmically-powered axe, wields the Power Cosmic
    Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) -- superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
    Doom 2099 (MM) - super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
    Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) -- immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future
    Deadman (DR) -- invisible, intangible ghost who possesses others

    VS.

    X*
    Thor (Power Gem) (MU)
    Josef Huber (MU)
    The Super Skrull (MM)
    Mister X (MR)
    Coronary (MR)
     
  2. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    The write-up... where is? where is it?

    Could it be... here?
     
  3. Aristotle Registered

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    The match everyone's been waiting for. If you want to see well-oiled DTL machines, watch XFanTim's match, or Ahura/Khell's.

    If you want a clown car and a drunk, watch this one.
     
  4. XFanTim Two-Time DTL Champion

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    Deadly Dozen
    Morg (Well of Life) (MU) -- superstrength/speed/durability, energy blasts, cosmically-powered axe, wields the Power Cosmic
    Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) -- superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
    Doom 2099 (MM) - Super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
    Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) -- immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future
    Deadman (DR) -- invisible, intangible ghost who possesses others

    vs.

    X
    Thor (Power Gem) (MU)
    Josef Huber (MU)
    The Super Skrull (MM)
    Mister X (MR)
    Coronary (MR)

    The Battle

    Morg vs. Thor
    Morg and Thor fight their way into one of the many dimensions accessible from the Panoptichron. (It has some you can get to just by walking through doors, instead of having to work the computers.) This one is some sort of desert world, with plenty of room for the two of them to cut loose. I see this as a pretty even match. This is the amped up version of Morg who was able to take on multiple Heralds at once -- normally he'd be more powerful than Thor, but the Power Gem levels the playing field. The many powers of Mjolnir would give Thor a versatility advantage, but this is Thor from the "Blood and Thunder" crossover when he was suffering pseudo-Warrior's Madness. So he's not likely to get creative with his powers. I see this fight involving a whole lot of axe-hacking, hammer-smashing, energy blasting and all around pummelling. But it can probably last quite a while before anyone wins. Meanwhile...

    Magus vs. Josef Huber
    Thanks to his teleportation, Magus was able to steer clear of Thor and go after Josef Huber. Huber will be hard pressed to deal with Magus. He can copy the durability of someone like Colossus, but Magus has gone toe-to-toe with Thanos, and Thanos (even pre-resurrection Thanos) makes Colossus look like a little girl. Huber can copy the energy projection of someone like Havok, but again, we're hardly talking Thanos-level energy blasts here -- nothing Magus can't handle. Meanwhile, Magus will be raining down super-strong blows and energy blasts that will tax Huber's durability to the limit. Maybe he'll try to copy the powers of an energy-absorber -- Bishop, Sebastian Shaw, even Guido Carosella (if we're talking kinetic energy) come to mind, but all of them have been overloaded before. My medium-level '80s-era Magneto has overloaded Shaw, for instance, so Magus would do so easily. Even copying Shadowcat's intangibility doesn't necessarily shield him from all forms of energy attacks -- Magneto has been able to affect her in intangible form before. And if all else fails, Magus can fall back on the Soul Gem's spirit based attacks, for which intangibility is no defense.

    In short, there just aren't a lot of mutant powers that are high-level enough to compete with a top-notch uber like Magus. Inevitably, Huber will turn to the best powers in his arsenal, namely uber-level telepathic abilities. But what he doesn't realize is that Magus (like all versions of Adam Warlock) has a ridiculous degree of telepathic immunity. My favorite example is when Moondragon with the Mind Gem tried to invade Adam's mind, and he forcibly tossed her out even though he was in a coma at the time. So Huber tries telepathy and finds it does squat-all against the Magus, and that's all the opening Magus needs to blast him to bits.

    Magus and Morg vs. Thor
    It's not hard for Magus to find whatever door Morg and Thor went through just by following the trail of destruction. So he joins them on the desert world. Thor sees him and throws his hammer, but Magus opens a portal in front of him that sends the hammer as far away as possible. Of course, Mjolnir immediately races back towards its owner, but this buys Magus enough time to charge the now unarmed Thor. Thor throws a punch that passes through his foe as Magus goes intangible, then grabbing the Power Gem on Thor's forehead and phasing it as well. (Clearly Magus can phase an Infinity Gem is he's in contact with it, since he's phased through things while wearing the Soul Gem.)

    Enraged to have the gem stolen from him, Thor yells out something with a lot of thees and thous . . . and then yells again as Morg's axe slams into his back. Morg channels the power cosmic through the axe and into Thor's body, and Magus joins in with a mighty energy blast of his own. Bereft of Mjolnir and the Power Gem, Thor has no way to handle this kind of energy. The thunder god collapses to the sand, with smoke rising from his Asgardian flesh.

    Deadman vs. Mr. X and Coronary
    Meanwhile, back in the Panoptichron, Deadman has taken possession of Mister X and used him to beat Coronary into unconsciousness. Coronary could probably have taken Mister X down, but he wouldn't have known his teammate had been turned against him until he was getting hit, and he wouldn't last long enough to do anything about it, not against someone fast and strong enough to take down Wolverine in hand-to-hand combat. (Of course, Logan won the rematch because he's "the best there is" and all that... too bad for Coronary he's not even like the third or fourth best there is.)

    Doom 2099 vs. Super-Skrull
    Doom 2099 and Super-Skrull inevitably face each other, and just as inevitably Doom wins. Doom has tons of experience going up against the powers of the Fantastic Four, and considering how much better his 2099 armor is (and the fact that Super-Skrull hardly ever uses his powers as well as the originals) Doom's brilliant brain can probably think of a billion ways to beat him. He numbers them, programs his armor to generate a random number between 1 and a billion, and then proceeds to kick ass in the manner so specified.

    Vandal Savage vs. nobody
    Savage has nothing better to do, so he spends the fight hacking into the Panoptichron computers and downloading data on various heroes and villains from the enumerable realities of the Marvel Multiverse. If Heather Hudson was able to crack this computer system, a guy from hundreds of centuries in the future should find it child's play. He creates a big file on everyone my team might possibly face in the playoffs (adding his own data he's accumulated over the centuries about the DC universe), and gives a copy of the file to each member of my team. Now we're prepared for anyone. ;)

    OK, so that last bit is probably too cheap to be allowed. But regardless, The Deadly Dozen win.
     
  5. Aristotle Registered

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    Prep Time (The Authorititans)
    "Oh man."
    "This is...this is beautiful..."
    "Where is this place?"
    "...I...I..."
    "I've seen better."

    Midnighter's snark tears the other four away from their reverie. They all give him a bit of a grimace, but he's right. It's time to get to work.

    Anarky begins his usual strategy talk. Already, his mind is working in overdrive, devising ways of taking out the enemy. But Norrin Radd's mind is elsewhere. He can see into the soul of these people. They are troubled men. The one called Aztek is filled with self-doubt and worry. The one called Anarky seems willing to sacrifice almost anything for what he would deem a greater good. The one called Midnighter...that is a dark, dark angel. And this Superman...he is a liar. He is a liar and a murderer and a boaster and a complainer and he is vicious and cruel and brutal.

    Superman-Prime feels the eyes of the Surfer on him and turns. Their gazes meet, and Superman knows what the Surfer knows. He is ashamed, but his eyes plead with the Surfer to leave him this chance. I have failed my legacy and my name and my symbol, he knows, but here, with these men, I can be who I should be.

    The Surfer nods reluctantly, and returns his attention to the leader of the team.

    Later, as the team prepares for combat. The Surfer stares down a great corridor in Panoptichron. He knows what place he is in. He knows what he could do, given the chance. Behind him, he hears Anarky and Midnighter discussing their battles.

    "I'll have to go low-tech, obviously, but there's nothing he can use here, as far as I can tell. Your guy has a healing factor, so you'll need to take that into account..."

    Their voices drift off into his subconscious as Superman appears next to him.

    "I could go back to my world, you know," muses the Surfer. "Back to before it was destroyed, before I failed. I could do something to stop him."

    He looks at his comrade-in-arms. "Another chance to get it right, Superman," he sighs. "Another chance to fix my mistakes. What I wouldn't give to have that chance."

    They stand in silence.

    "But there are no such chances in our futures, it appears. We are not destined to change our destinies, only to live them out, as in some terrible performance, in which none of us has read the script, and no one can know the ending."

    Superman is stone-faced.

    "We should get ready to fight," he says. "The other team certainly is."
     
  6. Aristotle Registered

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    Prep Time (Deadpool's Harem)
    "What the sprock are we gonna do now?" sulks Byakko. It has just been discovered that Black Alice's power comes with a little fine print that's going to make this battle decidedly difficult for Deadpool's Harem.

    It seems that for Black Alice to choose a target for her power-stealing abilities, she must be able to see that target. Otherwise, it's completely random. What's more, since Panoptichron is outside time and space, she can't reach out and randomly take on a powerset that way either. She has no possible targets except for Thordis, and taking the powers of Thordis would leave Thordis in the cold.

    "Deadpool, this is your team! Think of something!" Thordis bellows. Deadpool, however, has weightier concerns on his mind. My book survived low sales and being the red-headed stepchild of a company that seems to live for nothing but its bottom line, but it couldn't survive a poorly conceived X-over that probably didn't really change anything at all. What a load of horse-hockey.

    "We are without a full team, Deadpool!" Thordis continues. "You need to help us figure out what to do!" I wish I'd kept that Venom symbiont in me, Deadpool muses. Bob from Hydra could have gotten one too. And Weasel. And Nate. And then we could've been one big happy Venom team. TEAM VENOM! Maybe Nicieza can convince Quesada to publish a TEAM VENOM book.

    "You are useless," Thordis snarls, and stalks away. This guy writing me isn't as good as Nicieza, ponders Deadpool.
     
  7. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    Haha, it amuses me that you'd think my team would ask Deadpool of all people for ideas. :)

    Oh and Alice doesn't need to see her magical hero of choice. She just needs to concentrate. In the Helmet of Fate series she just thought of Giganta and poof, she had Giganta's powers.
     
  8. Aristotle Registered

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    All part of the joke. I felt that it would be wrong to write Deadpool's team without a joke.

    In Birds of Prey, Oracle is struggling to teach her how to not need line-of-sight, and she's almost reached it. It appears that Helmet of Fate was a mistake, and should be chalked up to lack of editorial oversight. However, it's of no consequence--outside time and space, Alice can't call on anything.
     
  9. Aristotle Registered

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    Prep Time (final notes)
    Anarky's going to know about Black Alice's weakness, and he's going to know all about the Duke of Oil, thanks to his mastery of basically all information on DCU Earth. He's hacked the JLA computers before. This is a guy who probably knew as much, or close to as much, as Max Lord's Checkmate did before the Infinite Crisis. He will instruct his team accordingly.

    Meanwhile, Deadpool's Harem will be frantically looking for a way to manipulate the tech of Panoptichron so that Alice can be of use, but they will fail. The Duke's technopathy is NOT going to be good enough to hack this tech. Their strategy is going to be to protect Black Alice for as long as possible, because she's now their EXTREMELY weak link--essentially, powerless. Byakko will go intangible and make Deadpool, Duke, and Alice intangible with her. They will stay close to Thordis so that if Thordis goes down, Alice can take up her powers immediately.
     
  10. Aristotle Registered

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    Battle Time
    Panoptichron is a massive battlefield, and without access to the technology within, it's going to be very difficult for either team to locate their opponents, and to actually catch up to them. Here, the Authorititans get a quick advantage. Silver Surfer's Cosmic Awareness and Anarky's heads-up computer display will show them exactly where their opponents are. Deadpool's Harem, on the other hand, will have to rely on Thordis' teleportation to find their opponents, while having Byakko keep the other team members, especially Black Alice, intangible and protected until the right moment.

    Anarky examines the data coming from his computer, and starts issuing orders.

    "Surfer, Superman, attack Thordis immediately. Surfer, you should be able to pick up her location easily, and lead Superman to her. She can't escape you, because you're both massively faster than she is. Take her out as quickly as possible, because she's dangerous."

    "Aztek, Byakko's going to go intangible and keep the Duke, Deadpool, and Alice intangible with her so she can protect them. Thordis is teleporting, but she's keeping her team with her so that IF she falls, Alice can immediately know about it and steal her powers. Our job will be to separate them."

    Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime are upon Thordis instantaneously, and her teleporting is put to an end. Behind them, Aztek arrives, intangible, and locates the intangible Byakko, Duke, and Alice. With the ubers tangled in combat, and Aztek pretending to also be fighting, Anarky steps out near Byakko and the regs as bait. Hoping to gain a quick advantage in a fight that's starting to look very bad, Byakko goes solid--and Aztek blasts her with every bit of force he can muster, sending her flying, and leaving her teammates fully tangible.

    With Thordis fully occupied by the Surfer and Superman, Anarky attacks the Duke of Oil. Midnighter engages Deadpool. Aztek speeds off in the direction he knocked Byakko to finish off the fight. Black Alice hides in a corner, scared out of her wits. [At this point, I would like to say that it is truly a pleasure to see Black Alice uncomfortable, even if it's just fanfiction. I don't like goths, and I don't like Black Alice, and so I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank LadyVader for giving me this chance.]

    Anarky vs. Duke of Oil
    In a lot of battlefields, the Duke of Oil would have a big advantage in this fight, but in Panoptichron, the technology is just too advanced for his technopathy. Here, he's just a stretchy metal guy. Anarky switches off his onboard computer tech and goes in just as a human being with a couple gadgets. After a brief spar between the two, Anarky catches the Duke off-guard with a deft feint and a kick to the cranium, and follows it up by tossing a localized EMP dart. It strikes home and the Duke of Oil drops. Frantically, Anarky scans his onboard computer to find a location for Black Alice.

    Midnighter vs. Deadpool
    The two enhanced supersoldiers engage each other in combat wordlessly. It is a well-matched battle, but, as always in such an evenly matched battle with Midnighter, it will be decided by his prediction ability. He can project any move that Deadpool will make, and compensate for it. Eventually, he manages to take the Merc's swords, and with even greater effort, he separates Deadpool's head from Deadpool's body. And for good measure, he cuts off the limbs, too. He places each piece about twenty feet from each other, and runs around stomping on them and kicking them every time they try to ooze toward each other. It is, one imagines, the most cathartic experience that Midnighter has ever experienced.
     
  11. Aristotle Registered

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    Aztek vs. Byakko
    If Byakko could get close to Aztek, she'd quickly be able to gain the advantage on him, but he's fast enough that he can perpetually stay well enough away from her that he can avoid her density-manipulation powers, but close enough that he can take energy-blast potshots at her. Even if she could reach him to change his density, his intangibility would allow him to negate the effect. He can phase out long enough to shed the effects, phase back in, and keep blasting. Byakko goes down after simply being worn down.

    Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime vs. Thordis
    Thordis against either one of these two would be a long, drawn-out, difficult match. But Thordis against both of them? It's really no contest. She drags it out as long as she can, even teleporting away a couple times, but she can't stay away from Alice for too long, because Alice needs to know when she loses so she can take her powerset, and Alice needs to be protected.

    Thordis can take a pretty big beating, but I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that there isn't a legal uber in this game that could stand up to the combined onslaught of Superman-Prime and Silver Surfer for very long. Thordis drops...

    Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime vs. Thordis
    ...and just before Anarky reaches her, Black Alice is back in the game. She swats him aside and turns her attention to the two heavy hitters for the Authorititans. It's not going to be QUITE as tough of a fight for her, since her two opponents have taken a few hits themselves, but she's inexperienced with her newly acquired powers, never having wielded anything quite like them before, and however many hits they took, her opponents are still the Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime, two of the baddest assest ubers in the game. Alice gives a valiant fight, but she doesn't ever really have a chance.

    Authorititans, 5-0.
     
  12. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    - Maybe Duke Of Oil's technopathy isn't strong enough to control the entire system, but he can act localized. Find one cluster of teleporters and activate them. Find one camera and activate it to show him his oponents. He doesn't even need to conect to it. The machines just do what he says.

    - "Hoping to gain a quick advantage in a fight that's starting to look very bad, Byakko goes solid" What could she possibly solve by going solid? She don't have no kryptonite laced swords! She isn't super strong/ IF she sees Thordis in trouble she can use her gravity powers for example or she can ghost some of Superman's flesh to the surrondings.

    - I'm confused to how Anarky would get the slip on a guy who fought Connor Hawke, Oliver Queen and Mia Derden to a stalemate. Yeah he's an expert martial artist but he's just one guy.

    - Midnighter vs Deadpool: What stops Deadpool from dropping a grenade and teleporting away if Midnighter gets a chance to steal his swords? By the way, dismembering my Wade? Oh boooy. It's on now!

    - Aztek vs Byakko: Again, gravity powers. :D I don't care how fast Aztek is, he's not going to get a slip on my girl.

    - I got no problem with the uber battles because you assume that Black Alice has nobody to channel in the Panoptichron except for Thordis. I will soon show you that is not the case. :)
     
  13. Aristotle Registered

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    What possible precedent for this can you claim? What has he ever controlled that was on a level anywhere near Panoptichron?

    Anarky supplies the bait, as noted in the writeup. If she could nail him quick, it would certainly be advantageous, and with Aztek apparently busy in the uber fight, she thinks she can get away with going solid just for a moment.

    All Anarky needs is a chance to toss a dart.

    That doesn't seem to be Deadpool's way of fighting. He doesn't pussyfoot around. He fights a fight. As for dismembering him, that's really the only way to kill the guy. It's not even that easy to knock him out.

    There's no support for that. If she can never get close enough to him because he can dart out of range, she has no useful attack against him. And if she does get him, he can just go ghost.

    All battlefields are unpopulated, LV. There's no one here but us teams.
     
  14. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    :bow: :grin:
     
  15. Harlekin Business

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    As I recall, we are allowed to point out inaccuracies. As such, about Black Alice:
    So she's not entirely powerless, and there's a lot of vagueness surrounding her abilities.
     
  16. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    Write-up posted... :up:
     
  17. Aristotle Registered

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    When she channels Dr. Strange sometime, then I'll believe she doesn't have to be in the same reality as her target.
     
  18. Harlekin Business

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    I was referring to the line of sight argument.
     
  19. XFanTim Two-Time DTL Champion

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    I think wikipedia is out of date on that point. Originally maybe she could only choose who she channeled if they were in her line of sight, but she has since developed the ability to channel whoever she wants.

    I agree with Ari that she can't copy someone who is in another universe. But LV doesn't actually try to do that in her writeup (now posted above), so it's a moot point.
     
  20. Aristotle Registered

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    Objections to LadyVader's writeup:

    - Aztek's equipment isn't magical, it's powered by 4th-dimensional energy. Alice has nothing to channel.
    - In the uber battle, Thordis doesn't stand a chance. Superman-Prime is either highly resistant to magic, or immune, whether it comes from Mjolnir or anywhere else. SMP + Silver Surfer vs. Thordis is no contest.
    - BYAKKO? Beats SUPERMAN? No. Superman will know she's coming from a mile away and ice her with heat vision. If the fight even lasts long enough for Byakko to get there.'
    - And now Black Alice/Aztek is fast enough to get the best of Superman? Again, no.
    - And NOW Byakko trumps the Power ****ing Cosmic?

    I think the biggest problem is Black Alice channeling Aztek's helmet. It's not magic. Just because there are gods involved with Aztek's backstory, that doesn't mean it's magical. In fact, there is HEAVY technological influence on Aztek, and his armor is technological in nature. She just can't channel it, which leaves her lowers high and dry.

    The ubers: with Black Alice out of the equation, Thordis drops immediately. That means Byakko is the OTHER sticking point. And I just don't buy that Byakko can get the drop on Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime. Hell, if they wanted, Surfer could blast Byakko away, and the two could just rush Thordis and manhandle her somewhere else that Byakko couldn't get to very quickly, and then deal with her later.

    Bottom line, the whole thing depends on two very flimsy precepts: Black Alice channeling an artifact that isn't mystical so much as fourth-dimensional, and Byakko getting the drop on two of the fastest and deadliest ubers in the game.
     
  21. XFanTim Two-Time DTL Champion

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    After that will he melt her with his arctic breath?:woot:
     
  22. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    :ss: :wow:
     
  23. Aristotle Registered

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    I never understood the helmet to be magical in any way. Occult engineering does NOT necessarily imply magic so much as generic supernatural. To me, that always meant technology. I've never seen a bio or a description that described it as magical. Not in his comics, not anywhere else that I can recall.

    I'm sure Thordis can put up a fine fight, but do you really want to be suggesting that your character can take on two of the biggest bricks in the game and beat them handily? That sounds tuber to me. I think there's a reason Thordis is uber, and not tuber, and I think it's because Thordis isn't that powerful.

    Byakko never snuck up on this Superman, and regardless, when I was brought into the League, it was explained to me that the DTL was a place to correct the kinds of ridiculous overwriting done in comics (The Hulk vs. Superman shouldn't have been written that way!) and competing for the best "fan-approved" outcomes of battles. Byakko sneaking up on Superman seems like on of those story-driven injustices. Superman can hear a silenced sniper shot from halfway around the world, or halfway across the galaxy in some outlandish stories, and he can't hear Byakko?

    And why is the helmet so hard for Superman to deal with? He can see through anything but lead, he can look right through the thing.

    As for Black Alice channeling any magical artifact (not admitting that Aztek's helmet is one): didn't she channel the powers of Wonder Woman, and just get the lasso powers along with the rest? That means she would have to channel Aztek himself to get the power of his helmet, and since he himself is not a magical being, she can't do that. Adding to that the fact that the helmet is not magical in nature, there's clearly no way Alice can make that move.
     
  24. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    Quetzalcoatl Battle-Suit & Helmet: Aztek's battle-suit and helmet are masterpieces of occult engineering. The ancient battle helmet provides the focus for the four dimensional power source. This power source can only be recharged via special rituals.

    Powered by fourth dimensional energies, the Aztek war suit is a conglomeration of magic and technology giving its bearer an array of powers such as super strength, super speed, super hearing, telescopic vision, x-ray vision, infrared vision, invisibility and flight.

    A young man named Uno was raised by the Q Society, a secret organization to be the champion of the Aztec god Quetzalcoatl to battle their enemy, the Aztec god Tezcatlipoca. He was at the peak of human abilities both physically and mentally. He was given a magical suit of armor that bestows super strength, super speed, super hearing, telescopic vision, x-ray vision, infrared vision, invisibility and flight upon the wearer. His base of operations was the city of Vanity, a strange town that had bizarre architecture, and the highest suicide rate in the DC Universe version of the United States.

    Cambridge definition of occult
    relating to magical powers and activities, such as those of witchcraft and astrology:
    She claims to have occult powers, given to her by some mysterious spirit.

    Black Alice can pretty much channel anything with the word magic (or occult ;) ) in it. She channelled the magical golden lasso of Wonder Woman and Alan Scott's power ring.
     
  25. LadyVader Smile like you mean it.

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    Did you miss the part where I said she eventually succumbs to Silver Surfer's powers? She has to keep them busy for at least half an hour, because that's how long Black Alice can hold on to the helmet, and given her wide array of powers, I think Thordis can do that.

    Byakko's appearance in that issue was nothing like Amazo's appearance in that Batman book where Bats disabled him by putting batarangs in his years :) It was one of the first appearances of the character, therefore it was supposed to show us what she can do, not exaggerate. When she is in ghost form, that's exactly what she is, a ghost.

    Anyway, this is how I saw that particular battle go down.

    Byakko and Alice are in ghost form in the ground, Byakko raises her head above the surface, flicks on her gravity powers and drags Superman Prime down. Black Alice then puts on his head the helmet which SCREWS with his head because that's what it's supposed to do to anybody who is not TRAINED to wear it. It contains the memories of all the past warriors who wore it which are now inside his head. Sight has nothing to do with it.
     

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