DTL Season 5-Week 13 (Set 2)

[DTL Commish]

The rules:
This is one of four threads containing matches.
Due to the holiday, these threads will be in use for 9 days. Days 1-4 (Feb 23 - Feb 26) are strictly setup time for owners to plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help.

On Day 5 (Feb 27) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count. Look over the matchups and read the strategies, and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match. (Note: The length of a writeup the discretion of the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember to vote for all matches or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 9th day (Mar 2) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

The battleground for this week is: The eXiles Panoptichron

Deadpool's Harem
Black Alice DU - ability to temporarily borrow the magical powers of other mystical heroes and villains
Thordis MU - superhuman strength (Class 75), stamina, vitality and resistance to harm. With Mjolnir, she can channel lightning, fly through the air, absorb energy, open dimensional portals
Byakko DM - expert ninja, able to turn herself and other people intangible, disrupts electronic devices and has limited control over gravity
Deadpool MR - superhuman healing factor, martial artist, paraphenelia: teleporter, image inducer
Duke of Oil DR - Powerful cyborg limbs, maleable body (think "Metal Reed Richards") able to interface and control technology

VS.

The Authorititans
Silver Surfer (MU)--superstrength, superspeed, durability, energy manipulation, flight, cosmic awareness
Superman-Prime (DU)--superstrength, durability, superspeed, supersenses, heat vision, cold breath, flight
Aztek (DM) -- energy manip, superstrength, superspeed, supersenses, intangibility, flight
Anarky (DR) -- tech supergenius, expert at every martial arts fighting style
Midnighter (Post-Worldstorm) (DR) -- martial arts supergenius, predicts outcomes of battles

_______________________________

The Deadly Dozen
Morg (Well of Life) (MU) -- superstrength/speed/durability, energy blasts, cosmically-powered axe, wields the Power Cosmic
Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) -- superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
Doom 2099 (MM) - super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) -- immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future
Deadman (DR) -- invisible, intangible ghost who possesses others

VS.

X*
Thor (Power Gem) (MU)
Josef Huber (MU)
The Super Skrull (MM)
Mister X (MR)
Coronary (MR)

 

[LadyVader]

The write-up... where is? where is it?

Could it be... here?

 

[Aristotle]

The match everyone's been waiting for. If you want to see well-oiled DTL machines, watch XFanTim's match, or Ahura/Khell's.

If you want a clown car and a drunk, watch this one.

 

[XFanTim]

Deadly Dozen
Morg (Well of Life) (MU) -- superstrength/speed/durability, energy blasts, cosmically-powered axe, wields the Power Cosmic
Magus (Adam Warlock) (MU) -- superstrength/durability, energy projection, teleportation, phasing, can steal souls and manipulate spiritual energy via the Soul Gem
Doom 2099 (MM) - Super-durability/strength/stamina/reflexes, technopathy, energy blasts, force fields, invisibility, phasing, flight
Vandal Savage (1 Million) (DR) -- immortal, enhanced physical stats, genius intelligence, various weapons and technology from the far future
Deadman (DR) -- invisible, intangible ghost who possesses others

vs.

X
Thor (Power Gem) (MU)
Josef Huber (MU)
The Super Skrull (MM)
Mister X (MR)
Coronary (MR)

The Battle

Morg vs. Thor
Morg and Thor fight their way into one of the many dimensions accessible from the Panoptichron. (It has some you can get to just by walking through doors, instead of having to work the computers.) This one is some sort of desert world, with plenty of room for the two of them to cut loose. I see this as a pretty even match. This is the amped up version of Morg who was able to take on multiple Heralds at once -- normally he'd be more powerful than Thor, but the Power Gem levels the playing field. The many powers of Mjolnir would give Thor a versatility advantage, but this is Thor from the "Blood and Thunder" crossover when he was suffering pseudo-Warrior's Madness. So he's not likely to get creative with his powers. I see this fight involving a whole lot of axe-hacking, hammer-smashing, energy blasting and all around pummelling. But it can probably last quite a while before anyone wins. Meanwhile...

Magus vs. Josef Huber
Thanks to his teleportation, Magus was able to steer clear of Thor and go after Josef Huber. Huber will be hard pressed to deal with Magus. He can copy the durability of someone like Colossus, but Magus has gone toe-to-toe with Thanos, and Thanos (even pre-resurrection Thanos) makes Colossus look like a little girl. Huber can copy the energy projection of someone like Havok, but again, we're hardly talking Thanos-level energy blasts here -- nothing Magus can't handle. Meanwhile, Magus will be raining down super-strong blows and energy blasts that will tax Huber's durability to the limit. Maybe he'll try to copy the powers of an energy-absorber -- Bishop, Sebastian Shaw, even Guido Carosella (if we're talking kinetic energy) come to mind, but all of them have been overloaded before. My medium-level '80s-era Magneto has overloaded Shaw, for instance, so Magus would do so easily. Even copying Shadowcat's intangibility doesn't necessarily shield him from all forms of energy attacks -- Magneto has been able to affect her in intangible form before. And if all else fails, Magus can fall back on the Soul Gem's spirit based attacks, for which intangibility is no defense.

In short, there just aren't a lot of mutant powers that are high-level enough to compete with a top-notch uber like Magus. Inevitably, Huber will turn to the best powers in his arsenal, namely uber-level telepathic abilities. But what he doesn't realize is that Magus (like all versions of Adam Warlock) has a ridiculous degree of telepathic immunity. My favorite example is when Moondragon with the Mind Gem tried to invade Adam's mind, and he forcibly tossed her out even though he was in a coma at the time. So Huber tries telepathy and finds it does squat-all against the Magus, and that's all the opening Magus needs to blast him to bits.

Magus and Morg vs. Thor
It's not hard for Magus to find whatever door Morg and Thor went through just by following the trail of destruction. So he joins them on the desert world. Thor sees him and throws his hammer, but Magus opens a portal in front of him that sends the hammer as far away as possible. Of course, Mjolnir immediately races back towards its owner, but this buys Magus enough time to charge the now unarmed Thor. Thor throws a punch that passes through his foe as Magus goes intangible, then grabbing the Power Gem on Thor's forehead and phasing it as well. (Clearly Magus can phase an Infinity Gem is he's in contact with it, since he's phased through things while wearing the Soul Gem.)

Enraged to have the gem stolen from him, Thor yells out something with a lot of thees and thous . . . and then yells again as Morg's axe slams into his back. Morg channels the power cosmic through the axe and into Thor's body, and Magus joins in with a mighty energy blast of his own. Bereft of Mjolnir and the Power Gem, Thor has no way to handle this kind of energy. The thunder god collapses to the sand, with smoke rising from his Asgardian flesh.

Deadman vs. Mr. X and Coronary
Meanwhile, back in the Panoptichron, Deadman has taken possession of Mister X and used him to beat Coronary into unconsciousness. Coronary could probably have taken Mister X down, but he wouldn't have known his teammate had been turned against him until he was getting hit, and he wouldn't last long enough to do anything about it, not against someone fast and strong enough to take down Wolverine in hand-to-hand combat. (Of course, Logan won the rematch because he's "the best there is" and all that... too bad for Coronary he's not even like the third or fourth best there is.)

Doom 2099 vs. Super-Skrull
Doom 2099 and Super-Skrull inevitably face each other, and just as inevitably Doom wins. Doom has tons of experience going up against the powers of the Fantastic Four, and considering how much better his 2099 armor is (and the fact that Super-Skrull hardly ever uses his powers as well as the originals) Doom's brilliant brain can probably think of a billion ways to beat him. He numbers them, programs his armor to generate a random number between 1 and a billion, and then proceeds to kick ass in the manner so specified.

Vandal Savage vs. nobody
Savage has nothing better to do, so he spends the fight hacking into the Panoptichron computers and downloading data on various heroes and villains from the enumerable realities of the Marvel Multiverse. If Heather Hudson was able to crack this computer system, a guy from hundreds of centuries in the future should find it child's play. He creates a big file on everyone my team might possibly face in the playoffs (adding his own data he's accumulated over the centuries about the DC universe), and gives a copy of the file to each member of my team. Now we're prepared for anyone.

OK, so that last bit is probably too cheap to be allowed. But regardless, The Deadly Dozen win.

 

[Aristotle]

Prep Time (The Authorititans)
"Oh man."
"This is...this is beautiful..."
"Where is this place?"
"...I...I..."
"I've seen better."

Midnighter's snark tears the other four away from their reverie. They all give him a bit of a grimace, but he's right. It's time to get to work.

Anarky begins his usual strategy talk. Already, his mind is working in overdrive, devising ways of taking out the enemy. But Norrin Radd's mind is elsewhere. He can see into the soul of these people. They are troubled men. The one called Aztek is filled with self-doubt and worry. The one called Anarky seems willing to sacrifice almost anything for what he would deem a greater good. The one called Midnighter...that is a dark, dark angel. And this Superman...he is a liar. He is a liar and a murderer and a boaster and a complainer and he is vicious and cruel and brutal.

Superman-Prime feels the eyes of the Surfer on him and turns. Their gazes meet, and Superman knows what the Surfer knows. He is ashamed, but his eyes plead with the Surfer to leave him this chance. I have failed my legacy and my name and my symbol, he knows, but here, with these men, I can be who I should be.

The Surfer nods reluctantly, and returns his attention to the leader of the team.

Later, as the team prepares for combat. The Surfer stares down a great corridor in Panoptichron. He knows what place he is in. He knows what he could do, given the chance. Behind him, he hears Anarky and Midnighter discussing their battles.

"I'll have to go low-tech, obviously, but there's nothing he can use here, as far as I can tell. Your guy has a healing factor, so you'll need to take that into account..."

Their voices drift off into his subconscious as Superman appears next to him.

"I could go back to my world, you know," muses the Surfer. "Back to before it was destroyed, before I failed. I could do something to stop him."

He looks at his comrade-in-arms. "Another chance to get it right, Superman," he sighs. "Another chance to fix my mistakes. What I wouldn't give to have that chance."

They stand in silence.

"But there are no such chances in our futures, it appears. We are not destined to change our destinies, only to live them out, as in some terrible performance, in which none of us has read the script, and no one can know the ending."

Superman is stone-faced.

"We should get ready to fight," he says. "The other team certainly is."

 

[Aristotle]

Prep Time (Deadpool's Harem)
"What the sprock are we gonna do now?" sulks Byakko. It has just been discovered that Black Alice's power comes with a little fine print that's going to make this battle decidedly difficult for Deadpool's Harem.

It seems that for Black Alice to choose a target for her power-stealing abilities, she must be able to see that target. Otherwise, it's completely random. What's more, since Panoptichron is outside time and space, she can't reach out and randomly take on a powerset that way either. She has no possible targets except for Thordis, and taking the powers of Thordis would leave Thordis in the cold.

"Deadpool, this is your team! Think of something!" Thordis bellows. Deadpool, however, has weightier concerns on his mind. My book survived low sales and being the red-headed stepchild of a company that seems to live for nothing but its bottom line, but it couldn't survive a poorly conceived X-over that probably didn't really change anything at all. What a load of horse-hockey.

"We are without a full team, Deadpool!" Thordis continues. "You need to help us figure out what to do!" I wish I'd kept that Venom symbiont in me, Deadpool muses. Bob from Hydra could have gotten one too. And Weasel. And Nate. And then we could've been one big happy Venom team. TEAM VENOM! Maybe Nicieza can convince Quesada to publish a TEAM VENOM book.

"You are useless," Thordis snarls, and stalks away. This guy writing me isn't as good as Nicieza, ponders Deadpool.

 

[LadyVader]

Haha, it amuses me that you'd think my team would ask Deadpool of all people for ideas.

Oh and Alice doesn't need to see her magical hero of choice. She just needs to concentrate. In the Helmet of Fate series she just thought of Giganta and poof, she had Giganta's powers.

 

[Aristotle]

Haha, it amuses me that you'd think my team would ask Deadpool of all people for ideas.

All part of the joke. I felt that it would be wrong to write Deadpool's team without a joke.

Oh and Alice doesn't need to see her magical hero of choice. She just needs to concentrate. In the Helmet of Fate series she just thought of Giganta and poof, she had Giganta's powers.

In Birds of Prey, Oracle is struggling to teach her how to not need line-of-sight, and she's almost reached it. It appears that Helmet of Fate was a mistake, and should be chalked up to lack of editorial oversight. However, it's of no consequence--outside time and space, Alice can't call on anything.

 

[Aristotle]

Prep Time (final notes)
Anarky's going to know about Black Alice's weakness, and he's going to know all about the Duke of Oil, thanks to his mastery of basically all information on DCU Earth. He's hacked the JLA computers before. This is a guy who probably knew as much, or close to as much, as Max Lord's Checkmate did before the Infinite Crisis. He will instruct his team accordingly.

Meanwhile, Deadpool's Harem will be frantically looking for a way to manipulate the tech of Panoptichron so that Alice can be of use, but they will fail. The Duke's technopathy is NOT going to be good enough to hack this tech. Their strategy is going to be to protect Black Alice for as long as possible, because she's now their EXTREMELY weak link--essentially, powerless. Byakko will go intangible and make Deadpool, Duke, and Alice intangible with her. They will stay close to Thordis so that if Thordis goes down, Alice can take up her powers immediately.

 

[Aristotle]

Battle Time
Panoptichron is a massive battlefield, and without access to the technology within, it's going to be very difficult for either team to locate their opponents, and to actually catch up to them. Here, the Authorititans get a quick advantage. Silver Surfer's Cosmic Awareness and Anarky's heads-up computer display will show them exactly where their opponents are. Deadpool's Harem, on the other hand, will have to rely on Thordis' teleportation to find their opponents, while having Byakko keep the other team members, especially Black Alice, intangible and protected until the right moment.

Anarky examines the data coming from his computer, and starts issuing orders.

"Surfer, Superman, attack Thordis immediately. Surfer, you should be able to pick up her location easily, and lead Superman to her. She can't escape you, because you're both massively faster than she is. Take her out as quickly as possible, because she's dangerous."

"Aztek, Byakko's going to go intangible and keep the Duke, Deadpool, and Alice intangible with her so she can protect them. Thordis is teleporting, but she's keeping her team with her so that IF she falls, Alice can immediately know about it and steal her powers. Our job will be to separate them."

Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime are upon Thordis instantaneously, and her teleporting is put to an end. Behind them, Aztek arrives, intangible, and locates the intangible Byakko, Duke, and Alice. With the ubers tangled in combat, and Aztek pretending to also be fighting, Anarky steps out near Byakko and the regs as bait. Hoping to gain a quick advantage in a fight that's starting to look very bad, Byakko goes solid--and Aztek blasts her with every bit of force he can muster, sending her flying, and leaving her teammates fully tangible.

With Thordis fully occupied by the Surfer and Superman, Anarky attacks the Duke of Oil. Midnighter engages Deadpool. Aztek speeds off in the direction he knocked Byakko to finish off the fight. Black Alice hides in a corner, scared out of her wits. [At this point, I would like to say that it is truly a pleasure to see Black Alice uncomfortable, even if it's just fanfiction. I don't like goths, and I don't like Black Alice, and so I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank LadyVader for giving me this chance.]

Anarky vs. Duke of Oil
In a lot of battlefields, the Duke of Oil would have a big advantage in this fight, but in Panoptichron, the technology is just too advanced for his technopathy. Here, he's just a stretchy metal guy. Anarky switches off his onboard computer tech and goes in just as a human being with a couple gadgets. After a brief spar between the two, Anarky catches the Duke off-guard with a deft feint and a kick to the cranium, and follows it up by tossing a localized EMP dart. It strikes home and the Duke of Oil drops. Frantically, Anarky scans his onboard computer to find a location for Black Alice.

Midnighter vs. Deadpool
The two enhanced supersoldiers engage each other in combat wordlessly. It is a well-matched battle, but, as always in such an evenly matched battle with Midnighter, it will be decided by his prediction ability. He can project any move that Deadpool will make, and compensate for it. Eventually, he manages to take the Merc's swords, and with even greater effort, he separates Deadpool's head from Deadpool's body. And for good measure, he cuts off the limbs, too. He places each piece about twenty feet from each other, and runs around stomping on them and kicking them every time they try to ooze toward each other. It is, one imagines, the most cathartic experience that Midnighter has ever experienced.

 

[Aristotle]

Aztek vs. Byakko
If Byakko could get close to Aztek, she'd quickly be able to gain the advantage on him, but he's fast enough that he can perpetually stay well enough away from her that he can avoid her density-manipulation powers, but close enough that he can take energy-blast potshots at her. Even if she could reach him to change his density, his intangibility would allow him to negate the effect. He can phase out long enough to shed the effects, phase back in, and keep blasting. Byakko goes down after simply being worn down.

Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime vs. Thordis
Thordis against either one of these two would be a long, drawn-out, difficult match. But Thordis against both of them? It's really no contest. She drags it out as long as she can, even teleporting away a couple times, but she can't stay away from Alice for too long, because Alice needs to know when she loses so she can take her powerset, and Alice needs to be protected.

Thordis can take a pretty big beating, but I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that there isn't a legal uber in this game that could stand up to the combined onslaught of Superman-Prime and Silver Surfer for very long. Thordis drops...

Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime vs. Thordis
...and just before Anarky reaches her, Black Alice is back in the game. She swats him aside and turns her attention to the two heavy hitters for the Authorititans. It's not going to be QUITE as tough of a fight for her, since her two opponents have taken a few hits themselves, but she's inexperienced with her newly acquired powers, never having wielded anything quite like them before, and however many hits they took, her opponents are still the Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime, two of the baddest assest ubers in the game. Alice gives a valiant fight, but she doesn't ever really have a chance.

Authorititans, 5-0.

 

[LadyVader]

- Maybe Duke Of Oil's technopathy isn't strong enough to control the entire system, but he can act localized. Find one cluster of teleporters and activate them. Find one camera and activate it to show him his oponents. He doesn't even need to conect to it. The machines just do what he says.

- "Hoping to gain a quick advantage in a fight that's starting to look very bad, Byakko goes solid" What could she possibly solve by going solid? She don't have no kryptonite laced swords! She isn't super strong/ IF she sees Thordis in trouble she can use her gravity powers for example or she can ghost some of Superman's flesh to the surrondings.

- I'm confused to how Anarky would get the slip on a guy who fought Connor Hawke, Oliver Queen and Mia Derden to a stalemate. Yeah he's an expert martial artist but he's just one guy.

- Midnighter vs Deadpool: What stops Deadpool from dropping a grenade and teleporting away if Midnighter gets a chance to steal his swords? By the way, dismembering my Wade? Oh boooy. It's on now!

- Aztek vs Byakko: Again, gravity powers. I don't care how fast Aztek is, he's not going to get a slip on my girl.

- I got no problem with the uber battles because you assume that Black Alice has nobody to channel in the Panoptichron except for Thordis. I will soon show you that is not the case.

 

[Aristotle]

- Maybe Duke Of Oil's technopathy isn't strong enough to control the entire system, but he can act localized. Find one cluster of teleporters and activate them. Find one camera and activate it to show him his oponents. He doesn't even need to conect to it. The machines just do what he says.

What possible precedent for this can you claim? What has he ever controlled that was on a level anywhere near Panoptichron?

- "Hoping to gain a quick advantage in a fight that's starting to look very bad, Byakko goes solid" What could she possibly solve by going solid? She don't have no kryptonite laced swords! She isn't super strong/ IF she sees Thordis in trouble she can use her gravity powers for example or she can ghost some of Superman's flesh to the surrondings.

Anarky supplies the bait, as noted in the writeup. If she could nail him quick, it would certainly be advantageous, and with Aztek apparently busy in the uber fight, she thinks she can get away with going solid just for a moment.

- I'm confused to how Anarky would get the slip on a guy who fought Connor Hawke, Oliver Queen and Mia Derden to a stalemate. Yeah he's an expert martial artist but he's just one guy.

All Anarky needs is a chance to toss a dart.

- Midnighter vs Deadpool: What stops Deadpool from dropping a grenade and teleporting away if Midnighter gets a chance to steal his swords? By the way, dismembering my Wade? Oh boooy. It's on now!

That doesn't seem to be Deadpool's way of fighting. He doesn't pussyfoot around. He fights a fight. As for dismembering him, that's really the only way to kill the guy. It's not even that easy to knock him out.

- Aztek vs Byakko: Again, gravity powers. I don't care how fast Aztek is, he's not going to get a slip on my girl.

There's no support for that. If she can never get close enough to him because he can dart out of range, she has no useful attack against him. And if she does get him, he can just go ghost.

- I got no problem with the uber battles because you assume that Black Alice has nobody to channel in the Panoptichron except for Thordis. I will soon show you that is not the case.

All battlefields are unpopulated, LV. There's no one here but us teams.

 

[LadyVader]

What possible precedent for this can you claim? What has he ever controlled that was on a level anywhere near Panoptichron?

Again, he doesn't need to take control of the entire Panoptichron. He doesn't need to scan other dimensions, teleport people, keep em in stasis etc etc etc. All he needs to do is turn on a couple of cameras and interface with them. That's it. If bugs and Heather can do it, he sure as hell can.

Might I also mention that you're the one who arbitrarly decided to not use Panoptichron tech. In other write-ups people are using it without any problems, or their conscience giving them trouble. I will too because that's one of Duke of Oil's basic skills. Control of machinery.

Anarky supplies the bait, as noted in the writeup. If she could nail him quick, it would certainly be advantageous, and with Aztek apparently busy in the uber fight, she thinks she can get away with going solid just for a moment.

She can do far more damage if she stays intangible with a solid weapon for instance, and somebody like Byakko, you can bet she wouldn't get sloppy.

All Anarky needs is a chance to toss a dart.

At a moving target? While being attacked?

That doesn't seem to be Deadpool's way of fighting. He doesn't pussyfoot around. He fights a fight. As for dismembering him, that's really the only way to kill the guy. It's not even that easy to knock him out.

He has no style of fighting. You think he'd carry all that weaponry on him without using it? And you'd think he'd hesistate to use the teleporter should he find himself defenseless? He's crazy, not ******ed.

There's no support for that. If she can never get close enough to him because he can dart out of range, she has no useful attack against him. And if she does get him, he can just go ghost.
Byakko sneaked up on Superman. You think she couldn't sneak up on Aztek? Besides, she can always phase from under ground, grab his leg and phase that armor right off him. A bit far fetched? Maybe, but not more so than the idea that "Oh, she's going to take the bait and go solid I tells ya!'

All battlefields are unpopulated, LV. There's no one here but us teams.

us teams... and our stuff. Black Alice doesn't channel just people you know.

 

[Harlekin]

As I recall, we are allowed to point out inaccuracies. As such, about Black Alice:

# The limit to the distance at which she can steal power of a target being is unknown, but potentially limitless as she borrowed Alan Scott's abilities during the prison breakouts while he was in space.
# Her only limit is that in order to choose a particular target she must be able to see him/her; otherwise, she receives a random magic-user's powers whenever she activates her ability.

So she's not entirely powerless, and there's a lot of vagueness surrounding her abilities.

 

[LadyVader]

Write-up posted...

 

[Aristotle]

So she's not entirely powerless, and there's a lot of vagueness surrounding her abilities.

When she channels Dr. Strange sometime, then I'll believe she doesn't have to be in the same reality as her target.

 

[Harlekin]

I was referring to the line of sight argument.

 

[XFanTim]

I think wikipedia is out of date on that point. Originally maybe she could only choose who she channeled if they were in her line of sight, but she has since developed the ability to channel whoever she wants.

I agree with Ari that she can't copy someone who is in another universe. But LV doesn't actually try to do that in her writeup (now posted above), so it's a moot point.

 

[Aristotle]

Objections to LadyVader's writeup:

- Aztek's equipment isn't magical, it's powered by 4th-dimensional energy. Alice has nothing to channel.
- In the uber battle, Thordis doesn't stand a chance. Superman-Prime is either highly resistant to magic, or immune, whether it comes from Mjolnir or anywhere else. SMP + Silver Surfer vs. Thordis is no contest.
- BYAKKO? Beats SUPERMAN? No. Superman will know she's coming from a mile away and ice her with heat vision. If the fight even lasts long enough for Byakko to get there.'
- And now Black Alice/Aztek is fast enough to get the best of Superman? Again, no.
- And NOW Byakko trumps the Power ****ing Cosmic?

I think the biggest problem is Black Alice channeling Aztek's helmet. It's not magic. Just because there are gods involved with Aztek's backstory, that doesn't mean it's magical. In fact, there is HEAVY technological influence on Aztek, and his armor is technological in nature. She just can't channel it, which leaves her lowers high and dry.

The ubers: with Black Alice out of the equation, Thordis drops immediately. That means Byakko is the OTHER sticking point. And I just don't buy that Byakko can get the drop on Silver Surfer and Superman-Prime. Hell, if they wanted, Surfer could blast Byakko away, and the two could just rush Thordis and manhandle her somewhere else that Byakko couldn't get to very quickly, and then deal with her later.

Bottom line, the whole thing depends on two very flimsy precepts: Black Alice channeling an artifact that isn't mystical so much as fourth-dimensional, and Byakko getting the drop on two of the fastest and deadliest ubers in the game.

 

[XFanTim]

Superman will know she's coming from a mile away and ice her with heat vision.

After that will he melt her with his arctic breath?t:

 

[LadyVader]

Objections to LadyVader's writeup:

- Aztek's equipment isn't magical, it's powered by 4th-dimensional energy. Alice has nothing to channel.
Every single description I found of his equipment, even those in the comics, says it's a miracle of occult engineering. Basic definition of occult? Relating to magical powers and activities. Not to mention all of the descriptions that say it's basically "a magical power suit". So every body who ever read Aztek and made a bio on him is wrong and you're right? Furthermore they need magic to power the thing. It is a a piece of mystical armor that belonged to a god. Much like Wonder Woman's lasso...
- In the uber battle, Thordis doesn't stand a chance. Superman-Prime is either highly resistant to magic, or immune, whether it comes from Mjolnir or anywhere else. SMP + Silver Surfer vs. Thordis is no contest.
I never said Thordis would use magic against Superman Prime, but that she would use Silver Surfer's own powers on him, and while he's dazed out from a blow of full cosmic power she can focus solely on the Surfer.

And come on. Thordis is a female version of Thor. That still means she is wicked powerful and can move with the speed of light, and let's not forget the Mjolnir's wide range of powers: magical bolts that transport people away, opening dimensional rifts and portals, force fields, healing, anti matter particles etc. Not to mention it can produce its own cosmic energy.

- BYAKKO? Beats SUPERMAN? No. Superman will know she's coming from a mile away and ice her with heat vision. If the fight even lasts long enough for Byakko to get there.'
Uh, Byakko did sneak up on Superman in his own comic book. Sneaked up as in he had absolutely no idea somebody was in the same room with him and he wasn't even distracted.

- And now Black Alice/Aztek is fast enough to get the best of Superman? Again, no.

As I already mentioned, he was at the time incapacitated by Byakko's powers. Her powers work on Super-people, as evidenced by the panel where she decks Cir-el. Obviously this'd be harder but all she needs to do is bind Superman on the ground for a few seconds until Black Alice phases from under him and puts on the helmetp

- And NOW Byakko trumps the Power ****ing Cosmic?

the ****ing Power Cosmic which is absorbed by Mjolnir you mean.

I think the biggest problem is Black Alice channeling Aztek's helmet. It's not magic. Just because there are gods involved with Aztek's backstory, that doesn't mean it's magical. In fact, there is HEAVY technological influence on Aztek, and his armor is technological in nature. She just can't channel it, which leaves her lowers high and dry.

His technology needs MAGIC to access the 4th dimension. That's how I see it and that's how everybody has ever saw it. When Aztek loses the helmet in his own series he still has armor but he can't use it any more.

 

[Aristotle]

I never understood the helmet to be magical in any way. Occult engineering does NOT necessarily imply magic so much as generic supernatural. To me, that always meant technology. I've never seen a bio or a description that described it as magical. Not in his comics, not anywhere else that I can recall.

I'm sure Thordis can put up a fine fight, but do you really want to be suggesting that your character can take on two of the biggest bricks in the game and beat them handily? That sounds tuber to me. I think there's a reason Thordis is uber, and not tuber, and I think it's because Thordis isn't that powerful.

Byakko never snuck up on this Superman, and regardless, when I was brought into the League, it was explained to me that the DTL was a place to correct the kinds of ridiculous overwriting done in comics (The Hulk vs. Superman shouldn't have been written that way!) and competing for the best "fan-approved" outcomes of battles. Byakko sneaking up on Superman seems like on of those story-driven injustices. Superman can hear a silenced sniper shot from halfway around the world, or halfway across the galaxy in some outlandish stories, and he can't hear Byakko?

And why is the helmet so hard for Superman to deal with? He can see through anything but lead, he can look right through the thing.

As for Black Alice channeling any magical artifact (not admitting that Aztek's helmet is one): didn't she channel the powers of Wonder Woman, and just get the lasso powers along with the rest? That means she would have to channel Aztek himself to get the power of his helmet, and since he himself is not a magical being, she can't do that. Adding to that the fact that the helmet is not magical in nature, there's clearly no way Alice can make that move.

 

[LadyVader]

Quetzalcoatl Battle-Suit & Helmet: Aztek's battle-suit and helmet are masterpieces of occult engineering. The ancient battle helmet provides the focus for the four dimensional power source. This power source can only be recharged via special rituals.

Powered by fourth dimensional energies, the Aztek war suit is a conglomeration of magic and technology giving its bearer an array of powers such as super strength, super speed, super hearing, telescopic vision, x-ray vision, infrared vision, invisibility and flight.

A young man named Uno was raised by the Q Society, a secret organization to be the champion of the Aztec god Quetzalcoatl to battle their enemy, the Aztec god Tezcatlipoca. He was at the peak of human abilities both physically and mentally. He was given a magical suit of armor that bestows super strength, super speed, super hearing, telescopic vision, x-ray vision, infrared vision, invisibility and flight upon the wearer. His base of operations was the city of Vanity, a strange town that had bizarre architecture, and the highest suicide rate in the DC Universe version of the United States.

Cambridge definition of occult
relating to magical powers and activities, such as those of witchcraft and astrology:
She claims to have occult powers, given to her by some mysterious spirit.

Black Alice can pretty much channel anything with the word magic (or occult ) in it. She channelled the magical golden lasso of Wonder Woman and Alan Scott's power ring.

 

[LadyVader]

'm sure Thordis can put up a fine fight, but do you really want to be suggesting that your character can take on two of the biggest bricks in the game and beat them handily? That sounds tuber to me. I think there's a reason Thordis is uber, and not tuber, and I think it's because Thordis isn't that powerful.

Did you miss the part where I said she eventually succumbs to Silver Surfer's powers? She has to keep them busy for at least half an hour, because that's how long Black Alice can hold on to the helmet, and given her wide array of powers, I think Thordis can do that.

Byakko never snuck up on this Superman, and regardless, when I was brought into the League, it was explained to me that the DTL was a place to correct the kinds of ridiculous overwriting done in comics (The Hulk vs. Superman shouldn't have been written that way!) and competing for the best "fan-approved" outcomes of battles. Byakko sneaking up on Superman seems like on of those story-driven injustices. Superman can hear a silenced sniper shot from halfway around the world, or halfway across the galaxy in some outlandish stories, and he can't hear Byakko?

Byakko's appearance in that issue was nothing like Amazo's appearance in that Batman book where Bats disabled him by putting batarangs in his years It was one of the first appearances of the character, therefore it was supposed to show us what she can do, not exaggerate. When she is in ghost form, that's exactly what she is, a ghost.

Anyway, this is how I saw that particular battle go down.

Byakko and Alice are in ghost form in the ground, Byakko raises her head above the surface, flicks on her gravity powers and drags Superman Prime down. Black Alice then puts on his head the helmet which SCREWS with his head because that's what it's supposed to do to anybody who is not TRAINED to wear it. It contains the memories of all the past warriors who wore it which are now inside his head. Sight has nothing to do with it.